Estes Mean Machine Question

Hi guys. I have a good condition mean machine rocket, one of the older models that doesn't have an option for E engines, just sized for "D" which is underwhelming for this big rocket - barely makes tree canopy height!

Is there a simple way to get a higher impulse, E style/power engine to fit this D-mount? Would my best bet be to cut it down at the base and redo with a new mount and redo the fins? An E would fit diameter wise, but stick out more and likely harm the stability...

Thanks

Won't these fit?

E15-4,7 Aerotech
E15W-P Aerotech
E18-4,8 Aerotech
E28-4,7 Aerotech
E30-4,7 Aerotech
E30-4,7 Estes

EDIT: Just ran an OpenRocket sim and the E30-7 is perfect!

My choice would be an Aerotech E20-7 single use, they're $20 for a two pack and a good bridge from Estes black powder motors to composite motors.

Mean Machines fly amazingly well on composite motors, I've seen one modified for a 29mm F. Amazingly enough, it didn't buckle.

majordude said:

Won't these fit?

E15-4,7 Aerotech
E15W-P Aerotech
E18-4,8 Aerotech
E28-4,7 Aerotech
E30-4,7 Aerotech
E30-4,7 Estes

EDIT: Just ran an OpenRocket sim and the E30-7 is perfect!

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Yea, this sounds like a job for the 24/40 case

cerving said:

My choice would be an Aerotech E20-7 single use, they're $20 for a two pack and a good bridge from Estes black powder motors to composite motors.

Mean Machines fly amazingly well on composite motors, I've seen one modified for a 29mm F. Amazingly enough, it didn't buckle.

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Thanks majordude and cerving, great news that there is something that will fit and have some power. :surprised: A lot of power. The rocket weighs 5.75oz. Would an E20/30 take it over 1000 feet? 2000 feet? Very tempting, that would really put some life into the rocket. :smile:

Huh, a reloadable engine - neat. I'm guessing one buys black powder and some sort of delay powder, or maybe there are packets to buy?

DizWolf said:

Yea, this sounds like a job for the 24/40 case

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jumna said:

Thanks majordude and cerving, great news that there is something that will fit and have some power. :surprised: A lot of power. The rocket weighs 5.75oz. Would an E20/30 take it over 1000 feet? 2000 feet? Very tempting, that would really put some life into the rocket. :smile:

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1080' with an E30
1118' with an E20

I am so going E30. Thanks majordude. I'll need longer launch wires. Wonder if I can still use the estes controller, or would I need something different with higher voltage or something?

I googled up reloads, and see it's three packs of reloads that go into the reuseable engine. More versatility, but wouldn't want to lose the engine!

Say, where do you find these powerhouses 2 for $20?

cerving said:

My choice would be an Aerotech E20-7 single use, they're $20 for a two pack and a good bridge from Estes black powder motors to composite motors.

Mean Machines fly amazingly well on composite motors, I've seen one modified for a 29mm F. Amazingly enough, it didn't buckle.

Click to expand...

jumna said:

Huh, a reloadable engine - neat. I'm guessing one buys black powder and some sort of delay powder, or maybe there are packets to buy?

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All part of the reload kit, which comes with enough stuff to fire it three times for somewhere around $16-20

https://www.siriusrocketry.biz/ishop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=36_45_46


They do need a 12 volt launch system, but that's easy enough to build

I have used Aerotech E11's and E18's in my Mean Machine with very satisfying results. My only mod was using 6 inch coupler stock to give those joints a little more "flex" resistance. A few more thoughts:

Aerotech composites need more amps than a standard Estes controller provides to light reliably. I've read where Estes has successfully tested their 29mm single use composites with their E controller (6V/4AA) but I'm lucky enough to fly with my clubs 12V/mega amp set-up.

I think a 4 foot 3/16 in. diameter launch rod is the minimum recommended for the MM; again, I fly off the clubs 6 foot 1/4 in. rod. Woops, forgot about that mod, 1/4 in. lugs added.

Hope this helps.

List price on a 2 pack of E20's is $20.99, hobbylinc.com sells them for $13.99/2 but you have a hazmat charge. Our local Aerotech MPR dealer (Pegasus Hobbies in Montclair) sells them at list.

jumna said:

Say, where do you find these powerhouses 2 for $20?

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E20's aren't hazmat, just 3rd class ground (still, some shipping). Estes sonic igniters can do 6V, not Aerotech, but aren't highly regarded.

The E9 is a pretty fun motor, long burn, question is is there any differences between the older Mean Machine and the E powered one other than the position of the thrust ring and probably the length of the motor tube? And I think a 24/40 RMS case with an E weighs more than a D12 and the Fs for that case weigh at least as much as the E9. Blackpowder weighs lots more than the matching composite but the paper casings don't weigh much.

I've built both the old version and the new E powered ones. The main differences are the twist-lock mid body coupler and a longer motor hook.

As for motor weight, the D12-3 shows 13.8 calibers of stability, an F35W 10.94. I don't think CG/CP will be an issue

majordude said:

1080' with an E30
1118' with an E20

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With or without rounded fins??? :rofl:

gdjsky01 said:

With or without rounded fins??? :rofl:

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At nearly 300 mph, if you're not careful there may not be fins

Awesome. I have the bigger launch rod already, so I'll just need to track down an E approved launch controller, or make a homebrewed equivalent. Thanks for the advice guys.

gdjsky01 said:

With or without rounded fins??? :rofl:

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EXACTLY. :wink:

I CHAD stage mine, D12-0 to D12-5. Just use scotch tape, and tape a D12-0 to the bottom of the D12-5 I do wrap masking tape around the D12-5, and the end of the motor mount, as you have to push the motor hook out of the way for the D12-0.
Mike

E12-0 to E12-6 is tons of fun with the Mean Machine.

mikeyd said:

I CHAD stage mine...

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Oooh! And old school playa! ("Cheap And Dirty" description... SNORE News, circa 1980?)

mikeyd said:

I CHAD stage mine, D12-0 to D12-5. ....

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That gets AC/DC's "Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap" running thru my head, sadly enough! Never heard of CHAD before, but I've chadded before and will chad again. If I hadn't ordered the E20's I'd be seriously tempted, and still am anyways to try that. Always liked multi-staging, unless that top engine doesn't burn. I had a Commanche do that once, and that made a nice hole on impact....

At the last club launch, I saw a Mean Machine fold in half under power. It was boosting on a big G motor (G64?) and the stresses were just too great. From what I understood, it was not the first such flight either.

If you decide to use the Aerotech 24/40 Reloadable Motor System (RMS) you will have to file down the forward end of the motor clip for it to fit into the stock Estes D sized motor mount. The body of the 24/40 is the same length as a Estes D motor (2.718"), but the forward closure has the delay well that extends forward. The delay well is 0.710" diameter and will fit inside the thrust ring of the Estes motor mount. The problem is that the motor clip extends inside the ID of the motor clip and will block the forward closure from fitting into the thrust ring. Use a rat tail file to file the clip back so it is down to at least the ID of the thrust ring.

The other thing you need to know is to not trust the motor clip to hold a RMS case in the rocket. If it kicks out at 1,000' you'll probably never see it again. I use a small piece of wire and wrap it around the nozzle and motor clip to make sure the clip can't open and let the motor kick out at ejection.

+1 on that, had one eject at about 1000'. I got lazy and didn't zip tie it to the clip (my favorite backup motor retention). Amazingly enough, somebody actually found it the same day... I looked for about and hour and gave up.

Handeman said:

The other thing you need to know is to not trust the motor clip to hold a RMS case in the rocket. If it kicks out at 1,000' you'll probably never see it again. I use a small piece of wire and wrap it around the nozzle and motor clip to make sure the clip can't open and let the motor kick out at ejection.
View attachment 128061

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E18-10 will put it up to 1217....and do it loud with a lot of smoke. That is a killer little 24mm motor.

Also, with the 24/40 case you can strap a F24 in the back and do close to 1500

paul.nortness said:

E18-10 will put it up to 1217....and do it loud with a lot of smoke. That is a killer little 24mm motor.

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That's pretty impressive!

mikeyd said:

I CHAD stage mine, D12-0 to D12-5. Just use scotch tape, and tape a D12-0 to the bottom of the D12-5 I do wrap masking tape around the D12-5, and the end of the motor mount, as you have to push the motor hook out of the way for the D12-0.
Mike

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Underpowered long, skinny or drag-stabilized models (e.g. saucers) work very well CHAD staged.

E20 is identical to E15..as a matter of fact, the new E15 is actually an E20.

E20 (or E15) motors have MORE Total Impulse than E30 motors (see test data on NAR website).

E20 motors were created and packed in twin packs to hang next to Estes motors as a "drop in" replacement for D12 motors AND to use existing Estes E controllers (hence the twin lead igniters instead of Copperheads).

LW Bercini said:

Underpowered long, skinny or drag-stabilized models (e.g. saucers) work very well CHAD staged.

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Don't be so sure of the saucers. They do have a CP and hanging another motor can cause them to skywrite just like any other rocket, until the motor stages. (don't ask how I know that)