Will a "stock" Aerotech Mirage handle an H?

I have an unbuilt Mirage and the only real modification I think I am going to do is add and Estes motor retainer and drop the metal clip Aerotech packed.

Will this handle an H?

Not sure, but guessing yes. I do remember needing to remove the motor block, scouring pad for a heat sink with the baffle to take anything longer than a 29/40-120 casing.

Rest is up to how well you build it.

Yes. A Mirage will hande an H.

I assume plan to use the Pro Series screw-on Estes 29mm Motor Retainer Set instead of the AT metal clip retainer. That will work just fine.

Bob

I used to have a stretched Mirage and I flew it often on H180s and H220s. Other than not installing the baffle (and whatever else may have been needed to simply hold a longer motor) it was stock. She was a sweet flier. Miss that bird.

My guess is that it would handle an H73 fine, but an H128 might be a little "dicey" for my tastes. That's just me. YMMV.

So, you could cert with it if you left out the thrust ring and the cooling mesh and the motor hook. Those 3 items in the AT kits prevent you from going to anything bigger than the 29mm Hobby Line case.

Greg

It is TTW fins, right? If so, should be no prob.

Yes! I killed mine after 97 flights on a I-200 and too much dogbarf. The g's packed the chute and in cored in. It was like the family pet. Only the fins and engine case got recycled.

fyrwrxz said:

Yes! I killed mine after 97 flights on a I-200 and too much dogbarf. The g's packed the chute and in cored in. It was like the family pet. Only the fins and engine case got recycled.

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**97** flights?!? That is awesome. I'm grateful when one of mine gets to 9!

GregGleason said:

So, you could cert with it if you left out the thrust ring and the cooling mesh and the motor hook. Those 3 items in the AT kits prevent you from going to anything bigger than the 29mm Hobby Line case.

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Leave out the baffle too? Okay.

majordude said:

Leave out the baffle too? Okay.

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Correct.

Greg

BTW, the weak point of the Mirage is not going to be the fin can for higher thrust motors, it's the long airframe. That puts a lot of stress on the airframe and the airframe will want to flex (and it will to varying degrees) and put the greatest amount of stress will concentrate somewhere in the middle. For a motor with a high, average impulse, the airframe could potentially kink and fail.



Greg

GregGleason said:

BTW, the weak point of the Mirage is not going to be the fin can for higher thrust motors, it's the long airframe. That puts a lot of stress on the airframe and the airframe will want to flex (and it will to varying degrees) and put the greatest amount of stress will concentrate somewhere in the middle. For a motor with a high, average impulse, the airframe could potentially kink and fail.

Greg

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Yup! My stretched Mirage wobbled like an Olympic javelin in flight. I would wonder "is this the flight where it finally folds over?". I lost it before I got to that fateful day LOL.

I read that someone lined the rocket with body tube couplers and made it stronger for larger engines.

Yes- I used longer couplers than came with the kit and real wood bulkheads. It's just dead air in the payload section and you can convert it to dual deploy real easy with another coupler section. You can also cut it down a bit as it's overstable, but watch your motor mass at the back end, those plastic fins are dense, but hold up well. Thin CA in and out to stiffen things up a bit-sand back to fit. Last trick was to burnish the longer coupler interfaces with graphite powder. Hard to believe I flew that bird for over a decade.

majordude said:

I read that someone lined the rocket with body tube couplers and made it stronger for larger engines.

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That helps. Adding a wrap or two of figerglass helps as well (probably a better choice). The coupler may be the weak link in either case. Strengthening the coupler from the inside (fiberglass or another inner coupler).

As to how much is necessary for what size motor - no clue. Someone pushed the envelope before I am sure.

I can't find Aerotech 2.6" couplers in stock anywhere. Semroc makes a 2.6" tube and 4" couplers (instead of Aerotech's 6"). I wonder if the Semrock couplers will fit inside the Mirage?

You can get 34" coupler tubing from BMS and cut your own size. You can also get Blue Tube couplers, or fiberglass couplers. 2.6" is a standard airframe size, so most everything fits.

majordude said:

I can't find Aerotech 2.6" couplers in stock anywhere. Semroc makes a 2.6" tube and 4" couplers (instead of Aerotech's 6"). I wonder if the Semrock couplers will fit inside the Mirage?

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majordude said:

I can't find Aerotech 2.6" couplers in stock anywhere. Semroc makes a 2.6" tube and 4" couplers (instead of Aerotech's 6"). I wonder if the Semrock couplers will fit inside the Mirage?

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From an AeroTech rocket I had a while back, I measured the OD as 2.657". The Semroc lists their airframe OD as 2.600". So this may not match up. You may be able to buy AeroTech couplers directly from them, and reference stock number 12606 for the 2.6" coupler. Check their customer service.

Greg

+1 on BMS-you'll also note they have the really wierd 1.9" tube coupler stock for the smaller Aerotech birds. I butcher Aerotech kits with great regularity.

I certed a rocekteer on a H with her mirage. It was stock except for you must remove the baffle and steel wool-otherwise there isn't enough room for the motor. The original design is for a hobby line case which is too small for any H to fit in it. You can leave the clip and just wrap tape around it, or consider an aeropack. After all, why put a plastic retainer on something you want to fly high power?

rick

Yep...standard 2.6" couplers and payload bays work perfectly with Aerotech airframes! I prefer getting the 34" length coupler stock from BMS and then cutting to length as I need it.

Cheers,
Michael

iqsy59 said:

Yep...standard 2.6" couplers and payload bays work perfectly with Aerotech airframes! I prefer getting the 34" length coupler stock from BMS and then cutting to length as I need it.

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Whatchu talkin' 'bout, Willis?

I didn't see that. If that exists, I can line the interior with it!

Oh, and what is wrong with the Estes engine lock? It seems rock solid with G's (so I can't imagine an H would test it's limits. I think I got two for $6 instead of one AeroPack for $20+!

[20 minutes later...]

Just looked up BMS. I had no idea they sold tubing.

Is this what I want?

C80-34 (34" T80 or T80H coupler stock)?

majordude said:

Whatchu talkin' 'bout, Willis?

I didn't see that. If that exists, I can line the interior with it!

Oh, and what is wrong with the Estes engine lock? It seems rock solid with G's (so I can't imagine an H would test it's limits. I think I got two for $6 instead of one AeroPack for $20+!

[20 minutes later...]

Just looked up BMS. I had no idea they sold tubing.

Is this what I want?

C80-34 (34" T80 or T80H coupler stock)?

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That's it. It's also perfect for repairing those dreaded zippers that are caused when the ejection charge blows at ignition, but lets not go there...

Cheers,
Michael

Do yourself a favor.
If you want to fly high power,
then build high power.
Get an all fiberglass kit from someone who does them right, Wildman, Rocketry Warehouse, Madcow.
They're not much more money than a paper kraft tube kit from a big name that does a lot of advertizing, like the one you have.
The difference is what will eventually end the rockets life.
With the fiberglass rocket, it's end will never be because of thrust or water.
You'll never ask the question your asking.
Teddy

onebadhawk said:

Do yourself a favor. If you want to fly high power, then build high power.

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Ted, with all due respect, there are some people that love to make their 1972 Saab 96's limp along until 2013 and others that say, WTF, just get a Toyota, it always works.

I get more enjoyment pushing an inferior rocket to greater heights than flying a high performance rocket with a governor on the throttle.

It's the challenge that drives me.

cvanc said:

Yup! My stretched Mirage...

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Good lord, how long was this thing?

majordude said:

Oh, and what is wrong with the Estes engine lock? It seems rock solid with G's (so I can't imagine an H would test it's limits. I think I got two for $6 instead of one AeroPack for $20+!

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Plastic might work for a few G's and smaller rockets. Yes, areopacks are more expensive, but you get what you pay for. H's are more powerful then G's.
Are you willing to risk your expensive cases for $14 difference?
Do you have experience doing so?

I could be mistaken; but I seem to remember watching a Mirage fly on an H a few years back. I think it survived without any damage.

+1 on Aero Packs... It is a little more expensive, but well worth the cost (plus once you have a cap, you can save a few bucks, by just buying the bases and reusing the cap on your other rockets).

H_Rocket said:

Good lord, how long was this thing?

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Uhhh... kinda ridiculously long. Here are some pics from 1998 when it was in its' prime. Gloss black Monokote tubes, metal flake black nose, metal flake fins, chrome accents. 'Twas a good looking rocket, indeed.

These look like it was on an H180, maybe?

rocketgeek101 said:

+1 on Aero Packs... It is a little more expensive, but well worth the cost (plus once you have a cap, you can save a few bucks, by just buying the bases and reusing the cap on your other rockets).

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Hmmm. None of the AeroPacks seem to be a perfect fit for Aerotech tubing:

https://www.apogeerockets.com/Building_Supplies/Motor_Retainers_Hooks/Screw-on_Retainers_29mm