Estes S.S. Cassiopeia: Satisfying unrequited love
- Thread starter Marc_G
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The downscale will accept 18 mm standard engines or 13 km with adaptor. Initial estimate around 300 feet with A10-3T or around 500 feet with B6-4.
plastic_gorilla
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Dad: What are you doing in there? Me: Soaking my decals! Just a minute!
My wife, upon hearing a rhythmic sound coming from me in the basement: "What are you doing down there?"
Me: "Polishing my cone."
Wife: "Oh, that's what they call it these days..."
Sorry guys, haven't had time to post about the downscale build. Busy work week and such. But the build is more or less done. I will catch up with pics soon.
Me: "Polishing my cone."
Wife: "Oh, that's what they call it these days..."
Sorry guys, haven't had time to post about the downscale build. Busy work week and such. But the build is more or less done. I will catch up with pics soon.
modeltrains
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Having downscale available could lend itself to some forced perspective image creation.
That MonoKote trim film is an idea.
That MonoKote trim film is an idea.
Here is the Rocksim file I made for the downscale:
View attachment SS Cassiopeia third try BT20 Downscale.rkt
In bulding it I made some small alterations such as what type of centering rings, but it's basically faithful and has the fin template I actually used, which was not a direct scale of the original, since the scale of the body tubes was different from the scale of the ringfin, as mentioned above.
View attachment SS Cassiopeia third try BT20 Downscale.rkt
In bulding it I made some small alterations such as what type of centering rings, but it's basically faithful and has the fin template I actually used, which was not a direct scale of the original, since the scale of the body tubes was different from the scale of the ringfin, as mentioned above.
Parts lined up, so you can see how everything will go. I left room on the aft end for a motor to go minimum diameter in the BT20 outer tube, friction fit, with a quarter inch overhang. Here's the dry fit:
Then rings glued:
Then rings glued:
When putting on the rear outer body tube, I was worried about glue getting into the area where the motor would be, so I used one of those engine block marking guide tubes as a protector. I inserted it as if it was an engine, put glue in from "above" (forward) using a q-tip on a stick, then shoved in the inner tube with pre-glued-on centering ring.
The centering ring pushed glue aft, and excess glue went inside the protector tube as I planned, leaving no excess glue to muddy the side of the tube section where the motor will be!
Notice the glue inside the yellow protector tube. Also, notice how I used an angle aluminum section to keep all the glued on outer tubes lined up while the glue dried.
The centering ring pushed glue aft, and excess glue went inside the protector tube as I planned, leaving no excess glue to muddy the side of the tube section where the motor will be!
Notice the glue inside the yellow protector tube. Also, notice how I used an angle aluminum section to keep all the glued on outer tubes lined up while the glue dried.
Meanwhile, I cut fins based on my "freehand-designed adjusted downscale fin template" as printed out from Rocksim.
The fins are made out of two pieces of wood, just like the original, butt-end glued together with a small amount of carpenters wood glue. I did the gluing on a glass shelf, gave them 15 minutes to set up, then gently pushed the glued pieces to the side. Excess glue stuck to the glass, and the fins with minimal extra glue slid over.
To strengthen the fins, I decided to paper them and do the thin CA soak method. I was too lazy that day to spray #77 spray adhesive onto a piece of printer paper, so I used some on-hand adhesive label paper. It's the 3M kind that has "no-show-through" black backing. I laid the glued dried fins on, avoiding the root edge, and trimmed with a hobby knife. Flip fin, repeat. Do another two just like this.
Not shown: I then took a small amount of carpenter's wood glue and coated the root edge and the exposed wood not label-covered with it, wiping off excess. Then, I allowed the fins to dry thoroughly before the next step.
The next step: in a well ventilated area, I put the fins onto a Ziploc bag (which came from SEMROC, but that's beside the point). CA doesn't stick to this kind of plastic very well. Using a q-tip, I swabbed excess thin CA around the paper. It soaks pretty well through, and into the wood. I feel using label paper instead of lightly tacked computer paper doesn't work "quite as well" but it still works well enough. I allowed the tops of all the fins to cure. About an hour later, I cautiously flipped the fins. Some CA had wicked to the underside and was still wet where it was in contact with the plastic. I swabbed the second side of the fins like the first, and called it a day.
Next day, I took the fins off the plastic (no problem, very little sticking, and what sticking there was, peeled easily). A light touch with 320 grit sandpaper in small circular motions made the fins baby butt smooth. Seriously, very little work is needed, and I was done in under 10 minutes for all fins. And since I had pre-glued the root edges, I had no worries about the wood glue not soaking into the wood fibers. Here's the result:
You can see the backing of the paper showing through... the CA turns the white paper sort of transparent.
The fins are made out of two pieces of wood, just like the original, butt-end glued together with a small amount of carpenters wood glue. I did the gluing on a glass shelf, gave them 15 minutes to set up, then gently pushed the glued pieces to the side. Excess glue stuck to the glass, and the fins with minimal extra glue slid over.
To strengthen the fins, I decided to paper them and do the thin CA soak method. I was too lazy that day to spray #77 spray adhesive onto a piece of printer paper, so I used some on-hand adhesive label paper. It's the 3M kind that has "no-show-through" black backing. I laid the glued dried fins on, avoiding the root edge, and trimmed with a hobby knife. Flip fin, repeat. Do another two just like this.
Not shown: I then took a small amount of carpenter's wood glue and coated the root edge and the exposed wood not label-covered with it, wiping off excess. Then, I allowed the fins to dry thoroughly before the next step.
The next step: in a well ventilated area, I put the fins onto a Ziploc bag (which came from SEMROC, but that's beside the point). CA doesn't stick to this kind of plastic very well. Using a q-tip, I swabbed excess thin CA around the paper. It soaks pretty well through, and into the wood. I feel using label paper instead of lightly tacked computer paper doesn't work "quite as well" but it still works well enough. I allowed the tops of all the fins to cure. About an hour later, I cautiously flipped the fins. Some CA had wicked to the underside and was still wet where it was in contact with the plastic. I swabbed the second side of the fins like the first, and called it a day.
Next day, I took the fins off the plastic (no problem, very little sticking, and what sticking there was, peeled easily). A light touch with 320 grit sandpaper in small circular motions made the fins baby butt smooth. Seriously, very little work is needed, and I was done in under 10 minutes for all fins. And since I had pre-glued the root edges, I had no worries about the wood glue not soaking into the wood fibers. Here's the result:
You can see the backing of the paper showing through... the CA turns the white paper sort of transparent.
No worries. Looks like a good flight on A3-4T, though the Rocksim file doesn't include some draggy elements and you may find the delay is a bit long.
Next up: Attach the fins.
What can I say... double glue joints, standard technique, using a fin gluing guide I built.
In this picture you can see I also cut and attached the dowel support fins to which I had pre-glued some barbeque skewer dowels, that came 50 to a pack for $2 at the grocery store, with pre-sharpened ends. Bamboo, I think. No special treatment yet on the support fins.
When everything was nice and solid I used double-glue technique with tape assist to glue down the dowels:
I need to take some more pictures. I'll continue tomorrow...
Here's a close up after removing the tape and allowing some Molding and Trim glue fillets to dry:
The ringfin was glued on with carpenter's wood glue and filleted with Titebond molding and trim glue:
Other than a bunch of finishing work, the model is complete:
I will be sealing/smoothing the dowel support fins, then hitting the model with some coats of Rustoleum auto Filler Primer. After that, I will be priming and painting with Createx Auto Air and Wicked lines of paints. The discs (on the fins and on the dowels) will be applied after painting... I'm going a slightly different way than with the full size bird.
Stay tuned.
The ringfin was glued on with carpenter's wood glue and filleted with Titebond molding and trim glue:
Other than a bunch of finishing work, the model is complete:
I will be sealing/smoothing the dowel support fins, then hitting the model with some coats of Rustoleum auto Filler Primer. After that, I will be priming and painting with Createx Auto Air and Wicked lines of paints. The discs (on the fins and on the dowels) will be applied after painting... I'm going a slightly different way than with the full size bird.
Stay tuned.
The full-scale SS Cassiopeia had a rough first flight. 
Frankly, the flight was doomed, apparently.
Now, keep in mind this design is inherently stable. I've simmed a few scales of it and get figures of 5-10 calibers of stability depending on scale and engine. So I'm pretty sure it's not a nose weight issue.
I flew her with the AMOREA club yesterday, and she blew her cone not 15 feet from the pad, as I gauge it. Even before that, it looked like she was pinwheeling or something. The B6-2 engine seemed more like a B6-minus 0.3. There absolutely wasn't a two second delay, not by a long shot. The engine looked just like any other spent B6 engine. She tumbled and took a hard fall onto the ground, and broke off her ringfin:
I was able to reattach it with some medium CA, clamps, and sheets of stick-resistant plastic:
But something interesting showed up on the launch photo:
The wire from the ignition system seems to have traveled up a ways with her! That would explain the odd dance she did, before the premature event with the engine.
On the field, I was really concerned about her apparent lack of stability as evidenced by the first flight, engine oddities aside, but now I understand what caused her to flip around. The wire/clip must have snagged on her ringfin, eventually ripping it off, causing a tumble. Not sure how it happened but next flight I will be careful to prevent a recurrence.
Frankly, the flight was doomed, apparently.
Now, keep in mind this design is inherently stable. I've simmed a few scales of it and get figures of 5-10 calibers of stability depending on scale and engine. So I'm pretty sure it's not a nose weight issue.
I flew her with the AMOREA club yesterday, and she blew her cone not 15 feet from the pad, as I gauge it. Even before that, it looked like she was pinwheeling or something. The B6-2 engine seemed more like a B6-minus 0.3. There absolutely wasn't a two second delay, not by a long shot. The engine looked just like any other spent B6 engine. She tumbled and took a hard fall onto the ground, and broke off her ringfin:
I was able to reattach it with some medium CA, clamps, and sheets of stick-resistant plastic:
But something interesting showed up on the launch photo:
The wire from the ignition system seems to have traveled up a ways with her! That would explain the odd dance she did, before the premature event with the engine.
On the field, I was really concerned about her apparent lack of stability as evidenced by the first flight, engine oddities aside, but now I understand what caused her to flip around. The wire/clip must have snagged on her ringfin, eventually ripping it off, causing a tumble. Not sure how it happened but next flight I will be careful to prevent a recurrence.
Dean B
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If I remember my mythology, Cassiopeia was punished for her vanity by being tied to a chair and made to circle the heavens. As I see it, your rocket was simply fulfilling its destiny!
Seriously, Marc, she's a beautiful rocket. I'm glad I got to see her in person.
Seriously, Marc, she's a beautiful rocket. I'm glad I got to see her in person.
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Marc, just an idea but might give you a cool picture, especially with that paint job.
Set the rocket up on a stick (like a dowel inside a spent engine casing.) Paint the stick flat black.
On a clear moonless night, prop the rocket up so you can focus your camera slightly upward at it, so that the background is sky (or at least no background light and no background objects that will pick up the flash.)
Set up your camera with flash and a tripod, preferably with a time.
Take a flash picture of the rocket with the sky in the background.
If it works, you get a flash picture of your rocket with a jet black background, since there is nothing behind the rocket to reflect the flash.
Key is a motionless rocket and a fixed camera--- doesn't come out nearly as well if you try to hold the camera in one hand and rocket on a stick in the other.
Set the rocket up on a stick (like a dowel inside a spent engine casing.) Paint the stick flat black.
On a clear moonless night, prop the rocket up so you can focus your camera slightly upward at it, so that the background is sky (or at least no background light and no background objects that will pick up the flash.)
Set up your camera with flash and a tripod, preferably with a time.
Take a flash picture of the rocket with the sky in the background.
If it works, you get a flash picture of your rocket with a jet black background, since there is nothing behind the rocket to reflect the flash.
Key is a motionless rocket and a fixed camera--- doesn't come out nearly as well if you try to hold the camera in one hand and rocket on a stick in the other.
krusty
Rocket Powered Kangaroo
Or do a time exposure and get the stars moving in the background!!!
https://photo.tutsplus.com/tutorials/shooting/quick-tip-how-to-capture-the-beauty-of-stars/ (Check out the tree and stars in step 3 :eyepop
Krusty
Sounds like a great idea!
meanwhile, I did a close examination of the ringfin and found the smoking gun. A section of it had two small cuts and the section between was sort of pulled out. This is where the ignition clip yanked on the ringfin and ripped it off.
Meanwhile the repairs are complete. Looking forward for another launch opportunity.
meanwhile, I did a close examination of the ringfin and found the smoking gun. A section of it had two small cuts and the section between was sort of pulled out. This is where the ignition clip yanked on the ringfin and ripped it off.
Meanwhile the repairs are complete. Looking forward for another launch opportunity.
skybuster
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Hahahahaha, wow, that's a good one! Lovin' the build by the way, the intro in your thread starter was great as well!
I took a day off to launch a few. The winds were a bit high so I was careful not to put anything too high up. And two school busses full of kids swamped the park right after I got set up. But I got a few launches in, including SS Cassiopeia.
This time, I was careful not to put the igniter clips where they might snag on the ringfin.
Liftoff:
Straight boost:
Successful deployment, despite the lines getting snagged on the discs on the dowels:
Recovery was successful, without any damage. The picture above looks a bit alarming but most of the descent had the body tube in a horizontal position. IT landed safely on soft grass, but even on hard packed earth it would have been fine, most likely.
Today's launch was on a B6-2. Next flight, it will be on a C6-3. I think from observing the flight that a C6-5 would be too long. The model is very draggy. But it's an excellent flyer, and gave a great straight boost despite 10 mile an hour winds.
I recommend this model to anyone interested in scifi style rockets. It was fun to build, offers lots of neat painting options, and flies nicely when not tethered to the pad like I did in first flight.
This time, I was careful not to put the igniter clips where they might snag on the ringfin.
Liftoff:
Straight boost:
Successful deployment, despite the lines getting snagged on the discs on the dowels:
Recovery was successful, without any damage. The picture above looks a bit alarming but most of the descent had the body tube in a horizontal position. IT landed safely on soft grass, but even on hard packed earth it would have been fine, most likely.
Today's launch was on a B6-2. Next flight, it will be on a C6-3. I think from observing the flight that a C6-5 would be too long. The model is very draggy. But it's an excellent flyer, and gave a great straight boost despite 10 mile an hour winds.
I recommend this model to anyone interested in scifi style rockets. It was fun to build, offers lots of neat painting options, and flies nicely when not tethered to the pad like I did in first flight.
modeltrains
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Recommendation taken.
Oh yeah, ya gotta do what Krusty and Babar said about photos.
Will have to try that here too!
Last edited:
I've finished the downscale, except for clear coat. I'll get a picture once I spray her.
modeltrains
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Drop just one letter, the r in spray, it we'd have a totally different topic here
which would then make finishing the downscale in to a mad scientist thing.
Build complete, other than clipping in a parachute.
A couple days ago I had a brief moment of not too windy / not too humid weather for spraying a gloss coat. I've only got inside pictures, because it's raining here at the moment.
Glory shot:
Nose close up (I'm wishing I had detailed with red instead of black... oh well...)
Those awesome Excelsior decals really look nice, and notice the "discs":
Other discs on the dowels:
Family Picture:
The main paint on the downscale is medium Aluminum Base by Createx Auto Air (on top of Auto Air / AutoBorne white). Gloss clear coat was Valspar high gloss lacquer.
A couple days ago I had a brief moment of not too windy / not too humid weather for spraying a gloss coat. I've only got inside pictures, because it's raining here at the moment.
Glory shot:
Nose close up (I'm wishing I had detailed with red instead of black... oh well...)
Those awesome Excelsior decals really look nice, and notice the "discs":
Other discs on the dowels:
Family Picture:
The main paint on the downscale is medium Aluminum Base by Createx Auto Air (on top of Auto Air / AutoBorne white). Gloss clear coat was Valspar high gloss lacquer.
Oh, yeah. The discs. They are sequins, source from Hobby Lobby.
Very sparkly. The perfect thing for sensor discs.
Very sparkly. The perfect thing for sensor discs.
krusty
Rocket Powered Kangaroo
Very nice
Krusty
Krusty
Thanks guys!
Dean- Maybe at the next AMOREA launch I'll bring them both for a side by side comparison!
Dean- Maybe at the next AMOREA launch I'll bring them both for a side by side comparison!
My mini S.S. Cassiopeia flew nicely on an A10-3T (using a 13-18 mm adaptor) this evening during a short launch at the park:
Got part of the launch:
And some shots of the ejection:
And a nice descent:
It's a great flier. Next time I'll send it up on a B6-4!
Got part of the launch:
And some shots of the ejection:
And a nice descent:
It's a great flier. Next time I'll send it up on a B6-4!
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