Keychain/Gum video cams... Is there a clear winner?

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K'Tesh

K'Tesh

.....OpenRocket's ..... "Chuck Norris"
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I'm hoping to build a clone of an Estes Cineroc, but I'd like to go with digital, rather than super 8 (if you can even find it anymore).

I've been seeing quite a few nice flight videos on YouTube, but too often, there's nothing said about the camera, other than keychain, or gum spy cams. Before pulling the trigger on any video camera, I'd like to know what people think is the best camera for a low power rocket. The less modification to the actual device, the happier I'd be.

Any clear winning designs out there? Oh, and links to instructions on creating a digital cineroc would be great too!

Thanks
K'Tesh
 
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That's easy... the keychain cams... either the Bayourat link that Dave gave you above, or find yer own on Ebay or Amazon or something like that...

Here's a handy link to discussions and information about all things keychain cam... https://chucklohr.com/808/index.shtml Tons of information there!

I'd skip the "gumpack" cams, "pen" cams, "lighter" cams, and other such stuff... there's a thread over on the RCGroups forum about these cameras, and basically they all have inferior performance to the "standard" "keychain cams".... different guts, different lenses, different framerates, and just not as good a picture quality is generally reported. There's also a bunch of different "models" of keychain cams that have come out, some better than others... you'll need to do a little research to figure out exactly what you want and need.

One thing I CAN tell you right off, you can forget about Super 8... dead as the dodo... besides, the Cineroc wasn't just a housing for a super 8 camera... it was a specially made camera that's been extinct since the late 70's or thereabouts... plus it used specially-loaded cartridges of super 8 film, not the 'off-the-shelf' film magazines from the stores back in the day... they used special "film cassettes" that you either had to buy from Estes (which you can forget EVER getting from them again!) or learn to load yourself using 8mm film. Plus, you had NO SOUND... Even if you COULD get an 8mm camera somewhere, modifying it to fit into a "Cineroc" clone would be well nigh impossible... getting film for it and actually getting it developed would be well nigh impossible too... so you can safely forget about the film format... that leaves digital...

The keychain cams are superior in every respect... and "cloning" the Cineroc and installing a keychain cam is nothing new... there's a whole thread about it over on YORF-- Ye Olde Rocket Forum... do a search over there and I'm sure it'll turn up... complete with pics of the build, descriptions of materials, procedures, and the camera, and everything...

Good luck with your project and hope this helps! OL JR :)
 
that cineroc is amazing! I had no idea that existed. thanks!

Another great keychain cam resource are the threads on rcgroups for each camera. when you figure out which version you want (#3, #11, #16 etc.) check the dedicated thread to find the latest seller selling genuine ones. unless you want to waste money, don't stray from those recommendations.

https://www.rcgroups.com/aerial-photography-128/
 
Thanks all! :)

Well, I pulled the trigger, and just ordered a Mini DVR 808 #16 from eletoponline365. I've been familiar with this camera for some time thanks to Techmoan's reviews on YouTube.

I still wish that the camera was waterproof (I have bicycling uses for the camera, but living in the PNW water is an issue). That said, I have a very bad feeling that I will soon own a fleet of these cameras, as I may soon embark on my design career (aside from my schooling (TESOL)).
 
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K'Tesh said:
Thanks all! :)

Well, I pulled the trigger, and just ordered a Mini DVR 808 #16 from eletoponline365. I've been familiar with this camera for some time thanks to Techmoan's reviews on YouTube.

I still wish that the camera was waterproof (I have bicycling uses for the camera, but living in the PNW water is an issue). That said, I have a very bad feeling that I will soon own a fleet of these cameras, as I may soon embark on my design career (aside from my schooling (TESOL)).
Click to expand...

The 808 cameras generally work great, and are cheap enough that you can experiment a bit. I have seen instructions for taking the sensor out so that it can look "horizontally" from the body tube. And I'm sure you can find a way to waterproof the case, or could move the guts to something waterproof. Heck, you could just extend or protect the switches and charging plug a bit and cover it in a layer of epoxy. Would probably not work submerged, but probably OK for rain. Even up in your neck of the woods.
 
+3 for the 808 #16 keychain cameras, provided you get them from a reputable source, such as the two mentioned above. I understand that BayouRatRocketry tests each one, so while they're slightly more expensive there, you won't need to worry about getting a turd shipped from Hong Kong.

I just ordered a second one with the "B" lens (IR coated). They also sell a "D" lens that's ~120° AOV, but that's too much fisheye for my rocketry needs. And there are other options now for live video, bigger and replaceable batteries, etc. that weren't there in version 1 of the #16 camera.

I will also add that updating firmware is fairly painless, and configuring the #16 cameras is a piece of cake with the java app available (see the #16 forum thread that Issus posted, or jump here: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1556994

I've gotten EXCELLENT results with all of my flights, and a few other non-rocketry related uses. They don't get great results in low-light situations or in scenarios where the input switches from light to dark often (the iris is a bit slow), but otherwise, you absolutely can't go wrong. A few wraps of electrical tape around your rocket to secure it, and you're done.

Two last things to note:

1. They are very picky about which Micro SD card you use, so check the forums. The 4GB and 8GB Class6 Transcend cards (~$8 from Amazon) I've used work fine for me and others, but I wouldn't even try to use a Class2 (not fast enough to keep up). Class4 or above is sufficient.

2. They really have to be fully charged, and unfortunately they don't charge terribly quickly. I bring a portable battery pack to the field with me, and the moment I retrieve the rocket from flight #1, it gets plugged in for the hike back and stays plugged in during recycling of the rocket. By the time it's ready to fly again (and assuming the 'go' button didn't get hit somewhere along the way), the battery is usually charged back up. But if it's not, chances are very high that it will record about 40s and then die, which is about enough time to walk away to the spectator area, but not enough time to actually get through countdown and launch. This is one of the reasons I bought a second one -- will just keep one charged.
 
Sully said:
The 808 cameras generally work great, and are cheap enough that you can experiment a bit. I have seen instructions for taking the sensor out so that it can look "horizontally" from the body tube. And I'm sure you can find a way to waterproof the case, or could move the guts to something waterproof. Heck, you could just extend or protect the switches and charging plug a bit and cover it in a layer of epoxy. Would probably not work submerged, but probably OK for rain. Even up in your neck of the woods.
Click to expand...

I built a waterproof housing for my 808 camera for my rov. It is made from various pvc pipe fittings and a clear lexan window. watertight to down 50+ feet.
 
I saw a pretty neat mount for attaching them to a rocket on a site for 3D printing. You could download the file and make it if you had access to a 3D printer.
 
Brent said:
I saw a pretty neat mount for attaching them to a rocket on a site for 3D printing. You could download the file and make it if you had access to a 3D printer.
Click to expand...

ooohhhh!!! :surprised: now there's an idea I hadn't thought about. That could solve a lot of problems.... Except, I don't know how to use a 3D printer. :sad:
 
Derek said:
I built a waterproof housing for my 808 camera for my rov. It is made from various pvc pipe fittings and a clear lexan window. watertight to down 50+ feet.
Click to expand...

But can you turn the camera on and off (or start/stop recording) w/o unscrewing the case?
 
nope. I don't really need that functionality on the rov.

sorry!
 
K'Tesh said:
ooohhhh!!! :surprised: now there's an idea I hadn't thought about. That could solve a lot of problems.... Except, I don't know how to use a 3D printer. :sad:
Click to expand...

You don't need to know how to use a 3D printer. That's the beauty of that business. You can send the file to an outfit like Shapeways (I think Shapeways even has design SW on their website, not sure), they print it and ship it to you. Slick, not super expensive. No need to invest time and money in the printer set up. Hopefully, one day the printers will be as ubiquitous as your home pc printer and we will all be able to print our own stuff.
 
I have the key fob type camera as discussed on thread and they are ok qualilty and easy of use but awarkard to tape on rocket.

I switched to the USB Type camera, HD video, easier to start/stop, can use large capacity Mini SD cards, and the big plus is there aerodynamic shape. Can tape more securely to rocket. Buttons are on the side not top. On ebay, same price range as the key fob types.

USB Spy camera.JPG
 
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Just FYI, Super 8 film is alive and well and available directly from Kodak at reasonable prices. Getting it developed may take some hunting around. Very nice Super 8 cameras can be had for fairly cheap money on eBay, at pawn shops, second hand stores ...

I wouldn't use Super 8 as a rocket cam for various reasons, your looking at about $4-5 a minute for film that is shot once, then you have to pay for processing, then you need to be able to view it and converting to digital format is another cost. You get about 2 to 3 minutes of film time from a cartridge, if you have a launch hold for any reason your film is gonna run out pretty quickly. Then there is the weight and size issues.

For the price the small digital cams are amazing for what they can do.
 
I received my Mobius last Friday a few hours before leaving for Sweaty Balls. Took 15 days from China to Arkansas. I did not fly it because I didn't have time to make a bracket to screw into the 1/4" tripod mount. Still brainstorming on how to mount it. I was thinking of tape but am a little nervous about that. The Mobius will have a higher profile than the "standard" 808 key chain camera so it will see more wind load. I did shoot some test video and can say the quality is awesome for a 1080p camera costing less than $70.

Walldiver7 said:
Anyone tried flying one of these? How did you mount it?
Click to expand...
 
dshmel said:
I received my Mobius last Friday a few hours before leaving for Sweaty Balls. Took 15 days from China to Arkansas. I did not fly it because I didn't have time to make a bracket to screw into the 1/4" tripod mount. Still brainstorming on how to mount it. I was thinking of tape but am a little nervous about that. The Mobius will have a higher profile than the "standard" 808 key chain camera so it will see more wind load. I did shoot some test video and can say the quality is awesome for a 1080p camera costing less than $70.
Click to expand...

That "higher profile" had me thinking too. It would really be nice if I could just keep the unit inside. I have no experience in this type of mount, so... I guess there would be two options?? One, some type of hooded mirror on the outside of the airframe, or two, a remote sensor mount (also hooded)?? If someone has experience with this, please chime in!
 
8/21/13 Update - Since I purchased the Mobius there have been numerous firmware updates. Most of them are bug fixes and have not added significant new features. However, it is good to see the support and leads me to believe that items on users feature wish lists will be added in time. Also, I continue to see postings from users of the #26 that leads me to belive it is still a work in progress. I flew my Mobius a few weeks ago and used blue "painters tape" to secure it to the air frame. Although I would have reservations about using tape for a supersonic flight, the Mobius stayed on the rocket and the recording was fantastic. So my endorsement for the Mobius is affirmed.

**********************************************************

The #3 camera is only 720x480. I bought a few of those until the #11 came out - which was the first HD (720x1280 30fps) camera. I then bought the #11 Jumbo (bigger battery and case - which looks like a keyfob with fake flip out key) and then the #16 (improved version of #11 by having a battery connector for ease of replacement and connector for camera module to swap sensor/lens combinations). I now own the Mobius and it's video quality blows all others away. There is also a new #26 that is also a 1080p 30fps like the Mobius. The case for the #26 is like the #16 (or #11, or #3) but just a smidgen larger. The quality of the #26 is good and there is ongoing debate in the R/C forum about which is best. The #26 goes for $100 though. I imagine that firmware updates will continue to improve both the Mobius and the #26 and the quality gap - IF you think there is one - will diminish. I think the #26 would be easier to tape onto a rocket (I have used tape up to 600 MPH). In summary, for the highest quality at a reasonable cost go with the Mobius. If the larger and heavier Mobius doesn't work for you and you don't mind dropping $100 then go with the #26. If you want to save money and are okay with 720p then I recommend the #16. I like the "B" lens instead of the wide angle "D" lens for the #16. To me, there is too much fish eye distortion in the "D" lens and the perimeter lacks focus.

UPscaler said:
As for Keychain cameras, if you can find the #3 cameras, those are the best!
Click to expand...
 
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