Apogee Testimony

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AfterBurners

AfterBurners

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I just received an email from Apogee asking me to submit my testimony about what I thought of their service and site. I had recently made a purchase of some 29mm body tubes.

I a nutshell I said that the service was exceptional, but I rarely shop on the site due to the shipping cost and the prices of some kits are higher that other competitors. I said I think it ridiculous to have to pay over $10 to ship a handful of small card board tubes and I would only shop on the site if I absolutely had too and couldn't buy the item elsewhere.

I wasn't trying to be mean, just honest and straight forward. I do like Apogee's site, but I just can't bring myself to pay his prices on some kits and his shipping costs.
 
AfterBurners said:
I just received an email from Apogee asking me to submit my testimony about what I thought of their service and site. I had recently made a purchase of some 29mm body tubes.

I a nutshell I said that the service was exceptional, but I rarely shop on the site due to the shipping cost and the prices of some kits are higher that other competitors. I said I think it ridiculous to have to pay over $10 to ship a handful of small card board tubes and I would only shop on the site if I absolutely had too and couldn't buy the item elsewhere.

I wasn't trying to be mean, just honest and straight forward. I do like Apogee's site, but I just can't bring myself to pay his prices on some kits and his shipping costs.
Click to expand...

I think that Apogee's business model isn't aimed at you then. I agree that shipping is a little pricey and you can get most of what he has for less. However, I think that Tim has a very loyal following who see value in dealing with him and his company. I will say that his communication and shipping speed is much better than most vendors (including non-rocketry!).

It comes down to either you pay the price or you don't. Lots of people on here will not do business with him because you can get it cheaper elsewhere. Others are happy with it. All depends on what is important to you.
 
jsargevt said:
I think that Apogee's business model isn't aimed at you then. I agree that shipping is a little pricey and you can get most of what he has for less. However, I think that Tim has a very loyal following who see value in dealing with him and his company. I will say that his communication and shipping speed is much better than most vendors (including non-rocketry!).

It comes down to either you pay the price or you don't. Lots of people on here will not do business with him because you can get it cheaper elsewhere. Others are happy with it. All depends on what is important to you.
Click to expand...

Good point. Doing business with him isn't important to me and as stated I won't unless his place is the only place that sells something I want and I can't get it elsewhere.
 
Personally, I would put Apogee as my #1 favorite rocketry vendor. They can be a little more expensive then others, but their service, selection, and vast range of information, are worth the prices they charge (and this opinion is from someone on a limited budget).
 
I don't understand the purpose of posting complaints like this. I've ordered from Apogee a few times, and from at least fifteen other online rocketry vendors....Apogee's customer service is second to none. And you pay a premium for that premium service. You're also supporting a vendor that arguably does more education and outreach on behalf of our hobby than any other (all the resources on their website, the newsletter, the videos, all available for free though it costs them time and money to produce) but that's beside the point. When you book an airplane ticket you can fly coach or you can fly first class. Either way you end up at the same destination. But if you're sitting in first class stretching out your legs and sipping champagne you can't complain that your seat cost more than the poor slobs back in economy.
 
I don't know if I would call it complaining. He was just expressing his honest feedback and thoughts of prices and service. Without feedback or "complaints" nothing in business would ever change. I do see the purpose of posting this in an open forum. The more people that might agree with the way he feels see this, the more they may be willing to share their feedback with the company. Numbers matter!
 
beezwax said:
I don't understand the purpose of posting complaints like this.
When you book an airplane ticket you can fly coach or you can fly first class. Either way you end up at the same destination. But if you're sitting in first class stretching out your legs and sipping champagne you can't complain that your seat cost more than the poor slobs back in economy.
Click to expand...

I don't understand the purpose of posting complaints like this.

I do.

When you book an airplane ticket you can fly coach or you can fly first class. Either way you end up at the same destination. But if you're sitting in first class stretching out your legs and sipping champagne you can't complain that your seat cost more than the poor slobs back in economy.

That's why I always book my seat at the back of the plane. Should the plane go down or skid off the runway, The strongest part of the plane is the tail. Your chances of survival are better than sitting in 1st class. Us poor slobs will fare better than the 1st class snobs.
 
Something else to consider is the amount of time and effort that Tim puts into educational materials. That doesn't come for free, yet he gives it away.

-Kevin
 
astroimgur said:
I don't know if I would call it complaining. He was just expressing his honest feedback and thoughts of prices and service. Without feedback or "complaints" nothing in business would ever change. I do see the purpose of posting this in an open forum. The more people that might agree with the way he feels see this, the more they may be willing to share their feedback with the company. Numbers matter!
Click to expand...

Thank you for understanding. I wasn't complaining just merely expressing my honesty. I never said anything bad or slandered Apogee. He does have a nice website, but I simply do not want to pay the pricy shipping costs or his prices. I feel that this is just as much my right as it is for anyone who wants to shop on site. There's no wrong either way as far as I feel. I felt by providing Tim with my feed back he might understand why myself and others like me will not buy from him. It's nothing personal. I'm on a budget and I try to stay within it. Shipping costs can really get rather expensive, so I try to save money where I can. Plus at the moment I'm not working so I have to exercise some control of my spending.
 
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Honestly, Apogee is probably my favorite company to do business with. I will do business with Eric and Baddazz soon I hope, but Tim sets a high standard.
 
troj said:
Something else to consider is the amount of time and effort that Tim puts into educational materials. That doesn't come for free, yet he gives it away.

-Kevin
Click to expand...

Very true...I have benefited from a number of his videos and information from his site.
 
I wish that more.......heck ANY....other rocketry web sites were as good with info and pictures as theirs. Still....I feel exactly the same as AfterBurners on this one.
 
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I can see the point the OP is making... I feel pretty much the same way as he and GreenJello...

TVM DOES put out more "information" and stuff than any other vendor bar none... his videos, Peak of Flight newsletter, and other resources are simply outstanding and a valuable resource, and I'll support that...

His customer service is good, better than most in fact, BUT *I* would say that I get just as good a service if not better from Semroc, and at least as good a service from Dr. Zooch as I have from Apogee... so they certainly DO NOT have the market 'cornered' when it comes to "great service". In fact I KNOW I've gotten better service from Semroc, and for less cost for shipping and less markup on products.

I was pretty disappointed with some of the "help" I've gotten from Apogee with problems I've had crop up with Rocksim... so much so that I didn't see the value in "buying up" to RS9 from RS8 when they released the new version... From the questions and issues that pop up around here periodically that folks have and need help with, I don't see much "improvement" on that score... maybe some of the older "issues" have been fixed but it sounds like there's a new crop of issues that come along with each "improvement"... (Basically TVM told me in an email one time while I was having trouble getting Rocksim installed and running on a Windows machine "that's why you should have bought a Mac"... Gee, thanks for that bit of insight... how wonderfully helpful... I couldn't help thinking "why don't you advertise that your product is unreliable on PC's and should only be purchased by Mac users then??"... But I didn't...)

If Apogee has some unique product that I want, I have no problem buying from them and paying what they're asking for it, if I'm willing to shell out that much. If I can find a comparable product cheaper, then I'll probably buy it elsewhere.

Like it or not we live in a Walmart world, and if someone can provide a similar product or service at a lower price point, they're usually going to get the sale... of course, that IS an individual decision and some folks will think otherwise, as is their right... we've got TONS of local businesses constantly screaming "BUY LOCAL!!!!" trying to justify the fact their prices are usually 20%-33% higher (or more in some cases) than the "big box" stores closer to Houston... sorry but their service isn't THAT much better, nor the product, and I'm not taking that kind of hit on price just so they can "support the local little league" or "buy fair animals" or whatever...

Later! OL JR :)
 
luke strawwalker said:
I can see the point the OP is making... I feel pretty much the same way as he and GreenJello...

TVM DOES put out more "information" and stuff than any other vendor bar none... his videos, Peak of Flight newsletter, and other resources are simply outstanding and a valuable resource, and I'll support that...

His customer service is good, better than most in fact, BUT *I* would say that I get just as good a service if not better from Semroc, and at least as good a service from Dr. Zooch as I have from Apogee... so they certainly DO NOT have the market 'cornered' when it comes to "great service". In fact I KNOW I've gotten better service from Semroc, and for less cost for shipping and less markup on products.

I was pretty disappointed with some of the "help" I've gotten from Apogee with problems I've had crop up with Rocksim... so much so that I didn't see the value in "buying up" to RS9 from RS8 when they released the new version... From the questions and issues that pop up around here periodically that folks have and need help with, I don't see much "improvement" on that score... maybe some of the older "issues" have been fixed but it sounds like there's a new crop of issues that come along with each "improvement"... (Basically TVM told me in an email one time while I was having trouble getting Rocksim installed and running on a Windows machine "that's why you should have bought a Mac"... Gee, thanks for that bit of insight... how wonderfully helpful... I couldn't help thinking "why don't you advertise that your product is unreliable on PC's and should only be purchased by Mac users then??"... But I didn't...)

If Apogee has some unique product that I want, I have no problem buying from them and paying what they're asking for it, if I'm willing to shell out that much. If I can find a comparable product cheaper, then I'll probably buy it elsewhere.

Like it or not we live in a Walmart world, and if someone can provide a similar product or service at a lower price point, they're usually going to get the sale... of course, that IS an individual decision and some folks will think otherwise, as is their right... we've got TONS of local businesses constantly screaming "BUY LOCAL!!!!" trying to justify the fact their prices are usually 20%-33% higher (or more in some cases) than the "big box" stores closer to Houston... sorry but their service isn't THAT much better, nor the product, and I'm not taking that kind of hit on price just so they can "support the local little league" or "buy fair animals" or whatever...

Later! OL JR :)
Click to expand...

I agree with you JR very well said!
 
dlazarus6660 said:
That's why I always book my seat at the back of the plane. Should the plane go down or skid off the runway, The strongest part of the plane is the tail. Your chances of survival are better than sitting in 1st class. Us poor slobs will fare better than the 1st class snobs.
Click to expand...

Yes! That was precisely the point I was trying to make with my analogy. Don't order from Apogee because you'll be more likely to die.

:wink:
 
I guess its because i can drop on in on them and get what i need... right there on the spot... "oh you need some more kevlar? just tell me when to stop" "i need some body tubes and nose cones""ok right this way" I pay less being able to drop right in then i would by ordering from any vendor on here... yes it is nice... also being able to one-on-one talk with tim is very nice as well... "just tape the motor in there, you probably wont see it again anyway" lol... how ever they do not have everything i need... so my next stop is semroc or BMS...

In jest you get great service fast shipping and not to even begin with how much free learning material you get with them... its a pay for what get...
 
Like 'Bubba02STi', I am fortunate that I can go to the Apogee storefront and skip shipping costs (often more than offsetting the higher prices for some of their stuff). Something else that has not been mentioned is that they have a program for frequent buyers where you accumulate points good towards discounts on future purchases. I think they call it 'VIR' (Very Important Rocketeer). Between Apogee, Hobby Lobby (always 40% off) and a couple other vendors that frequent the launches I have started attending early in my BAR life, I have been able to get most of what I need without paying for shipping. Also, as has been stated before, I have learned a lot from Apogee's website.
 
AfterBurners said:
It would interesting to see if my testimony actually gets posted on the Apogee site to add balance to both sides of opinions. We shall see. :D
Click to expand...

Hehehehe.... I wouldn't count on it...

I like Tim, he's a pretty neat guy, and does TONS of stuff for the rocketry community, BUT, sometimes his attitude, or at least the way he "vocalizes" it, is pretty strange... He's flat out said several times in various articles he's written in "Peak of Flight" that if you're not a "frequent/repeat customer" (which qualifies you as one of his "best customers" he's not particularly interested in "wasting time" on you...

Might question his business model, but apparently he's found one that works for him, and works well...

Later! OL JR :)
 
kjkcolorado said:
Like 'Bubba02STi', I am fortunate that I can go to the Apogee storefront and skip shipping costs (often more than offsetting the higher prices for some of their stuff). Something else that has not been mentioned is that they have a program for frequent buyers where you accumulate points good towards discounts on future purchases. I think they call it 'VIR' (Very Important Rocketeer). Between Apogee, Hobby Lobby (always 40% off) and a couple other vendors that frequent the launches I have started attending early in my BAR life, I have been able to get most of what I need without paying for shipping. Also, as has been stated before, I have learned a lot from Apogee's website.
Click to expand...

I forgot about their frequent buyers program... its pretty good too... cant remember exactly the point-to-dollar ratio at the moment but its up there... should probably check to see how many points ive accumulated...
 
Generally, I prefer doing business with business that offer better service with a slightly higher price. There's a limit, of course, to how much extra I'm willing to pay, but all the time I've spent at Home Depot waiting for somebody to find the guy who can even understand my question is usually not worth the $5 I save over the local hardware store where the owner and staff stand in the front and act like guides and advisors. Sometimes I need something fast and cheap, and will go to the chain stores for that.

Now in the rocketry world, pretty much all of our vendors are small businesses run by hobbyists, and most seem to have a pretty good personal touch: it's common to get a helpful same-day email response from the owner (try that at Walmart). One problem is that because these are small operations, they sometimes have problems with keeping inventory, getting behind at busy times, and sometimes the entire staff (1 guy) is out with the flu. Apogee is big enough to minimize those issues.

I have ordered from Apogee and many other vendors, and will continue to order from them all. Tim VM doesn't claim to be the cheapest, but he does claim to have a wide selection and good customer service, which he seems to deliver pretty consistently. Sometimes that's worth a few extra bucks for me, as one high shipping charge may be the same or less than three smaller ones if I spread an order around, and I can get some free advice as well.

Complaining about Apogees prices (and I don't think the OP was complaining) is like complaining that the sit-down restaurant burger costs more than the street vendor burger. Just choose what you prefer.
 
Sully said:
Generally, I prefer doing business with business that offer better service with a slightly higher price. There's a limit, of course, to how much extra I'm willing to pay, but all the time I've spent at Home Depot waiting for somebody to find the guy who can even understand my question is usually not worth the $5 I save over the local hardware store where the owner and staff stand in the front and act like guides and advisors. Sometimes I need something fast and cheap, and will go to the chain stores for that.

Now in the rocketry world, pretty much all of our vendors are small businesses run by hobbyists, and most seem to have a pretty good personal touch: it's common to get a helpful same-day email response from the owner (try that at Walmart). One problem is that because these are small operations, they sometimes have problems with keeping inventory, getting behind at busy times, and sometimes the entire staff (1 guy) is out with the flu. Apogee is big enough to minimize those issues.

I have ordered from Apogee and many other vendors, and will continue to order from them all. Tim VM doesn't claim to be the cheapest, but he does claim to have a wide selection and good customer service, which he seems to deliver pretty consistently. Sometimes that's worth a few extra bucks for me, as one high shipping charge may be the same or less than three smaller ones if I spread an order around, and I can get some free advice as well.

Complaining about Apogees prices (and I don't think the OP was complaining) is like complaining that the sit-down restaurant burger costs more than the street vendor burger. Just choose what you prefer.
Click to expand...

Very well said indeed. This is exactly my take on the matter.
 
Sully said:
Complaining about Apogees prices (and I don't think the OP was complaining) is like complaining that the sit-down restaurant burger costs more than the street vendor burger. Just choose what you prefer.
Click to expand...

While I get what you are saying, that analogy doesn't work. The "sit-down" burger is a superior product to the street vendor burger. They are apples to oranges. If you are talking about...say a CTI motor casing.....it is a product that is identical everywhere. So there has to be a reason to pay more or less for it at different vendors.
 
As I have stated in other threads, this industry has the best customer service, BAR none. SEMROC, ESTES, APOGEE & DISCOUNT ROCKETRY have all provided me with outstanding service, shipping & quality!:clap: Yes Apogee does have higher cost kits & shipping, but the service and the wealth of info they provide more than make up for it! Of course if I can find an item I need at a lower cost from another vendor, I am going to purchase from the other vendor. However, if Apogee has a product that I can't get somewhere else, Not only do I not mind ordering from Apogee, I feel like I am paying not only for the product, I am paying a nominal fee for the info they provide me with and I am not taking advantage of their "freebees". I also will purchase additional items up to the limit of the shipping to offset the shipping charge :wink: I do not think AB did anything wrong in voicing his opinion with his testimony, they asked him for it, he was honest, and it is a free country.
It is the venders, the people in rocketry and this forum that make this more than a hobby, and I want to thank everyone for making it this way:clap:
 
Green Jello said:
While I get what you are saying, that analogy doesn't work. The "sit-down" burger is a superior product to the street vendor burger. They are apples to oranges. If you are talking about...say a CTI motor casing.....it is a product that is identical everywhere. So there has to be a reason to pay more or less for it at different vendors.
Click to expand...

I think if he just shipped items according to weight it would be fair to say that customers wouldn't be paying $7 to ship an Altimeter 2, which could easily be placed in a bubble wrap padded envelope and shipped to the other side of the states for $2-3. This is what I don't understand? If I sold something to someone on here, usually 90% of the time they want to know what it would cost to ship the item. So shipping cost does matter to most of us on here. I understand that every business has to make a profit and TVM is no different, but why do it off shipping costs? If anything I would have free shipping on all orders over $100. You would get more people buying from the site to get the free shipping and sales would increase. Once again I think his site is exceptional and he seems like a pretty nice guy himself and he cares about his customers, but it's all about the bottom line I guess? Look I'm simply stating my opinion based on observation and my past purchases and interaction with Apogee, but I see no reason as Green Jello mentioned to buy an engine case for more and pay the extra shipping simply because the site is informative.
 
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I don't think I've actually purchased anything from Apogee yet. I probably should sometime just because in my early start in this hobby I watched just about every one of his technique videos. They are a huge help.
 

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