Aerotech Releases New Single Use motors!

How about "Aerotech High Power Single Use".....and being the society we are, they could just be referred to as AHPSU

Because the CTI trademarks have been registered for more than five years, they are not contestable. So the question in court would be is there a likelihood of confusion? Courts use the so-called Polaroid factors (from a case involving Polaroid). The conclusions following the factors are mine, based on no investigation whatsoever, so they are worth nothing at all.

Strength of the plaintiff's trademark (moderately strong, not fanciful, but at least suggestive; can't be descriptive because it is incontestable);
Degree of similarity between the two marks at issue (they look pretty close to me);
Similarity of the goods and services at issue (identical use);
Evidence of actual confusion (one of the comments above suggested actual confusion by a sophisticated purchaser);
Purchaser sophistication (this favors Aerotech--more sophisticated purchasers are less likely to be confused. Here, the purchasers are rocket scientists, or at least wannabe rocket scientists like me);
Quality of the defendant's goods or services (this also favors Aerotech; this is not a company trying to knock off CTI's products with inferior goods);
Defendant's intent in adopting the mark: was she trying to free-ride off the plaintiff? or did she have a good faith belief that the mark was available for her use? (It looks to me like a deliberate attempt to copy. The registration likely takes away the good faith belief argument. If Aerotech has email that says "lets make it look like CTI's packaging or font, they will lose.)

It's a question of fact, but I have a tough time thinking Aerotech would be wise to spend money on lawyers to fight this. It would seem far wiser to take the course suggested above and come up with a better name.

Who really cares? My opinion: the market is so small that it' not worth fighting over.
The easiest way around this: Buy, fly, and forget about it!



JD

bobkrech said:

Cesaroni Technology Incorporated (CTI) began registering the Pro(-)X(X) labels as the trademarks for their high power reloadable rocket motors after their Pro38 design patent was awarded in 2000. Some examples are:

Since the introduction of the Pro38® line of reloadable high power rocket motors in 2000, the ProX® line by Cesaroni Technology Incorporated (CTI) has grown to cover every total impulse class from F to O.

New! CAR's MC² announces the approval of seventeen new ProXX® motors
Seventeen motors were tested ranging from 24mm through 98mm!

Pro24® Pro38® Pro54® Pro75® Pro98® Pro150®

Aerotech Rocketry (AT) has registered the label Aerotech Consumer Aerospace(R) but apparently has not registered their other trademarks such as Reloadable Motor System(TM), RMS(TM), Loadable Motor System(TM), LMS(TM) or Reload Delay Kit(TM), RDK(TM) as indicated by the TM designation. See the following examples.

View attachment 123524 View attachment 123525

Aerotech announced their Pro-SU(TM) motor line a month ago as shown below.

2/23/2013
AeroTech Unveils Pro-SU™ Motor Line at NARCON Convention in Santa Clara, CA
AeroTech is introducing a game-changing new product for the high power rocketry market, the Pro-SU™ line of single use motors.

The TM indicates Pro-SU is not a registered trademark.

As the Pro-XX trademark for hobby rocket motors was registered by CTI more than a decade ago, and as it costs money to register a trademark which provides product branding protection, and as AT started using the unregistered Pro-SU trademark for a line of hobby rocket motors this year, it appears that CTI's trademark attorney believes there is a basis for a trademark infringment claim.

Now it's up to the companies. lawyers and courts to figure it out.

For the rest of us, we go fly rockets just like we did before....

Bob

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Thanks Bob. This makes a lot of sense. I have not been able to find Pro-SU in the USPTO database but did find CTI PRO trademarks. I am pretty amazed with some of the comments in this thread. Personally I think AT did a great job innovating something new. This gives fliers more choices and flexibility. I do think they marred a great product with the the Pro designation. One would think that a company introducing a new line would be well aware of the trademark landscape. Now it is helping fuel the Hatfield (CTI) and McCoy (AT) feud, just because some are Hatfields and some are McCoys. Can't we all just get along? (famous quote from some guy somewhere, and yes I know where).

For anyone wanting to dump their CTI hardware, especially 75 mm and above, please pm me and I will be happy to pay shipping. I will gladly use it.

Hopefully this will have a decent ending.

Chris

I think SU-Pro has a better "ring" to it than Pro-SU. SUPro!!!

Single Use - Masterfully Engineered.

rcktnut said:

I think SU-Pro has a better "ring" to it than Pro-SU. SUPro!!!

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Nice. I like it.

patelldp said:

I think we can all agree that California is NOT a very logical state.

View attachment 123548

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AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA YES THIS




In all seriousness, though, i think the combination of the failure to produce interesting or otherwise unique motors in the new line, and the potential lawsuit, make the whole Pro-SU thing a decidedly dumb move on Aerotech's part. But it's their call, I guess. I just hope it wasn't a big investment on their part; I'd hate to see them go out of business.

Initiator001 said:

I haven't heard that.

The fire codes classify ALL metal cased rocket motors as HPR motors. So the AeroTech D13/RMS-18 motor is a HPR motor in California and can only be flown at an high-power launch. One cannot fly them at a model rocket launch.

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I am not sure if the metal casing thing is true here in CA. I use AT 29/ 40 - 120 cases and reloads all of the time at NAR launches at Moffett Field, which is highly regulated. I could have sworn hearing the LCO announcing D13 launches, but could be wrong.

Chris

Buy the motors you want to fly, regardless of their name. Let them figure it out.

4kids49 said:

I am not sure if the metal casing thing is true here in CA. I use AT 29/ 40 - 120 cases and reloads all of the time at NAR launches at Moffett Field, which is highly regulated. I could have sworn hearing the LCO announcing D13 launches, but could be wrong.

Chris

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Certainly the LCO there has announced D15 flights - some of them were mine

When my RMS 24/40 reloads came from Mike at Bay Area Rocketry, I checked the label and the D15's and E28's carry the CSFM "model rocket" certification label. I've kept the labels along with the motors in case there was a question raised. However, I'm not so sure that the Moffett field launches are technically model rockets only. Somebody with more knowledge about the waiver and the arrangement with the field may be able to speak to that.

timro said:

Certainly the LCO there has announced D15 flights - some of them were mine

When my RMS 24/40 reloads came from Mike at Bay Area Rocketry, I checked the label and the D15's and E28's carry the CSFM "model rocket" certification label. I've kept the labels along with the motors in case there was a question raised. However, I'm not so sure that the Moffett field launches are technically model rockets only. Somebody with more knowledge about the waiver and the arrangement with the field may be able to speak to that.

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Hi Tim,

I do know that Moffett is low power only, and 1000 ft ceiling. Nothing HPR is allowed. I do agree that we have crazy regulations here making it insanely difficult to launch in the Bay Area. The biggest problem is California Fire. I am sympathetic to fire safety, but seems way overdone to me. Luckily we have the LUNAR rocket group. Getting crowded though.

Chris

Status Update
By AeroTech Consumer Aerospace
An important note to our customers, our adjustable delay and ejection single use rocket motor line will now be known as Single Use-Force Unlimited (SU-FU).

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Now on their Facebook page!

chuck5395 said:

Now on their Facebook page!

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Well if true, someone seems a tad bitter.

chuck5395 said:

Now on their Facebook page!

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SUFU?? sounds like something you order at a sushi restaurant...

Hey whatever works

FU... yep... someone is a tad bitter.
No matter. I buy and love them all.

Hey, you put a match at one end, and it goes zoom? I'm in.

Status Update
By AeroTech Consumer Aerospace
An important note to our customers, our adjustable delay and ejection single use rocket motor line will now be known as Single Use-Force Unlimited (SU-FU).

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:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

SUFU? Funny but I don't think AT is helping their image...whatevs...I'm over all this silliness now.

Instead of CATO (or cato), any future problem with an Aerotech SU-FU should be called a ... SNAFU!

Seriously, I was hoping that was just an April 1st thing.

-- Roger

DAllen said:

SUFU? Funny but I don't think AT is helping their image...whatevs...I'm over all this silliness now.

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You're right. Funny but it may not help their image. Either way I'm with ya...I just can't wait to see the new motors.

jadebox said:

Instead of CATO (or cato), any future problem with an Aerotech SU-FU should be called a ... SNAFU!

-- Roger

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I like it! :lol:

Red Arrow Hobbies in Stevensville, MI carries motors from 1/2 A through full M, and yes, you are required to provide CURRENT certification credentials to buy anything in the HPR class.

I have yet to learn how to build thread, I'm still learning to build rockets!

CCotner said:

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA YES THIS




In all seriousness, though, i think the combination of the failure to produce interesting or otherwise unique motors in the new line, and the potential lawsuit, make the whole Pro-SU thing a decidedly dumb move on Aerotech's part. But it's their call, I guess. I just hope it wasn't a big investment on their part; I'd hate to see them go out of business.

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I think they're choosing motors that will sell well. I'd buy whatever motor has the thrust curve I'm looking for, but I know a lot of fliers like white lightning with tame thrust curves.