Replacement for Dog Barf: Sheep Wool Insulation?

I was researching biodegradable insulation and came across natural sheep wool insulation. As I researched it, I found that it is mainly used in Europe, but Lowe's does carry a natural sheep wool insulation instead of mineral or rock wool. Natural sheep wool, according to my research is sheep wool that is not of the quality desired fro other products and so this left over product is manufactured into insulation. It does not burn, and it will decompose over time. It is expensive, though. A bundle of 8 batts is almost $60, but that should last quite a while. Seems to me this could be better for the environment than dog barf. I am going to research it further and then see if I can get some other guys to go in on a bale. Let's see, divided by 8 that 's .... One batt of 16" X 72" equals how many rockets...

What do you think?

BEAR

Green Jello said:

I thought dog barf was supposed to be biodegradable and perfectly fine for the environment?

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That's what I heard. If it shreaded newspaper with flame retardant chems. Maybe the chems are an issue, but hte paper shouldn't be. Maybe the sheep stuff has the same chems?

Ewe must be kidding.:wink:

I can just hear the following events of the flights now: Delay and ejection: "Sissss, Boom, Baaaa"

I like your line of reasoning. This seems like a possibly good idea and certainly worth some further research. Yeah, it's "expensive" compared to dog barf, but in the overall scheme of things it's really not all that costly. 8 batts is a LOT of wadding. I'd be interested in what you find out, and possibly even using it myself.

s6

shreadvector said:

Ewe must be kidding.:wink:

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shreadvector said:

I can just hear the following events of the flights now: Delay and ejection: "Sissss, Boom, Baaaa"

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:roll:oint::rofl:
Beautiful!

shreadvector said:

I can just hear the following events of the flights now: Delay and ejection: "Sissss, Boom, Baaaa"

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Hot coffee in the sinuses is really a wake up call-thanks Fred!!

Typical dog barf insulation isn't bad for the environment, at least not in the quantities we are talking about. It's recycled paper shred plus borates or boric acid. Borates are harmless to us at reasonable doses and are used as eye wash. Boric acid is also a good insecticide in that you can dust it into spaces where roaches or ants crawl. They ingest it and that gives them a high concentration which kills them. But if baby sticks his finger in a pile and tastes it, no worries because a harmful dose would be huge on human scale.

The tiny amount we release into the environment is an insignificant amount of borate. The finely divided paper is invisible on the field so won't annoy the parks department. And it degrades naturally.

Wool STINKS when it burns. Try burning your own hair. Burned keratin is nasty. And clumps of it on the field after a launch might draw attention.

Dog barf is the perfect substance from our perspective.

Marc

Gotta say it: wool is a baaaaaad idea :grin:

Use it inside a Baaaaaaffle. That or use Nomex. Reusable, but not as sheep.

cavecentral said:

Use it inside a Baaaaaaffle. That or use Nomex. Reusable, but not as sheep.

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Marc_G said:

Gotta say it: wool is a baaaaaad idea :grin:

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You guys are killin' me!

Wool is naturally flame-retardant, and self-extinguishes, if you do somehow get it burning.

That said, while it will degrade, it doesn't do so quickly.

-Kevin

Most sheepswool insulation has borates added to deter pests. If worried about environmental impacts overall better off with dog barf.
https://www.ecorate.com/content/com...58_70_na_100_75&prid=65629_68_56_100_na_23_61

Anyone offering to sell you this sheep stuff is just trying to pull the wool over your eyes.

troj said:

Wool is naturally flame-retardant, and self-extinguishes, if you do somehow get it burning.

That said, while it will degrade, it doesn't do so quickly.

-Kevin

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Wool does not catch flame easily and will self-extiguish like you said. But I think it will "burn" in the sense of reacting to high heat and will probably stink like burnt hair.

Instead of Dog Barf and Sheep Wool, how about something in between, like Sheep Barf and a little Hair of the Dog.

Or a wolf in sheep's clothing....

ThirstyBarbarian said:

Instead of Dog Barf and Sheep Wool, how about something in between, like Sheep Barf and a little Hair of the Dog.

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shreadvector said:

Or a wolf in sheep's clothing....

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You have far too much knowledge of sheep, your scaring me.

At the outdoor adventure store that I work at part-time we sell a high-end brand of clothing made of Merino wool, sourced from the highland sheep stations of New Zealand. Every so often we get a product return that is supposed to be "destroyed". Being the environmentally responsible type of person that I am though, I can think of no better contribution to the advancement of our hobby/sport/industry than to cut square swatches of pure Merino wool fabric out of these items to serve as experimental parachute protectors. I'll keep ewe posted on the results.

Fuse Eh! said:

At the outdoor adventure store that I work at part-time we sell a high-end brand of clothing made of Merino wool, sourced from the highland sheep stations of New Zealand. Every so often we get a product return that is supposed to be "destroyed". Being the environmentally responsible type of person that I am though, I can think of no better contribution to the advancement of our hobby/sport/industry than to cut square swatches of pure Merino wool fabric out of these items to serve as experimental parachute protectors. I'll keep ewe posted on the results.

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If you are cutting up Icebreaker garments for parachute protectors, Imma smack you!

Green Jello said:

I thought dog barf was supposed to be biodegradable and perfectly fine for the environment?

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It is... it's just shredded newspaper with a borate fire retardant applied...

The small shredded bits of paper disperse readily in the atmosphere after ejection and rain down as confetti... the small particle size of the paper, which is to say, the degree of fineness to which it is shredded (which is necessary to make it "flowable" for blowing into walls with machinery for installation in houses) makes it particularly prone to rapid breakdown in the environment... (wind and rain will rapidly carry it to the soil surface where the paper decomposes as any other cellulose does (IE dead grass)... Once at/near the soil surface, it stays damp and becomes part of the humus on the soil surface where microbes and small insects rapidly decompose it into the soil). Even the borate fire retardant is harmless-- it's actually FERTILIZER, as 90% of the soils in the United States are actually deficient to some degree in boron, an essential micronutrient for plants.

So, use dog barf with pride... certainly better than all that brown "Estes Kleenex" balls raining down on the field-- not that they're substantially any worse-- they'll decompose the same way given time and rain, BUT, being large "wadded up sheets" instead of small particles, they're held up off the ground surface by grass and other ground cover, and therefore don't break down anywhere near as quickly-- they just present something of a litter problem... (not that I worry about it-- I roam the range after a launch and pick up whatever I can find and throw it in my pocket-- it's reusable many times til it's literally charred away to nothing).

While this sheep wool thing is interesting, I don't think it's ANY more "environmentally friendly" than dog barf... Since all insulation has to be fireproof (fiberglass and "rock wool" doesn't burn, naturally, but any other fibers made from cellulose or other substances that CAN burn and thus MUST be treated with fire retardants by law) I presume this wool insulation is also treated with some form of fire retardant chemical... and the proteins making up hair or wool don't break down in the environment any faster than the complex sugars making up cellulose, so I doubt there's much benefit at all...

Later! OL JR

We havent had sheep in our pasture for more than 10 years but tufts and gobs of fleece are still living strong in every nook and cranny. Natural wool saturated with natural lanolin breaks down just about as fast as plastic grocery bags. Raw untreated wool is also heavier than dog barf insulation. We still have several complete fleeces rolled up and sitting in the garage rafters if anyone wants some but I think you would be disappointed. If you really want something natural and biodegradable use regular popcorn for wadding.

Stan said:

We havent had sheep in our pasture for more than 10 years but tufts and gobs of fleece are still living strong in every nook and cranny. Natural wool saturated with natural lanolin breaks down just about as fast as plastic grocery bags. Raw untreated wool is also heavier than dog barf insulation. We still have several complete fleeces rolled up and sitting in the garage rafters if anyone wants some but I think you would be disappointed. If you really want something natural and biodegradable use regular popcorn for wadding.

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But, be warned... popcorn can burn...

Other choices include:
"Expendable" natural wadding subtitutes:
Cabbage or lettuce leaves
Lush green grass (high moisture content--NOT dry or old grass!)
Popcorn (popped)

"Reusable" wadding subtitutes:
Nomex chute protectors or wadding replacement sheets
Micromeister's "teflon plumber's tape pom-poms"
Foam plugs used as wadding, WITH a thread or string taped to them to keep them TETHERED to the rocket (so they don't become a litter issue, because foam does NOT biodegrade, though it will eventually break down from UV decay).

Stuff to NEVER use:
Fiberglass insulation
Pillow or mattress ticking/stuffing
Rock wool

Later! OL JR

Look what lives on our launch field...



If natural sheep wool is effective wadding then we have a free supply, and it's about as environmentally friendly as you can get since it's already lying around in the field. We could pick it up, use it, then put it back in the field.

adrian said:

Look what lives on our launch field...

View attachment 119025

If natural sheep wool is effective wadding then we have a free supply, and it's about as environmentally friendly as you can get since it's already lying around in the field. We could pick it up, use it, then put it back in the field.

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The rocket launching field --- where men are men, and sheep run scared.

ThirstyBarbarian said:

If you are cutting up Icebreaker garments for parachute protectors, Imma smack you!

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Guilty as charged! But hey, it just occurred to me that I could even make parachutes out of the swatches. As in...
View attachment 119172

My 2 cents

As an Army aircrew member, I would say that most natural fibers would fit the bill for recovery wadding. The ejection charge is a flash fire and natural fibers generally have a high enough flash point to work in this application. I would think that most natural fibers could work in a pinch. I have tried to burn pretty much every piece of the flight uniform and base my thoughts on that experience.

In the end, I believe that dog barf is the most cost effective option available to all.

Mac

Dog Barf,

Cheap,
Harmless,
Get it done.

Why try to fix that?

Always good to know about alternatives, where to get them, what they cost, how they perform, in case something out of the ordinary should happen. I like back-up plans.
BEAR

As the son of a farmer who has always had sheep on the farm, I can tell you that raw wool is VERY smelly. There would be serious odor issues with the rocket for ever after. Plus the wool is very oily (the lanolin) and will slime the inside of the airframe.

Adrian