Dr. Zooch Saturn 1b build thread

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that looks awesome Glen! I have found there is always some gaps no matter how carefully you roll the tanks....I think its more noticeable on the all white tank versions..something about the alternating black and white tanks diverts the eye from the gap...but regardless, the kit is still a very cool looking rocket. I think even on the real 1bs there was a gap of sorts.

looking great so far!!


GlenP said:
Many thanks, this build just keeps getting more fun and interesting. since I have all white tanks, I brushed some white paint, a little leftover Testor's bottle from another build, over the spider beams to help blend with any gaps between the tanks.
View attachment 281581

I did a few dry test fits with the tank tubes rolled from the different wraps, and decided to go with the detailed wraps from Rosco Racer, they look really nice. And there are some gaps between the tanks, but I tried my best to make them as uniform as possible. The one tank over the engine clip I sliced a slot out of it so it would sit even with the other tanks.
View attachment 281580

Building this kit, you will have many t'anks. -- You're welcome!
Click to expand...
 
Here are the tanks assembled into the main body tube structure. Standing beside is one of my practice cardstock rockets I built recently before starting this build, that was definitely some good practice with rolling tubes. The 1B is looking pretty groovy so far also. (kudos to Rosco Racer for the really cool wrap details, many thanks!) I am really digging this Zooch kit, man. Sorry if I went off on a tangent there.

DSC_6420.jpg
 
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Creating the illusion of a perfectly formed tower ... The vertical posts are cut from a Qtip stick.
 
Hi GlenP!


Nice build you have there. I do not visit TRF much but when I do I always check this thread (and the one on the Space Shuttle) as I find them to be the most interesting. Now I am also keeping an eye on the one on the LJ2.
 
Hey Rosco....just offering a thank you to you from all of the Zooch 1b builders! Your wraps are great and thank you!!


rosko_racer said:
Hi GlenP!


Nice build you have there. I do not visit TRF much but when I do I always check this thread (and the one on the Space Shuttle) as I find them to be the most interesting. Now I am also keeping an eye on the one on the LJ2.
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image.jpg
The qtip sticks are on the thick side, the diameter is about the same as the diagonal of the square sticks that come with the kit for the vertical tower posts. I haven't built one of these towers from dowels since my Centuri Mercury Redstone when I was a kid. I was thinking I might have to build a few practice towers to get a good one, but I am at the point where I might just glue these to the balsa capsule and fill in the diagonal supports. I want the glue to stick well, but if I seal and sand the balsa first, will the glue still stick?

Many Thanks, Rosco for the kind words and those really cool detailed wraps. I hope to contribute my idea for the fins when I get to that part.
 
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Not much new progress, just sanded down the balsa shoulders to get them to fit in the body tubes. Here's the obligatory first dry-fit stack up. Starting to take shape. Got to finish that tower.

DSC_6422.jpg
 
looking like a 1b to me! its amazing what the wraps do when you put them on...that interstage and the IU....really makes you feel that you are making progress when they go on.

Friendly heads up: make sure that the thrust structure wrap starts right between a fuel tank and a LOX tank...that wrap sets up the fin placement.

she is looking great Glen!!
 
I put on a few of coats of sanding sealer on the balsa parts, it really soaks up into the end grain of the capsule and inter-stage transition, it takes a little more sealer than a typical fin sheet.

Creating the illusion of the perfect tower: option A
DSC_6424.jpg
 
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Thanks to PayloadBay.com I printed up some micro transitions to use as LES nozzles. dia1=1mm, dia2=3mm, L=4mm, probably a little larger than true scale, but this is meant to be fun-size, stand-off/ant scale, and the tower itself is a little over designed for flying ruggedness. I used some balsa spacers near the end of the posts and sanded to match the CM cone shape so I have a really good glue surface with the CM. I am contemplating rigging up strings on the nose to the chute so the nose will drop sideways rather than on the tower tip.
DSC_6427.jpg
DSC_6426.jpg
(that is not a full-size Groove Tube, it is min dia 13mm downscale.)
DSC_6425.jpg
Waiting for a dry no-wind day for spray painting, or I might just resort to brush painting with a little bottle of Testors' white laquer. I think I will mask off the portions of the upper stage that will get covered by the paper wraps, then hit the whole upper portion. Next steps, paint, paper body tube wraps, then fins... more to come.
 
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that looks great!! nicely done!

GlenP said:
Thanks to PayloadBay.com I printed up some micro transitions to use as LES nozzles. dia1=1mm, dia2=3mm, L=4mm, probably a little larger than true scale, but this is meant to be fun-size, stand-off/ant scale, and the tower itself is a little over designed for flying ruggedness. I used some balsa spacers near the end of the posts and sanded to match the CM cone shape so I have a really good glue surface with the CM. I am contemplating rigging up strings on the nose to the chute so the nose will drop sideways rather than on the tower tip.
View attachment 282584
View attachment 282583
(that is not a full-size Groove Tube, it is min dia 13mm downscale.)
View attachment 282582
Waiting for a dry no-wind day for spray painting, or I might just resort to brush painting with a little bottle of Testors' white laquer. I think I will mask off the portions of the upper stage that will get covered by the paper wraps, then hit the whole upper portion. Next steps, paint, paper body tube wraps, then fins... more to come.
Click to expand...
 
many thanks, I am really enjoying this build. I was able to hit it with the first coat of gloss white today, a break in the wind and rain. Even with all that sanding sealer on the balsa, some grain is still showing on the base coat. The transition surface is more of an end-grain than a side grain, if that makes sense, so this is somewhat expected. I can sand it out and hit it again. A little part of the top of the CM is shielded by the tower, I might have to spray some paint into a paper cup and run a detail brush through the tower trusses. When I get ready to glue the wraps on, I will just sand down those regions to rough it up to help the glue stick.

DSC_6428.jpg
 
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Looks really nice! I'll take note as the Saturn V has been sitting on my shelf for a while. I can only assume (dangerous) that the escape tower will be very similar!
 
The tower is not as daunting as I had been dreading. There is not really a set pattern to follow for the cross braces, you have to kind of make your own truss pattern. Now that I have finished one, I feel like I could do a second one a little better, but am still very happy with the results. Now I am sanding and painting and sanding and I kind of feel like a little balsa grain actually adds some character and does not really look that bad. Just about ready to start wrapping this thing.

Before I assemble the upper stages to the engine thrust structure and tank assembly, I am thinking about putting in a baffle. my question is, should I put a baffle in the BT20 engine tube, or in the larger dia BT60? I am thinking the bafflle in the BT20 would be most effective, but would the ejection charge still have enough pressure to pop off the nose?
 
the Zooch Saturn V tower is a wrap sheet....no need to worry about that one!


kcobbva said:
Looks really nice! I'll take note as the Saturn V has been sitting on my shelf for a while. I can only assume (dangerous) that the escape tower will be very similar!
Click to expand...
 
Glen,
I can't help you with that one...I have never used a baffle..

GlenP said:
The tower is not as daunting as I had been dreading. There is not really a set pattern to follow for the cross braces, you have to kind of make your own truss pattern. Now that I have finished one, I feel like I could do a second one a little better, but am still very happy with the results. Now I am sanding and painting and sanding and I kind of feel like a little balsa grain actually adds some character and does not really look that bad. Just about ready to start wrapping this thing.

Before I assemble the upper stages to the engine thrust structure and tank assembly, I am thinking about putting in a baffle. my question is, should I put a baffle in the BT20 engine tube, or in the larger dia BT60? I am thinking the bafflle in the BT20 would be most effective, but would the ejection charge still have enough pressure to pop off the nose?
Click to expand...
 
I've used a baffle in a larger rocket that I designed in Rocksim for. I think you'd almost want to do the same to get at least a ball park on what that'll do to your CG and determine if the engine is still proper......or just light it and smile!! :) To be honest, I've had such luck with dog barf since then, I personally just stick with that now.
 
Thanks for the info. I don't think I will add too much weight. I can just balance the model and make sure I place the baffle forward of the stock c.g. so that it moves forwards or remains at the same spot.

Looking at the engine structure assembly, I might be able to plug the BT-20 at the top, and cut some baffle holes around the BT-20 between the top centering rings, and then cut some holes in the top centering ring. I'll try to sketch that out and see if it might work.
 
GlenP said:
Thanks for the info. I don't think I will add too much weight. I can just balance the model and make sure I place the baffle forward of the stock c.g. so that it moves forwards or remains at the same spot.

Looking at the engine structure assembly, I might be able to plug the BT-20 at the top, and cut some baffle holes around the BT-20 between the top centering rings, and then cut some holes in the top centering ring. I'll try to sketch that out and see if it might work.
Click to expand...

Cool. Will look forward to seeing your results. Take good pictures so we can consider following suit should everything work like a champ!
 
image.jpg

Here is the concept, a I made a short bt20 coupler and made a plug from cardstock, this will get glued into the top of the engine tube to reinforce where holes will be cut in the space between the top two centering rings. The top centering ring will also have some holes cut, one just above each tank tube, those provide a good spacing reference, as do the spider web lines that were drawn on the bt20 tube. I plan on adding one more centering ring in the bt60 to complete the baffle, instead of a bt20 hole in the middle, maybe a few smaller holes near the middle. This could be placed closer to the nose just so there is enough room for some wadding and the chute and shock cord.
 
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DSC_6430.jpg
DSC_6431.jpg
DSC_6432.jpg
DSC_6433.jpg
DSC_6436.jpg

so, here's the latest on the baffle, I made a short coupler to fit the engine BT20, on the outside I wrapped a little retainer ring so it would go in the correct depth, on the inside I put in a disc and retainer ring. Coated lots of glue over the inside of that to hold up to the ejection charge. I thought the 8 little holes in the BT20 might be too small and get gunked up, so I drilled 4 larger holes in the BT20 with the reinforced coupler. Then I used a standard hole punch to make some openings around the top centering ring. One more BT60 centering ring should do the trick to help keep the chute and cords closer to the top portion of the BT60 tube. Hey, it was either work on this crazy baffle idea or do some more sanding of the painted balsa parts...
 
looks awesome Glen!!



GlenP said:
View attachment 282988
View attachment 282984
View attachment 282985
View attachment 282986
View attachment 282987

so, here's the latest on the baffle, I made a short coupler to fit the engine BT20, on the outside I wrapped a little retainer ring so it would go in the correct depth, on the inside I put in a disc and retainer ring. Coated lots of glue over the inside of that to hold up to the ejection charge. I thought the 8 little holes in the BT20 might be too small and get gunked up, so I drilled 4 larger holes in the BT20 with the reinforced coupler. Then I used a standard hole punch to make some openings around the top centering ring. One more BT60 centering ring should do the trick to help keep the chute and cords closer to the top portion of the BT60 tube. Hey, it was either work on this crazy baffle idea or do some more sanding of the painted balsa parts...
Click to expand...
 
and I know all about the sanding...I am currently working on a plastic model...an old Tamiya B-52D in 1/100 scale....the seams on this are measured in feet!
 
Another advantage to having the forward centering ring notched for the baffle, is I can put two glue lines in the BT60 tube and slide it over the engine assembly, half of the bottom glue line will stay in place, like these grooved centering rings from Apogee. These centering rings are fairly close together, so it might be a tight squeeze to add the end glue line with only the first centering ring inserted half way, otherwise.

===update===
made a short coupler-sized ring to help slide the BT60 baffle disc into position and not spin around on me. Ready to glue this stack up and start wrapping it. Pretty much done with sanding and painting. (Writing my mandatory letter to my congressman that I have complied with the PWLSEA "People Who Lack Sanding Experience Act of 2014") Not much grain showing anymore.
DSC_6440.jpg
 
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