Dr. Zooch Saturn 1b build thread

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Anyway, the smell of diesel smoke, burning trees, cedar posts, and peanut oil with flames roaring into the sky certainly beats all that foo-foo crap smell in those girly stores...

I love the smell of diesel smoke, burning trees, cedar posts, and peanut oil in the morning. Smells like...Victory.

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I remember watching these missions go up when I was in 4th grade. I fell in love with this rocket at that time....gosh I wish I could have seen one of these in person (or a Saturn V).... sigh....I will have to settle for the video and images I guess...but damn, this is one sexy looking machine.

OK...time to go roll some tanks. I will post some pictures later. I have already made the engines and the fins are drying in the paint shop as I type this (the garage....) Thanks for following!
Rick, I agree with you, it would have been a bucket list item scratched to see a launch of the V. I tried 3 times for a Shuttle launch but got scrubbed each time. I was talking to a few guys who did make the V launches, they heartily stated you have to see the IMAX movie that is shown at the Space Center. I think they have it at the Liberty Science Center now and then.
 
I'm scratch building Ib right now with BT-5 tanks around a BT-50 core and BT-70 shrouds. I thought it would be fitting, since we're coming up on the 40th anniversary of ASTP next month.
 
Crazy OB...I watched a Delta launch once....and it was cool to see that baby accelerate...you miss that watching on TV...but there will always be something about the Saturns...the power and the beauty of those rockets...just really cool!


Rick, I agree with you, it would have been a bucket list item scratched to see a launch of the V. I tried 3 times for a Shuttle launch but got scrubbed each time. I was talking to a few guys who did make the V launches, they heartily stated you have to see the IMAX movie that is shown at the Space Center. I think they have it at the Liberty Science Center now and then.
 
Joe...can't wait to see some pictures! Are you going to go with a white tank version of the 1b?


I'm scratch building Ib right now with BT-5 tanks around a BT-50 core and BT-70 shrouds. I thought it would be fitting, since we're coming up on the 40th anniversary of ASTP next month.
 
couple more...including a few of the normal configuration Saturn 1b.

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The Zooch Apollo 5 is a neat little kit of a forgotten mission! First flight of the LM using Gus Grissom's booster that was slated for the Apollo 1 mission. She flew perfectly!
 
Nice work, NJ! I don't think anyone does Dr. Zooch's Saturn I kits as well as you do! They look like museum pieces. I did not know that Gus Grissom's booster was used for Apollo 5 and the first test of the LM.
 
thanks Aerostadt! The Zooch 1bs are fun little kits that I really enjoy building and flying. I actually started this one back in August...but repainting the interior of my house got in the way...to the tune of 13 gallons of paint :facepalm: just glad that is done!! But what I thought would take a week or so took 2 months...:kill: Building a Zooch Saturn 1b is a good way to recover!

Nice work, NJ! I don't think anyone does Dr. Zooch's Saturn I kits as well as you do! They look like museum pieces. I did not know that Gus Grissom's booster was used for Apollo 5 and the first test of the LM.
 
WOW! And you actually have the nerve to 'light the candle' on this rocket? Put it on the shelf and don't tempt Murphy or the Gremlins :)
 
thanks Crazy....you may have a point...of course...if I lose one that just means I get to build another! Seriously, I have not flown the Skylab Saturn 1b for that reason...but I will eventually fly her. I would like to build an Apollo 7 Saturn 1b (the black tank version) and there are things I think I can do to make a nicer build.

The Zooch 1bs are certainly smaller than some of the beautiful Saturn 1b kits that are out there (Apogee or Estes), but with a little patience I think you can make one that approaches the detail of the larger kits. And they also only cost $25. There is a whole lot of fun in that little box!!


WOW! And you actually have the nerve to 'light the candle' on this rocket? Put it on the shelf and don't tempt Murphy or the Gremlins :)
 
I'm in! Excited to have received a Saturn Ib in the secret santa exchange this year. Hopefully mine will turn out half as well as Rick's projects.
 
thanks for the kind words Falcons. The Zooch 1b is my favorite model kit, plastic or rocket, of all time. You will be amazed at the final product you get from the materials provided. The key is rolling the tanks. Make extra copies of the sheets and make sure to steam them. You will find yourself rolling tanks like a pro in no time. After that, it a very straight forward build. The kit built stock makes a really cool rocket that flies great! make sure to share some pictures with us! Did you get the Apollo 7 1b (black tanks) or the Skylab/ASTP version (white tanks)?


I'm in! Excited to have received a Saturn Ib in the secret santa exchange this year. Hopefully mine will turn out half as well as Rick's projects.
 
I got the ASTP set (1B and Soyuz) last summer and have been hesitant to get started on it, but for practice I have done some other cardstock rockets. I think I am up to the challenge now, and finally gotten through some other builds so now I have no excuse to not go ahead and dig into this one. So far I have the wrap sheets flattening in a book and have been enjoying reading the instructions several times over.

One idea I had with the fins and those little filler pieces between the tank tubes, is to make a new wrap template for papering the fins that already have the roll pattern printed on them so you don't have to paint them. I mean, you have the body tube wrapped already, right, so why not the fins too? Here is a rough idea of what I mean, then I would just paper the balsa fins with these, or laminate a few layers of the cardstock and use carded fins. The fins would then all have the correct matching roll pattern as the lower thrust structure tube. If I use the balsa stock then I could sand them to a wedge shape first, then paper them. Laminated cardstock fins would just likely be flat with lightly sanded rounded edges. I haven't seen anyone else do this with the kit yet, so I thought I would make this suggestion. This is just a screen shot of my template, I am making this in Inkscape as .svg (scalable vector graphics) to match the size of the kit fins and fillet pieces. I feel like I can get the paper more accurately glued up with a left-right side, rather than the typical fold over the leading edge type of carded fin template, but I could try that method also.

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Glen.....that looks like a great idea and I would love to see how you do it...I have never papered fins before so I think this is a great idea and I would love to see how you do it! Hanging the fins, the trick is to line up that edge of the painted part of the fin with the roll pattern on the thrust structure. This could be a great way to do it! The Saturn 1b has these really cool raked fins...the bad part is that there are 8 of them...the good part is that there are 8 of those cool fins!

as for building the Zooch 1b....once you get the tanks rolled...this is a very straight forward build. I have no doubt you will do an awesome job with her! make lots of copies of the wrap sheets....once you get into the practice of rolling the tanks you will see how quickly you can churn them out. I always make extra and then use them for future builds...that is what I did with the Apollo 5 build. Steaming the tanks really does help.

keep us posted!!


I got the ASTP set (1B and Soyuz) last summer and have been hesitant to get started on it, but for practice I have done some other cardstock rockets. I think I am up to the challenge now, and finally gotten through some other builds so now I have no excuse to not go ahead and dig into this one. So far I have the wrap sheets flattening in a book and have been enjoying reading the instructions several times over.

One idea I had with the fins and those little filler pieces between the tank tubes, is to make a new wrap template for papering the fins that already have the roll pattern printed on them so you don't have to paint them. I mean, you have the body tube wrapped already, right, so why not the fins too? Here is a rough idea of what I mean, then I would just paper the balsa fins with these, or laminate a few layers of the cardstock and use carded fins. The fins would then all have the correct matching roll pattern as the lower thrust structure tube. If I use the balsa stock then I could sand them to a wedge shape first, then paper them. Laminated cardstock fins would just likely be flat with lightly sanded rounded edges. I haven't seen anyone else do this with the kit yet, so I thought I would make this suggestion. This is just a screen shot of my template, I am making this in Inkscape as .svg (scalable vector graphics) to match the size of the kit fins and fillet pieces. I feel like I can get the paper more accurately glued up with a left-right side, rather than the typical fold over the leading edge type of carded fin template, but I could try that method also.

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I hope you don't mind me appending to this build thread, I don't intend to cover every detail of the build, but plan to focus on things that I might do differently from the kit instructions. Starting with the engine mount, the instructions say to use tape on the engine lock, but in other Zooch kits, like the new smaller ASTP Soyuz, there is a cardstock strip to wrap around the engine tube as a reinforcement ring, and another as an engine lock retainer ring. I opted to use that technique on the engine tube here.
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I cut the spider beams from the thin 5 1/4" balsa sheet, and I wondered why are they called spider beams?
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oh, yeah, and because spiders have eight legs too.

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Waiting for glue to dry, then I will cover the middle with some flat black. Then, on to rolling some tubes. I have gotten pretty good at making cardstock tubes in some other builds recently. The "UNITED STATES" tanks (white in the ASTP version) do not have the AS-210 on them. I am thinking of reprinting these wraps with the additional markings before I roll them up.

Also, regarding my fin templates, I have noticed in some of the NASA photos the Saturn 1Bs have some Roman numerals on some of the fins, I, II, III, IV, but I have not seen enough of these pictures to figure out the complete pattern, the launch pictures are fairly blurry in that area. Anyone know how the fins were marked on the ASTP 1B?
 
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Glen,
feel free to share your build here....I am sure that we will all appreciate it! The Zooch 1b is a great kit! I know that Rosco Racer of this Forum has made Zooch 1b wraps to use instead of those provided with the kit. His thrust structure added some additional printed details such as stringers between the fins and access panels etc. He also makes the tanks as well....if you are interested I would suggest you reach out to him...he is a great guy. If you can print them up your self...that would be cool and I would love to see them!
On my 1bs , for the booster markings I use either card stock or decals that I print at home. I read somewhere that Von Braun insisted that on his boosters his Saturns got top billing...the S came before the A...so they were ID'd as SA-206, SA-207 etc. The fin markings go on every other fin...and are I, II, III, IIII...but the font used on those did not have the horizontal bar on the top or bottom of the "i". When I get home from work tonight I will look to see if I have any better info for you.
she is looking good so far!

Rick
 
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Thanks very much! I think I will try to use the Rosco Racer wraps, I like the CM, tank tubes, and the additional detail on the thrust structure wrap.

The parts not included on those wraps are the fins and the little filler pieces between the tanks. Those are some things that I will attempt to produce, such that those parts can be printed and not require painting. I will update my fin template to include the Roman numerals (did they use IIII or IV for 4?). For the little triangle pieces, some folks keep them all white, but they can also extend the roll pattern from the thrust structure wrap below. My initial idea above in post #381, shows how these eight parts can be printed to match the roll pattern.

Another concept I have is to join the eight little parts into a single wrap piece, using a transition cone with ellipsoid cut outs for the tubes. It can get pretty thin at the edge, so I might have to make the transition double thickness, or extend it out beyond the OD of the thrust tube, then carefully trim it off after it has been glued in place. The lower thrust tube wrap could then be applied over it to help cover irregularities in the seam. I haven't worked out the installation details yet, but this sure would have been easier before I assembled the engine tube with the centering rings. Here is a very rough prototype of what I am thinking. I printed up a transition from PayloadBay.com and made some cut outs around some practice tank tubes. Crazy enough, it just might work!

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that looks pretty good to me Glen!!
I believe that they used IIII to designate fin group #4. Rosco's wraps are awesome ! Thanks Rosco!
 
I found that some of my spider beam gaps were not uniform. I had only lightly tacked these down with white glue, so they were easy to slide off with a sharp hobby knife and re-glue into a better position to avoid gaps between the test tubes. I think I may paint those spider beams flat white instead of black for the all-white-tank ASTP 1b, less likely to stand out between the tanks if there are gaps if they match the color of the tanks.

I debated about finishing the build first, then posting all the great photos here after the fact, or doing this in real time and posting progress as I go along. This is going to take a while doing this in real time here. I have all the tank tube templates cut out, from the stock kit and from Rosco Racer's templates, will get to rolling them soon. I do appreciate both the additional details in Rosco's wraps and the simplicity of the stock kit wraps for an ant-scale kit. I may use the tubes with "UNITED STATES" from Rosco since they also have "AS-210" combined with the plain white tubes of the stock kit, I will have to see how they look together.
 
Fun with rolling tubes! The "UNITED STATES" tube template has a part that indicates the glue area, but you really should put glue on the opposite side where that area will contact, as shown here. I opted to use a glue stick, a little easier to manage spreading the glue around without using a finger. And I prefer to use a longer dowel that overhangs the tube, a little easier to find a place to grip, I had this 3/8" dowel from a prior cardstock rocket project, wrapped with wax paper so glue does not stick, as much.
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finished all the Zooch kit stock tubes, sometimes less is more
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and from Rosco Racer's template, sometimes more is more:
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I kind of like the combination of the Rosco tanks with the plain white tanks on the right, but could also take the Zooch with the detailed plain tubes on the left. From a distance on the launch pad, any of them would look great.
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Out of this batch of 16 tubes, I had one where I slipped a little and the tube came out uneven at one end, I may redo that one, but overall I am pleased with how they all turned out. If you have never rolled a tube before, get some cardstock and a dowel, and try it. A little practice goes a long way.
 
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they look great Glen!

Fun with rolling tubes! The "UNITED STATES" tube template has a part that indicates the glue area, but you really should put glue on the opposite side where that area will contact, as shown here. I opted to use a glue stick, a little easier to manage spreading the glue around without using a finger. And I prefer to use a longer dowel that overhangs the tube, a little easier to find a place to grip, I had this 3/8" dowel from a prior cardstock rocket project, wrapped with wax paper so glue does not stick, as much.
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finished all the Zooch kit stock tubes, sometimes less is more
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and from Rosco Racer's template, sometimes more is more:
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I kind of like the combination of the Rosco tanks with the plain white tanks on the right, but could also take the Zooch with the detailed plain tubes on the left. From a distance on the launch pad, any of them would look great.
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Out of this batch of 16 tubes, I had one where I slipped a little and the tube came out uneven at one end, I may redo that one, but overall I am pleased with how they all turned out. If you have never rolled a tube before, get some cardstock and a dowel, and try it. A little practice goes a long way.
 
Many thanks, this build just keeps getting more fun and interesting. since I have all white tanks, I brushed some white paint, a little leftover Testor's bottle from another build, over the spider beams to help blend with any gaps between the tanks.
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I did a few dry test fits with the tank tubes rolled from the different wraps, and decided to go with the detailed wraps from Rosco Racer, they look really nice. And there are some gaps between the tanks, but I tried my best to make them as uniform as possible. The one tank over the engine clip I sliced a slot out of it so it would sit even with the other tanks.
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Building this kit, you will have many t'anks. -- You're welcome!
 
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