Rocket Launches where rockets flew over or recovered over specators - past year?

troj · Jan 3, 2013

ClayD said:
But, please do tell how the increase in number of people decreases an individuals reaction time to move out of a moving rockets path.

Easy - someone isn't paying attention, LCO needs to make a call out, and people need time to react. That doesn't exist when you're 15 feet away.

No way, no how, are you ever going to get everyone to pay attention at a large launch. Heck, even at a launch of 20 people, good luck getting them all to pay attention.

If you put people so close to the pads that there's no way they can be notified and have a chance to react, you've created a situation where you're asking for trouble.

'tis why our club has modrocs at 75+ feet.

-Kevin

stickershock23 · Jan 3, 2013

This is one of those REALLY BAD THINGS...

do we need more regulation in our hobby HECK to the tenth power NO...

So rules help out??? sometimes.. but if we were to make a rule about what way you lauched and what the wind direction is etc etc etc it would just be one more hassle and one more reason for me NOT to want to laucnh with a club/organization.

IS it unsafe?? MAYBE but let me say this then I'll shut upp..

Do rockets sometimes go in a dangerous direction??? YES
is there a chance they might hit something??? YES
Have rockets ever hit anything and caused damge?? YES
has anyone ever been hurt by a falling rocket?? Probably YES
will it happen again??? YES
is this a dangerous hobby in general?? YES

so how do we fix it??? make more rules?? maybe but they wont do any good.

You know what will give the BEST chance of being 100% safe at any launch.. HEADS UP AND PAY ATTENTION PERIOD!!!!!
I cannot STAND going to a launch and seeing a bunch of kids there just playing and not paying attention to whats going on around them... AND their parents are no where to be found or just as oblivious themselves.. THAT IS THE ONLY THING I SEE UNSAFE in this "question" about where rockets go..

I have launched 1000's of rockets maybe even 10's or thousands.. and out of all of them I PROMISE you I could not tell you where ANY of them were gonna land.. heck Point it to the left... it might go left... and it jsut might go right.. there is NO 100% Guarentee. EVER NO MATTER HOW MANY RULES YOU MAKE.. A rocket is going to go where it wants to, and ther is only so much you can do about that.. BUT YOU 100% without a doubt CAN EVERY SINGLE TIME PAY ATTENTION to where rockets are going.. and if you do that I would say No matte r what rules there are and no matter what way you launch and no matter how far away you are... THAT IS THE ONLY WAY to be as safe as possible PERIOD END OF DISCUSSION... now law low rule no guideline EVER will do better than using the old NOODLE PERIOD!!

so my answer to all of this... if you bring your kids with you to a laucnh WATCH THEM and BE RESPONSIBLE for them.. ALWAYS or have someone Watching them or beign responsible... if you cannot do that DONT FREAKING BRING THEM EVER!! if you do that there will never be a problem with some kid not paying attention and getting hurt..

Second thing.. if YOU are attending a laucnh.. ALWAYS 100% of the time PAY ATTENTION to what is going on around you.. ALWAYS...NO SLACKING OFF PERIOD.. if you do this YOU wont get hurt...

third if you see someone NOT paying attention... REMIND THEM that may get them killed.. and maybe they will listen.. (I doubt it,, but it might)

If we all do those simple things we wont need any more rules AND the odds of someone getting hurt will be as low as possible.. PERIOD..

Last thing.. if you are worried about your car or your stuff getting hurt.... you should not be bringing it.. because at ANY launch there 100% without a doubt IS a chance it might get hit by a rocket (very rare chance but it is there) if you do that you will NEVER have a problem with something of yours being damaged nad you having a problem with it... EVER!! understand you are at rocket launch if something MIGHT just damage your stuff.. if you dont like that dont COME TO A LAUNCH.. when you do go to a launch drive the car that if it gets hit or worse you wont cry about it... not that it wont get fixed if it does.. because pretty much EVERY rocket person I have met are good people and I bet 99% would stand up and take care of whatever happens, but that does not mean you should expect it.. because bottom line if I laucnh a rocket at a launch and it hits your car.. or your stuff, legally I dont have to pay for it.. my insurance might NAR might TRA might homeowners might auto ins might.. but there is NO promise EVER. (now if I damge your stuff with my rocket I am going to make it good, but do i have to??? maybe but dont expect it from everyone)

Again bottom line the only way to be 100% safe is YOU PAYING ATTENTION.. if you do you have the best chance of not getting hurt..
and if you dont want something of yours damaged or you cant accept that it might get damaged DONT BRING IT. if you do that you wont EVER have a problem..

my .02 (yeah i am one of those that thinks governing bodies and rules are BS.. and COMMON SENSE and what right should be what rules us... I also know that will never happen..)

Mark

stickershock23 · Jan 3, 2013

oh one more thing... (yeah yeah long winded I know)

I dont care what you launch.. a mosquito on a 1/4... COOL a cluster of P motors COOL a rocket is a rocket.. come out to a launch fly what you want.. and enjoy it.. if you dont like certain rockets because they are not what you are launching... too bad and that is YOUR problem... you deal with it or dont..

We came to laucnh rockets and have fun do both and all is good! if you ant let someone else do the same thing.. thats your problem deal with it.. or dont, but if you dont.. I dont want to hear about it..

troj · Jan 4, 2013

stickershock23 said:
I dont care what you launch.. a mosquito on a 1/4... COOL a cluster of P motors COOL a rocket is a rocket.. come out to a launch fly what you want.. and enjoy it.. if you dont like certain rockets because they are not what you are launching... too bad and that is YOUR problem... you deal with it or dont..

We came to laucnh rockets and have fun do both and all is good! if you ant let someone else do the same thing.. thats your problem deal with it.. or dont, but if you dont.. I dont want to hear about it..

That right there pretty much matches my attitude -- fly what makes you happy. As long as it's legal and safe, nothing else matters, if the flier is happy.

-Kevin

ClayD · Jan 4, 2013

stickershock23 said:
This is one of those REALLY BAD THINGS...

do we need more regulation in our hobby HECK to the tenth power NO...

So rules help out??? sometimes.. but if we were to make a rule about what way you lauched and what the wind direction is etc etc etc it would just be one more hassle and one more reason for me NOT to want to laucnh with a club/organization.

IS it unsafe?? MAYBE but let me say this then I'll shut upp..

Do rockets sometimes go in a dangerous direction??? YES
is there a chance they might hit something??? YES
Have rockets ever hit anything and caused damge?? YES
has anyone ever been hurt by a falling rocket?? Probably YES
will it happen again??? YES
is this a dangerous hobby in general?? YES

so how do we fix it??? make more rules?? maybe but they wont do any good.

You know what will give the BEST chance of being 100% safe at any launch.. HEADS UP AND PAY ATTENTION PERIOD!!!!!
I cannot STAND going to a launch and seeing a bunch of kids there just playing and not paying attention to whats going on around them... AND their parents are no where to be found or just as oblivious themselves.. THAT IS THE ONLY THING I SEE UNSAFE in this "question" about where rockets go..

I have launched 1000's of rockets maybe even 10's or thousands.. and out of all of them I PROMISE you I could not tell you where ANY of them were gonna land.. heck Point it to the left... it might go left... and it jsut might go right.. there is NO 100% Guarentee. EVER NO MATTER HOW MANY RULES YOU MAKE.. A rocket is going to go where it wants to, and ther is only so much you can do about that.. BUT YOU 100% without a doubt CAN EVERY SINGLE TIME PAY ATTENTION to where rockets are going.. and if you do that I would say No matte r what rules there are and no matter what way you launch and no matter how far away you are... THAT IS THE ONLY WAY to be as safe as possible PERIOD END OF DISCUSSION... now law low rule no guideline EVER will do better than using the old NOODLE PERIOD!!

so my answer to all of this... if you bring your kids with you to a laucnh WATCH THEM and BE RESPONSIBLE for them.. ALWAYS or have someone Watching them or beign responsible... if you cannot do that DONT FREAKING BRING THEM EVER!! if you do that there will never be a problem with some kid not paying attention and getting hurt..

Second thing.. if YOU are attending a laucnh.. ALWAYS 100% of the time PAY ATTENTION to what is going on around you.. ALWAYS...NO SLACKING OFF PERIOD.. if you do this YOU wont get hurt...

third if you see someone NOT paying attention... REMIND THEM that may get them killed.. and maybe they will listen.. (I doubt it,, but it might)

If we all do those simple things we wont need any more rules AND the odds of someone getting hurt will be as low as possible.. PERIOD..

Last thing.. if you are worried about your car or your stuff getting hurt.... you should not be bringing it.. because at ANY launch there 100% without a doubt IS a chance it might get hit by a rocket (very rare chance but it is there) if you do that you will NEVER have a problem with something of yours being damaged nad you having a problem with it... EVER!! understand you are at rocket launch if something MIGHT just damage your stuff.. if you dont like that dont COME TO A LAUNCH.. when you do go to a launch drive the car that if it gets hit or worse you wont cry about it... not that it wont get fixed if it does.. because pretty much EVERY rocket person I have met are good people and I bet 99% would stand up and take care of whatever happens, but that does not mean you should expect it.. because bottom line if I laucnh a rocket at a launch and it hits your car.. or your stuff, legally I dont have to pay for it.. my insurance might NAR might TRA might homeowners might auto ins might.. but there is NO promise EVER. (now if I damge your stuff with my rocket I am going to make it good, but do i have to??? maybe but dont expect it from everyone)

Again bottom line the only way to be 100% safe is YOU PAYING ATTENTION.. if you do you have the best chance of not getting hurt..
and if you dont want something of yours damaged or you cant accept that it might get damaged DONT BRING IT. if you do that you wont EVER have a problem..

my .02 (yeah i am one of those that thinks governing bodies and rules are BS.. and COMMON SENSE and what right should be what rules us... I also know that will never happen..)

Mark

I agree with you however, i think its more the seasoned senior rocketeers who dont "heads up" moreso than kids.... Kids generaly listen when told to "move" or "heads up" they may not have a reaction that would be expected because of the lack of rationale, but they generally listen when a loudmouth person yells at them.... Senior rocketeers are often... Dismissive to the danger....

ClayD · Jan 4, 2013

troj said:
Easy - someone isn't paying attention, LCO needs to make a call out, and people need time to react. That doesn't exist when you're 15 feet away.

No way, no how, are you ever going to get everyone to pay attention at a large launch. Heck, even at a launch of 20 people, good luck getting them all to pay attention.

If you put people so close to the pads that there's no way they can be notified and have a chance to react, you've created a situation where you're asking for trouble.

'tis why our club has modrocs at 75+ feet.

-Kevin

yep, but my point is that if 75 feet is minimum for a high population, than by reason you would have to prove why its safe to be closer at lower population.
I dont think anyone here could make a good arguement for that beyond "attention to the activity".

Take for instance removing vendors from flightlines, where everyone is standing around shopping and jaw flapping... (*nearest the launches*) this distraction itself is far more a safety hazard than is the additional 30' of MR distance, as it directly affects someone paying attention....

If the code says 50' is the minimum safe distance, and for logistics you put a vendor 75' away where there are activities that take away from spectators not being aware of the flight, no LCO in the world can affect a warning sufficient to move a person.

Not to say, its a bad thing for a club to determine that for thier own logistics additional distance provides more safety, we have all seen that in action.

jadebox · Jan 4, 2013

ClayD said:
yep, but my point is that if 75 feet is minimum for a high population, than by reason you would have to prove why its safe to be closer at lower population.
I dont think anyone here could make a good arguement for that beyond "attention to the activity".

Actually, that's one good argument for it. A better one, though, is that farther away from the pad, the same number of people will tend to be less densely grouped (because of the larger area). So, it makes sense to require larger groups to be farther away and that smaller groups can be closer. I don't think it needs to be codified, though, since it's something that tends to happen anyway.

If you had a large group of viewers sitting in bleachers (or some other situation where they were densly packed and less able to move), of course, you'd want to be extra careful about the placement of the pads and recovery area. That's why the safety rules are just the starting point.

-- Roger

stickershock23 · Jan 4, 2013

ClayD said:
I agree with you however, i think its more the seasoned senior rocketeers who dont "heads up" moreso than kids.... Kids generaly listen when told to "move" or "heads up" they may not have a reaction that would be expected because of the lack of rationale, but they generally listen when a loudmouth person yells at them.... Senior rocketeers are often... Dismissive to the danger....

I agree with that. I may have used "KIDS" as a generalization!

EVERYONE pay attention and we will be as safe as it gets!

Rocket Launches where rockets flew over or recovered over specators - past year?

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

How many launches past year have you attended w/rockets flew/recovered over/in crowd?

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I have not attended any launches this past year.

troj

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troj

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