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86mustang408w said:
I was thinking using a table saw., you get the idea though? I just wondered if anybody tried it or use it. Your right its probably a bad idea, and its not worth it the rails cheap enough anyways. I should be more concerned about making a base for the rail. I like the gun turret type on apogee, but $450!?! That's a little ridiculous. You could make it for a heck of a lot cheaper than that. I really only need the rail launch pad now for the Gforce.
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The problem with running it through a table saw would be keeping it from rolling as you push it through. Then there's the flexibility of the pipe to deal with. A length of square aluminum tubing would work better, but since the 1010 rail is so inexpensive from Amazon, why bother?

As for the pad, $450 for that pad is crazy! If you wanted and needed a pad that stout, I'm sure you could have one fabricated for less than that. There are several different ways to attach a rail to a pad, but I've never done it. I've always used the rail pads at the club launches.
 
qquake2k said:
The problem with running it through a table saw would be keeping it from rolling as you push it through. Then there's the flexibility of the pipe to deal with. A length of square aluminum tubing would work better, but since the 1010 rail is so inexpensive from Amazon, why bother?

As for the pad, $450 for that pad is crazy! If you wanted and needed a pad that stout, I'm sure you could have one fabricated for less than that. There are several different ways to attach a rail to a pad, but I've never done it. I've always used the rail pads at the club launches.
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Yeah, I agree the price of the rail from Amazon is too cheap to bother, guess I get it from my mom "why buy, when we can make it". I guess I like to be creative and try to build what I can.

Yes I couldn't believe the price of that launch pad! There are no more than $50 of materials in that if you bought them to build yourself, well maybe a little more than $50 I haven't priced stuff like that in a while. And Bubba I saw that post on the jaw stand, I think that may be my launch pad, the rail from Amazon and the Rockwell. Thanks again guys, you've all been patient and helpfull. :)
 
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Does the Gforce kit come with rail buttons? And if not, what size do I need for it? If I have to order them separately, I'm gonna get a few pairs for my other rockets. What size does the 1010 rail accept, and any preference on rail buttons?
 
Have you thought about how you'll attach the rail buttons to your G-Force?
 
qquake2k said:
Have you thought about how you'll attach the rail buttons to your G-Force?
Click to expand...

I have no idea, ill have to figure something out. Its almost gonna have to be launched from some kind of a rail system, would it not? Id like to launch the Gforce, Leviatha and Mega RDM from the rail launch "pad".
 
The Gforce will fly fine off a 1/4 inch rod for G and baby H engines. Once you get into the bigger H engines (higher impulse) rod whip can become an issue. I see them fly all the time off rods as long as the wind is not too strong and the rest of the pad is adequate for rockets of this size. Rail buttons are usually screwed in to the centering ring (plywood) and the Gforce has the finlock system. You could use well nuts to add them and be able to fly it both ways.
 
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86mustang408w said:
I have no idea, ill have to figure something out. Its almost gonna have to be launched from some kind of a rail system, would it not? Id like to launch the Gforce, Leviatha and Mega RDM from the rail launch "pad".
Click to expand...

For rockets already built, well nuts are probably the easiest way. For rockets that aren't built yet, what I always do is epoxy blocks to the centering rings to screw the rail buttons into.

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?46071-New-scratch-build-X-Plane-SST&p=444572#post444572

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?46071-New-scratch-build-X-Plane-SST&p=445377#post445377

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?46071-New-scratch-build-X-Plane-SST&p=447189#post447189

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?46071-New-scratch-build-X-Plane-SST&p=451554#post451554

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?46071-New-scratch-build-X-Plane-SST&p=451558#post451558
 
qquake2k said:
For rockets already built, well nuts are probably the easiest way. For rockets that aren't built yet, what I always do is epoxy blocks to the centering rings to screw the rail buttons into.

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?46071-New-scratch-build-X-Plane-SST&p=444572#post444572

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?46071-New-scratch-build-X-Plane-SST&p=445377#post445377

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?46071-New-scratch-build-X-Plane-SST&p=447189#post447189

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?46071-New-scratch-build-X-Plane-SST&p=451554#post451554

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?46071-New-scratch-build-X-Plane-SST&p=451558#post451558
Click to expand...

None of my bigger(or small sized to you guys :)..) are built yet. Being the Gforce is almost 5ft tall I thought it would be better to have something a bit more stable that a "E" porta pad 2 and a 60" 1/4" rod. Plus I'm really getting back into this hobby, I'm sure in gonna have some larger rockets in the future. Ok qquake ill check out the links. Ill probably buy a 10 pack like you suggested earlier.

I thought launching a Gforce would be a bit safer off a rail, but if you guys really think I don't need one, ill wait on it.
 
A six foot 1/4 Rod will work, "E" porta pad will not. Not big enough for that size rocket.
 
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86mustang408w said:
I thought launching a Gforce would be a bit safer off a rail, but if you guys really think I don't need one, ill wait on it.
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For mid power, I always launch off a rail. At least now I do. The Slipstream is the biggest rocket I built with launch lugs. It's 3" diameter, and weighs under 3 lbs. Never had a problem with the 1/4" rod, but I still prefer rails.

Image00152.jpg

Image00154.jpg

Image00161.jpg

IMGP8295.JPG
 
I prefer rails also, but both will work. If you launch with a club they usually provide the gear and controllers. There are plenty of do it yourself launch pad plans out there to guide you. Here is one:

https://vatsaas.org/rtv/support/launchpad.aspx

If you search TRF and the archive for the original TRF you will find many other designs. Rod based ones tend to be simpler to build. My pad is made of pipes welded together in a tripod with a bolt that clamps down on a rod or a rail. I would recommend going to an organized club launch and looking at their setups. Whatever design you choose it should be big enough and heavy enough that there is not a chance of it tipping over.
 
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qquake2k said:
For mid power, I always launch off a rail. At least now I do. The Slipstream is the biggest rocket I built with launch lugs. It's 3" diameter, and weighs under 3 lbs. Never had a problem with the 1/4" rod, but I still prefer rails.
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I agree with you, I'm gonna go for a rail on the bigger ones. The saftey factor is worth it. Your pictures are making me jealous..
 
86mustang408w said:
Does the Gforce kit come with rail buttons? And if not, what size do I need for it? If I have to order them separately, I'm gonna get a few pairs for my other rockets. What size does the 1010 rail accept, and any preference on rail buttons?
Click to expand...

Also have had very good luck with the ACME conformal rail guides, they just glue on to the outside of the tube.

Kenny
 
86mustang408w said:
I agree with you, I'm gonna go for a rail on the bigger ones. The saftey factor is worth it. Your pictures are making me jealous..
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No need to be jealous. It's just been a progression. One of my first builds as a BAR was the Estes Big Daddy. Over the last three years, I've progressed from smaller kits to bigger kits, then smaller scratch builds to bigger scratch builds. I've been learning as I go. I never intended to go high power, but somewhere along the line I got my Level 1 and Level 2. My Level 1 was a kit (LOC Minie Magg) and my Level 2 was a scratch build (The Shadow). The key is to start small, and don't set your sights too high. Make sure you can achieve your goals, make sure you have the tools and expertise to accomplish what you want. You'll gain experience as you go, and learn new techniques. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - this forum is THE reason I've accomplished what I have. I couldn't have done it without the advice and suggestions of the great guys here.

lunar_launch_021310_051.JPG

Image00089.jpg

IMGP2063edit.jpg
 
qquake2k said:
No need to be jealous. It's just been a progression. One of my first builds as a BAR was the Estes Big Daddy. Over the last three years, I've progressed from smaller kits to bigger kits, then smaller scratch builds to bigger scratch builds. I've been learning as I go. I never intended to go high power, but somewhere along the line I got my Level 1 and Level 2. My Level 1 was a kit (LOC Minie Magg) and my Level 2 was a scratch build (The Shadow). The key is to start small, and don't set your sights too high. Make sure you can achieve your goals, make sure you have the tools and expertise to accomplish what you want. You'll gain experience as you go, and learn new techniques. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - this forum is THE reason I've accomplished what I have. I couldn't have done it without the advice and suggestions of the great guys here.
Click to expand...

Yes I agree this forum has been really educative in just the month I've been a member. Yeah. I thought about it its better I start smaller, I may not got bigger than the Gforce. I guess it would be dumb to build anything bigger than it for my first serious build anyways. I guess I'm saying id hate to build a HPR and not like it, while I can spend money on the ones I know I will. I was gonna ask where did you get your 10pk of rail buttons?

And I'm kind of thinking it may be overkill to buy that rail system for launching right now. My biggest rocket will be the Gforce. And the 3rd picture from the left, I saw that a couple days ago and posted it as my background wallpaper, hope that's ok?! Its one of the coolest pictures I've seen in a while..
 
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I don't think anyone here would talk you out of a rail. if you're going to build something, and eventually grow anyways, may as well rail it up now. In a year you'll be doing bigger rockets, and it's better to only need one pad, and not have a bunch of rockets with lugs and have to figure out how to retro fit buttons onto them.

Either way will work, and certainly nothing wrong with a rod....but I'd go rail....and did.
 
Many great suggestions here, but one to add is try a fin rocket. I love them. Best place to start is with a Pemberton Kraken. A very fun rocket to build and fly and has spawned a number of mini and a super sized Kraken as well.
 
86mustang408w said:
Yes I agree this forum has been really educative in just the month I've been a member. Yeah. I thought about it its better I start smaller, I may not got bigger than the Gforce. I guess it would be dumb to build anything bigger than it for my first serious build anyways. I guess I'm saying id hate to build a HPR and not like it, while I can spend money on the ones I know I will. I was gonna ask where did you get your 10pk of rail buttons?

And I'm kind of thinking it may be overkill to buy that rail system for launching right now. My biggest rocket will be the Gforce. And the 3rd picture from the left, I saw that a couple days ago and posted it as my background wallpaper, hope that's ok?! Its one of the coolest pictures I've seen in a while..
Click to expand...

I get my rail buttons from Dog House Rocketry. He also has them with well nuts for retrofitting.

https://doghouse.blastzone.org/DogHouseRocketry/Rail_Buttons.html

I'd still build a pad with a rail. Even if you never go high power, it will serve you very well for mid power. Plus, rails are just so much cooler than rods! LOL

I don't mind at all about the photo. That was my Level 2 flight. My son took the photo, so I'm doubly proud of it!
 
qquake2k said:
I get my rail buttons from Dog House Rocketry. He also has them with well nuts for retrofitting.

https://doghouse.blastzone.org/DogHouseRocketry/Rail_Buttons.html

I'd still build a pad with a rail. Even if you never go high power, it will serve you very well for mid power. Plus, rails are just so much cooler than rods! LOL

I don't mind at all about the photo. That was my Level 2 flight. My son took the photo, so I'm doubly proud of it!
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Do you have a program you use to print your own decals? I'm gonna get some rail buttons with the well nuts, thanks for posting that.
 
86mustang408w said:
Do you have a program you use to print your own decals? I'm gonna get some rail buttons with the well nuts, thanks for posting that.
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I've only ever made decals once, for my Blood Sucker. I used an old old version of Photoshop that I've had for years. I printed them on the color laser printer at work.

blood_sucker.jpg

94_decal.jpg
 
qquake2k said:
I've only ever made decals once, for my Blood Sucker. I used an old old version of Photoshop that I've had for years. I printed them on the color laser printer at work.
Click to expand...

Ok, ill figure something out. I just started PT after my last surgery on my shoulder. As soon as I can I'm gonna start building these rockets. I got the 10/10 rail, jawstand, and just ordered rail buttons with well nuts from doghouse this weekend. Do you know where I can find info on engine numbers? I know what a D12-3 means, but no clue on F or G engines. Id like to understand them more. Good luck with your other builds ill keep an eye on them, and ill post pictures for all once I get more use of my arm. Thanks for the help.
 
86mustang408w said:
I forgot to ask, what glue/epoxy do you use? I bought some Gorilla Glue, but not sure if its the best. Thanks again, Michael B.
Click to expand...

depends, what for?

8403945370_dfcdf3c5c5_c.jpg

8402956369_815bfcd4a5_c.jpg


Many glues/epoxies ..... many uses....
 
86mustang408w said:
Ok, ill figure something out. I just started PT after my last surgery on my shoulder. As soon as I can I'm gonna start building these rockets. I got the 10/10 rail, jawstand, and just ordered rail buttons with well nuts from doghouse this weekend. Do you know where I can find info on engine numbers? I know what a D12-3 means, but no clue on F or G engines. Id like to understand them more. Good luck with your other builds ill keep an eye on them, and ill post pictures for all once I get more use of my arm. Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...

There's this on the NAR website. I'm sure others here will have some links, too.

https://nar.org/NARmotors.html

86mustang408w said:
I forgot to ask, what glue/epoxy do you use? I bought some Gorilla Glue, but not sure if its the best. Thanks again, Michael B.
Click to expand...

I use 5 or 15 minute two-part epoxy almost exclusively. I usually get it from Hobbylinc, but I've bought it at my local hobby shop, too.

https://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/hlc/hlc202.htm
 
86mustang408w said:
Ok, ill figure something out. I just started PT after my last surgery on my shoulder. As soon as I can I'm gonna start building these rockets. I got the 10/10 rail, jawstand, and just ordered rail buttons with well nuts from doghouse this weekend. Do you know where I can find info on engine numbers? I know what a D12-3 means, but no clue on F or G engines. Id like to understand them more. Good luck with your other builds ill keep an eye on them, and ill post pictures for all once I get more use of my arm. Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...

from https://www.dinosaursrock.com/rocketclub.html:
RocketEngines2.jpg


But here's what's REALLY going to blow your mind..... While Estes makes a few motors in each catagory A-E, once you get into F and above you see dozens of motors. What makes them different if they all fit into the same impulse category? Thrust curves. The letter gives a basic idea of the total Impluse, the first number gives the average thrust, and the last is the ejection delay. To really know what a motor is going to do for you, you've got to look at the thrust curves (which are shown for each motor in the aerotech and cesoroni catalogs, and various websites)

https://www.thrustcurve.org/motorstats.shtml

Here's some of the aerotech reloadables:
attachment.php



Motor info from Aerotech and CTI:

https://www.pro38.com/catalogs.php
https://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/products.aspx
 
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