Fliskits Dead Ringer

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That is a nice looking launch rack. looks like ya had some good flights.
I got to fly my DR on Sunday and forgot that i installed the plastic stramer and not the teflon that i normally use. it scorched the streamer but enough deployed to get it back safe
 
Lindsey and Tiger rushed to find the rocket but were unable to locate the cone.


MR. Flis, be expecting another order from me soon.

John:
Sorry to hear your NC was lost. I have two remedies that have served me very well over the last several years.

1) Always use a minimum of 36" of shockline regardless of the size of the micro model. Yes I hear your frustration about packing but believe me, extensive flights and testing has PROVEN shorter lines do NOT last very long. The use of an 1/8" and/or 3/16" dia. hardwood dowel "Stuffer rod" has been one of my most used and sanity saving tools.

2) replace the very light shocklines provided with most kits with 70-90lb twisted or braided kevlar line. A single spool from the thread exchange will last you a very long time. Believe it or not I've found NO matter how small the Micro model 90lb twisted Kevlar shockline of 30-36" length will fit along with a 1/2" x 9 to 12" teflon streamer.......Really; IT works. NOTE! only use 30" if space is really cramped in a very Short T2+ bodytube and your using 90lb line.

Of my 165 Micro models I can't recall the last time I've had to replace a 70-90lb kevlar shockline before the model had 20-25 flights. However! every darn one that was outfitted with lighter lines 50lb and below rarely last more then 4 or 5 flights regardless of length and yes I have tested longer lighter shocklines with only slightly longer longevity. Currently I'm using 49strand stainless beading wire as short Shockline Anchors with 70-90lb Kevlar 36" lines above in most of my T3 and larger Micro models.

I'm about to start building my Dead Ringer kit that's been sitting in the Que since before Christmas. I'll try to remember to take some closeup pics of the Shockcord alterations in the process.

Not saying I have all the answers but over a decade of building and flying almost nothing but micro models has provided some hard tested flying insights. Hope this info will help a little.
 
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That is so odd that you've lost cones twice. Was it cord breakage or detachment from the cone?

Also, some good news in that regard. To date our micro to the maxx kits have been made using #16 Kevlar. We are in the process of upgrading to #35 Kevlar which should help a great deal while still being thin enough to make packing somewhat manageable :)

jim
 
That is so odd that you've lost cones twice. Was it cord breakage or detachment from the cone?

Also, some good news in that regard. To date our micro to the maxx kits have been made using #16 Kevlar. We are in the process of upgrading to #35 Kevlar which should help a great deal while still being thin enough to make packing somewhat manageable :)

jim

Jim:
Can you give us a comparison #16 & #35 kevlar threads, what are the thread diameters or break strength? Who's numbers are being used?

For instance I have #69 Thread that looks to be the same diameter as the material in the last couple Micro Fliskits. My #69 is .014" in diameter with a break strength of 28-30lbs.

#207 thread is .025" dia. with a 90lb break strength. These numbers are are both from The Thread Exchange.
 
Jim:
Can you give us a comparison #16 & #35 kevlar threads, what are the thread diameters or break strength? Who's numbers are being used?

For instance I have #69 Thread that looks to be the same diameter as the material in the last couple Micro Fliskits. My #69 is .014" in diameter with a break strength of 28-30lbs.

#207 thread is .025" dia. with a 90lb break strength. These numbers are are both from The Thread Exchange.

Micro,

The spool is listed as "size 92" (also from the thread exchange), natural, bonded. It measure about .015 (hard to be precise) with a rated strength of 35 lbs. Rough comparison shows it to be about twice the bulk of the original 16 lbs stuff we used.

I've uploaded a couple of photo's showing the 16 lbs (on the lower left) vrs the 35 lbs (upper right) and you can clearly see the difference. The 16 lbs stuff measures in at around .006" dia.

hope this helps.
jim

DSC06284.JPG

DSC06285.JPG
 
Micro,

The spool is listed as "size 92" (also from the thread exchange), natural, bonded. It measure about .015 (hard to be precise) with a rated strength of 35 lbs. Rough comparison shows it to be about twice the bulk of the original 16 lbs stuff we used.

I've uploaded a couple of photo's showing the 16 lbs (on the lower left) vrs the 35 lbs (upper right) and you can clearly see the difference. The 16 lbs stuff measures in at around .006" dia.

hope this helps.
jim

Got it! When you are talking 16 and 35 your talking about break strength. 10-4!
Yep I know what ya mean about being precise with the thread sizes, the black Kevlar I've been using lately which is listed as 90lb break strength has a lable on the bottom that shows the thread size and 210? not 207 and is .025" in dia rather then .022" Yet the Natural color(yellow) spool purchase the same time from the same place shows the other dimensions & 90lb test break strength.

Another little factoid I picked up recently concerning Kevlar.
While the material does NOT burn it does start to decompose at 800°F. As this was explained to me by the Dow chemist, as the line is exposed to high heat over 800°F, that part of the line turns to ash and gets a bit thinner in that immediate area with each exposure to that temp level. Add the stress of ejection and we can have line failure at fairly low tension levels.
What this has confirmed for me it that longer shocklines are as important as the initial strength of the line. If we have a long enough shockline allowing the ejected part(s) to slow down before reaching the end of the length, we can use a lighter line break strenght, but must do more to protect it from the degrading heat at it's anchor point.
This gives more credit to the use of Heat resistant Stainless or titanium beading wire Shockcord anchors and prehaps adding a bit of Teflon tape as a protective wrap at the junction loop? Agh! what that heck! Just stick with the thicker/longer line and don't worry to much about it..... how many models get 20+ flights before we lose or total them anyway?

Back to the Dead Ringer Thread!

I started mine last night.
JAL3; I used 38" of the #210 thread black 90lb twirsted kevlar as my shockline. It fits easily with a 1/2" x 12" yellow teflon streamer in the main T2+ Bodytube....using my 1/8" dowel pusher that is! Ya gotta try one!

I found a single wrap of masking tape on the 1/4" inserted part of the coupler made for a much easier centering & alignment between the two glued parts.
Wow! this model does go together quickly!
No Pics yet, I haven't downloaded them from the camera.
 
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Downloading most of the photos from my digital camera today.

Here are a couple of the build photos on my Dead Ringer. Some of the modifications were talked about earlier.
I think one that helped alignment of the MMX motor tube & coupler was adding a single warp of 1/4" wide masking tape. used with white glue its like adding a wrap of thick paper to the outside of the coupling which really helps align the two pieces in the very short 1/4" area. this little trick also allowed me to cut the remaining end of the coupling at 1" long saving just a little extra mass from the overall model.

The other major substitution is the shockline and streamer. As we discussed earlier i'm using 1 36" piece of Black twisted 90lb kevlar in place of the 24" x 16lb kevlar suppled in the kit. Knotted and installed per the directions it works and packs in the T2+ body tube easily along with the 1/2" x 12" yellow military grade Kevlar streamer/wadding.

MM 366uc01a_Flis Dead Ringer Parts & options_02-23-10.jpg

MM 366uc02a_BT coupling shortened & wrap of tape_02-23-10.jpg

MM 366uc02b_Motor tube coupling glued_02-23-10.jpg

MM 366uc03a_after joining BT & 3 Rign assembly_02-23-10.jpg

MM 366uc03b_Close-UP BT-60 rings-T2+ Joint_02-23-10.jpg
 
have to hand it to Mr Flis:
The Ring Fin reinforceing Cardstock fins give an elegants most of us mis when designing. Very KEWL look and really nifty way to add strength without much extra mass to the model:)

MM 366uc04a_installing last ring reinforcements_02-26-10.jpg

MM 366uc04b_Close-Up ring reinforcement & LL's_02-26-10.jpg
 
Over the last little while I've discovered adding a Kevlar loop to most Balsa and Basswood nosecones offers a couple advantages over just gluing in the shockline and/or adding a nail.

By hollow out a good bit of the interior I can bury the loop far down inside the cone and leave lots of room for noseweight placed further forward. this allows the use of a little less weight in a lot of cases. This is particualarly true in micros where moving CG 1/32" of an inch can make all the difference between stable and unstable flights:)
The loop also gives me options as to where and how many streamers or chutes can be attached.
In this case i just added the loop and inserted the provided nail. but it also allows the shock line to be attached and removed if needed. I'm using 3 half hitches these days. the third Half hitch is more or less just a safety so when I cut off the excess if I get a little to close to the knot i'm still left with 2 half hitches no matter what:)

MM 366uc05a_Dead Ringer HJ Nc alteration_02-23-10.jpg

MM 366uc05b_HJNC Closeup with added Loop_02-26-10.jpg

MM 366uc05c_Shockline attached with 3-Half Hitches_02-26-10.jpg

MM 366uc05d_CloseUp 3-Half Hitches_02-26-10.jpg
 
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A couple of times I've heard folks complaining about the time it takes to pack or repack shocklines and streamers in Micro models especially minimum diameter (T2+) models like the Dead Ringer.

I've mentioned a couple time one of my favorite discoveries...the Stuffer Stick. This Tool is nothing more the a 3/16" x 4" hardwood dowel that has been sharpend to a short point on one end. I added a custom pocket clip from scrap 1/4" styrene tube and an old mechanical pencil spring clip to keep the tool handy and Pocket Ready in the field.

the last 3 or 4 shots are of the 1/2" x 12" teflon wadding/streamer and 36" x 90lb kevlar shockline being loading in our T2+ body with room to spare...it less the 20 seconds. John you really need to make yourself one of these, it take all the fight out of repacking chutes and streamers as well as helping to tamp wadding into MMX-II nozzles to hold nichrome igniters:)

MM 366uc06a_.5inx12in Teflon& 36in90lb Kevlar_02-26-10.jpg

MM 366uc06b_Streamer fold-Rolled ready_02-26-10.jpg

MM 366uc06c_Shockline & Streamer nearly packed_02-26-10.jpg

MM 366uc07a_Fillets applied ready for finishing_02-26-10.jpg

MM Stuffer Stick-c_Shockline Stuffing Stick 2pic_02-02-01.jpg
 
Great tips and mods, Micro! :) Have you had a chance to fly the Dead Ringer yet? She's a pretty one in the air and stays low enough to actually WATCH the flight... :)
 
I've mentioned a couple time one of my favorite discoveries...the Stuffer Stick. This Tool is nothing more the a 3/16" x 4" hardwood dowel

This was the very first trick I learned from John. Man am I glad I did. I even took it one step farther and roll my streamer up with it. Sure saves a lot of time when prepping up 6 or 7 mmx's at once.

The dead ringer was a real crowd pleaser at the park the other day. Flies great!!!
 
I was planning or ordering a new NC from Fliskits but that won't be happening now.

My son stepped on and crunched my Dead Ringer along with one other MMX. It is well and truly dead.
 

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OUCH! Man, it's rough to loose rockets like that...

My very first proto Intergalactic man of Space was destroyed like that... I've also stepped on them myself while recovering them...

man...
 
Sorry to hear that was a nice looking rocket. But on the other hand it gives you a excuse to order some more :)
 
OH Man John! I'm so sorry to hear about let alone See the carnage:( Ouch! is right... hope they both can be saved or salvaged.

Jim:
Nope we've been Snowed out of launches the last couple months. This weekends flying was also scrubbed. I'm not quite ready to fly my Dead Ringer yet thou as she's still unpainted. Was hoping to get 4 new models in the paint shop this week. we'll see. Micro Midget Two stage, Dead Ringer, 3's-a-Charm, and Stinger.
 
a little update on the status of my Flis Dead Ringer.

got it mostly painted still deciding if I'm going to do anything with the inside rings as originally planned. I've kinda decided I like it with the same color ID.
anyway decided finished or not I wanted to fly it last weekend.

10mph plus breezes are not this models friend, but KEWL in flight anyway.

MM 366uc08_Dead Ringer_Primer 360grit Sanded_03-16-10.JPG

Dead Ringer & 3's-A-Charm_Yellow & Orange applied_03-17-10.JPG

MM 366Lp01a_Flis Dead Ringer MMX on pad_03-20-10.JPG

MM 366Lp01b_Flis Dead Ringer MMX midFlt_03-20-10.JPG
 
Thanks I'm still messing with it, sometimes these little things bug me more the larger models LOL!!! Hope to get some more photo in the next day or so.

Heres the latest photo...I think i'm done...I don't know?? we'll see LOL!!!!

MM 366p01_MM Flis Dead Ringer_03-30-10.jpg
 
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I figure it's better to just add on here than start another thread... this way its like one stop shopping. Oui or no?

Edit: Should I do my build here or a new thread?

2011-12-31-Dead-Ringer-0001.jpg
 
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I figure it's better to just add on here than start another thread... this way its like one stop shopping. Oui or no?

Edit: Should I do my build here or a new thread?

Me? I'd go with a new thread so yours doesn't get confused (or ignored) with the one that everyone thinks that they already looked at. Also makes it easier to search for the "gdjsky build thread" later on.
 
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