Estes Mini Honest John, alternate paint scheme

Wow, it's amazing how many rockets get built when you retire.*

Here's a quick shot of a very rapid build of the relatively recent Mini Honest John release from Estes. Being a obsessive scale type there was simply no way the absurdly inaccurate "US MILITARY" decal was going to be used, so I went looking for alternate schemes. Google favored me with a great shot of a development round of the beastie that could be completed with black decal film. I've attached the reference photo and a peek at the finished model. (I may yet hit it with a dullcoat.)

The launch lug and motor hook were omitted and the model will launch using a simple fixed-head piston launcher.

James

* My brief "retirement" will be coming to an end in just over a month when I return to school. I had NO idea that I would get this bored this quickly, so consider this fair warning to those of you considering an exit from the ranks of the employed. Had I known I might have toiled away in the mines for a few more weeks.

That really did turn out very nicely James ,looks like a very smooth finish ,and i do prefer that test round color scheme.I used that same scheme on my second Estes Maxi-HoJo before they went OOP. I was lucky to get two more from Darrell Mobely before he passed on ,so I have two more to build.

Take care


Paul t

Cool livery, well done.

Check this out, found it on the Honest John wiki page; all Sarin gas bomblets in one variant of the HJ warhead:

James Duffy said:

Wow, it's amazing how many rockets get built when you retire.*

Here's a quick shot of a very rapid build of the relatively recent Mini Honest John release from Estes. Being a obsessive scale type there was simply no way the absurdly inaccurate "US MILITARY" decal was going to be used, so I went looking for alternate schemes. Google favored me with a great shot of a development round of the beastie that could be completed with black decal film. I've attached the reference photo and a peek at the finished model. (I may yet hit it with a dullcoat.)

The launch lug and motor hook were omitted and the model will launch using a simple fixed-head piston launcher.

James

* My brief "retirement" will be coming to an end in just over a month when I return to school. I had NO idea that I would get this bored this quickly, so consider this fair warning to those of you considering an exit from the ranks of the employed. Had I known I might have toiled away in the mines for a few more weeks.

Click to expand...

This is one I'd like to copy to the gallery if I may.

beautiful job!!

James Duffy said:

Wow, it's amazing how many rockets get built when you retire.*

Here's a quick shot of a very rapid build of the relatively recent Mini Honest John release from Estes. Being a obsessive scale type there was simply no way the absurdly inaccurate "US MILITARY" decal was going to be used, so I went looking for alternate schemes. Google favored me with a great shot of a development round of the beastie that could be completed with black decal film. I've attached the reference photo and a peek at the finished model. (I may yet hit it with a dullcoat.)

The launch lug and motor hook were omitted and the model will launch using a simple fixed-head piston launcher.

James

* My brief "retirement" will be coming to an end in just over a month when I return to school. I had NO idea that I would get this bored this quickly, so consider this fair warning to those of you considering an exit from the ranks of the employed. Had I known I might have toiled away in the mines for a few more weeks.

Click to expand...

JAL3 said:

This is one I'd like to copy to the gallery if I may.

Click to expand...

Please feel free to do so!

James

James Duffy said:

Wow, it's amazing how many rockets get built when you retire.*

Here's a quick shot of a very rapid build of the relatively recent Mini Honest John release from Estes. Being a obsessive scale type there was simply no way the absurdly inaccurate "US MILITARY" decal was going to be used, so I went looking for alternate schemes. Google favored me with a great shot of a development round of the beastie that could be completed with black decal film. I've attached the reference photo and a peek at the finished model. (I may yet hit it with a dullcoat.)

The launch lug and motor hook were omitted and the model will launch using a simple fixed-head piston launcher.

James

* My brief "retirement" will be coming to an end in just over a month when I return to school. I had NO idea that I would get this bored this quickly, so consider this fair warning to those of you considering an exit from the ranks of the employed. Had I known I might have toiled away in the mines for a few more weeks.

Click to expand...

That looks awesome! I built the Mini HJ as my Thanksgiving break project. I agree the supplied decals are.....well....let's not go there. The kit is great otherwise I think. I haven't painted mine yet, and have been thinking of just painting it strait OD green, but might reconsider that now....

As an aside question, and hopefully no too off topic (apologies if so), does anyone know where I can find that mini-engine mount for a custom job (without having to buy a kit for parts, which remains an option)?

Without attempting a Hijack as well, has anyone tried making the Fins larger/more like the Honest John with the larger fins? Forgive me, I'm trying to be an Honest John expert, but failing miserably.


Jester

Good work there! I also liked the black and white livery of the development rounds; the Estes kit from the 70's was done this way, with that big balsa cone and the shroud you had to form. I miss that rocket...

BMG22 said:

As an aside question, and hopefully no too off topic (apologies if so), does anyone know where I can find that mini-engine mount for a custom job (without having to buy a kit for parts, which remains an option)?

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If you're talking about a motor mount for a 13mm motor, just use a BT-5 body tube and the appropriate centering rings. You can also use part of the BT-5 with a section cut out as a motor block.

Unless I'm interpreting your question wrong...

DarkJester said:

has anyone tried making the Fins larger/more like the Honest John with the larger fins?

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There were two significantly different variants of the HJ, the M31 (big fins) and the M50 (small fins.) The M31 was slightly longer; I'm not sure if the nose cone was the same shape or not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGR-1_Honest_John

DarkJester said:

Without attempting a Hijack as well, has anyone tried making the Fins larger/more like the Honest John with the larger fins? Forgive me, I'm trying to be an Honest John expert, but failing miserably.


Jester

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Jester, I am no expert myself, so I want to tell you about the little that I know. The first HJ with the big fins was the MGR-31A, and had four spin rockets at the nose. The one in this thread, which has two spin rockets, detachable rail guides, and a tail cone under those smaller fins was an MGR-31B, later made into the MGR-50. It also had other designations such as the M-1A, and the M-1B. You can also find it as the M-50. The small fin rocket was about 3 feet shorter also, but had a more powerful solid fuel motor. Depending on the source(s), and I am not the authority, so I can and will be wrong all day long, depending on who you talk to; everything I just wrote will be wrong. My source was a U.S. Army Colonel, who was stationed at White Sands during the late 60's that I wrote to, when trying to get more information to build a scale model for a NARAM project. He sent me about 10 - 8 X 10 black and white, and color glossies of both rockets and a drawing of the newer rocket with dimensions. I think I still have all of this hidden in my archives. I did a RockSim of the smaller HJ and it was gogin to be unstable unless I added a lot of weight to the nose. I always wanted to build one with the truck and take it to a NARAM as a Space Systems entry. Never could get it all pulled together. I was in high school then. I could probably do it now, but I have not figured out the need yet.

As for the bird in this thread, it looks like a beautiful build and I am envious. I hope it flies as good as it looks.

Thanks for the Reply.
If I understand correctly then, the Estes Mini Honest John is a close representation of the MGR-50 or MGR-31B.
The Smaller fins, then, are correct for this block (revision).
I went and bought one to assemble over the Holidays, I hope I can get to it.

Thanks for the info, it has been "membered", we ain't been slack. Hopefully I can remember it long enough to tell the tale...

(if you missed that, it's an obscure Thunderdome reference)

Thanks again,

Jester

mikec said:

There were two significantly different variants of the HJ, the M31 (big fins) and the M50 (small fins.) The M31 was slightly longer; I'm not sure if the nose cone was the same shape or not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGR-1_Honest_John

Click to expand...

I have one of the drawing of the MGR-31A that G. Harry Stine drew. It said the radius of the forward part of the nose was a 3-caliber tangent ogive. I took this to my high school drafting teacher in 1968 and he had no idea what it was talking about. With computers, I have been able to research and learn what that meant, but it was really confusing to us 40+ years ago.

Since the diameters of both rockets are the same, it is probable that both noses are the same also. This will take a bit more research, but I know it can be done.

The M50 has recessed two sets of spin motors recessed between the warhead and the motor. The M31 has four sets of spin motors that protrude from the the same area.

Your right Mike, and I beleive they were mounted in the nose cone taper segment. In the big taper, it would be easy to re-engineer that segment leaving the warhead untouched in the first segment. There were two spin motors in each of the thrusters and they did not fire until the rocket left the rail.

I also read that the rocket was not ransported to the launch site assembled, but was moved to the launch location, uncovered, and had the fins mounted, and the remaining details in preparation for firing.

I once saw an interesting video (movie, this was 1971) at a place that I worked that made guidance systems for smart bombs. They mounted one of the guidance units (laser detection unit) on the nose of a little john artillery rocket. The rocket was launched, without a warhead at White Sands down in Alamogordo, NM. The target, in detail, was the groin of a male dummy, sitting behind the wheel of a 2 1/2 ton army truck. The rocket went in through the passenger window of the truck, and literally pushed the rocket under the sands. It was so cool to see something like that in operation.

mwtoelle said:

The M50 has recessed two sets of spin motors recessed between the warhead and the motor. The M31 has four sets of spin motors that protrude from the the same area.

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M31 had 3 sets of spin motors while the later M50 had 4 as can clearly be seen in the photos.
Hope these help a little with alternate paint schemes.

Micromeister, In the upper photograph, which I have an 8 X 10 color glossy that I received from the army a long time ago, I thought the same. The third plume in the photograph is actually a cloud in the background. If you look closley in the photograph, you can see the launch rail guides falling away, also. I also am not trying to argue with you in my next comment. I am confused because it was my understanding that the bottom photo is the MGR-31A, and the upper photo is the MGR-31B/MGR-50/M50/M1. On the other hand I could be all wrong and all wet. My wife tells me that I stink and do need a shower today, so all wet could be good!

I am almost done converting the Estes Mini Honest John in to the M31 version.

View attachment 118224

Some of the best resolution files I've found online for various Honest John paint schemes.

View attachment 118501

more.

View attachment 118506View attachment 118508

even more.

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more bits & bob.

View attachment Mini HONEST JOHN Test Version.pdf

View attachment Maxi Honest john.pdf

View attachment stencilia_font.zip

Brent, Your HJ model photo looks to be the MGR-31A because of the shape of the fins and the 4 external sets of spin rockets. Those frequently had different paint schemes. In the photos in notes 19, 20, and 21 are both rockets. In note 19, pics 1, 2, 3, & 5 are of the first generation, the 31A. In note 20, pics 2 & 3 are of the 31A. In note 21, the only picture of the 31A is picture 4B, bottom photo. All the rest are the MGR-31B. As you have probably already noticed and learned, on the 31B/M-50, the Overall Length (OAL) is shorter. There is a boat-tail. The fins are smaller, and of a different profile; which will require nose weight, according to the RockSim I did of the 31B, and the spin rockets in the nose are inserted into the nose cone instead of external, like on the 31A, and there are only two sets of two.

mikec said:

There were two significantly different variants of the HJ, the M31 (big fins) and the M50 (small fins.) The M31 was slightly longer; I'm not sure if the nose cone was the same shape or not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGR-1_Honest_John

Click to expand...

The nose cone was slightly different. Without consulting the numbers that I have somewhere on this computer. One nose was a couple of inches longer than the other, and the ogive section was 10" longer (and the conical section was 10" shorter, plus or minus the other couple of inches) on one than the other. The spin rockets, two internal clusters of two at 180 degrees apart on one, four external clusters of two at 90 degrees apart on the older, were also different.

tomm said:

more bits & bob.

View attachment 118516

View attachment 118517

View attachment 118518

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Thanks for sharing, tomm.

For me the mini- test version isn't scaled quite right. My printout was exactly the scale on the pdf, but the image isn't long enough for the kit's size (the diameter is correct)....


Mikey