CJ's "HOW TO BUILD A DARKSTAR 3 OR ANY GLASS KIT BUILD" STARTS

I'd recommend gloves. Also, I bet it won't stick to nylon or delrin, so it would just come off cleanly once cured if it were thick enough on the tool.

blackjack2564 said:

Finally I don't know if using the black stuff is advisable for first time or raw-recruits to use, it's messy [you will get it on you!] and a bit tricky to use. Once mastered it's the bomb. Ya might want to try it on a 3 finned model first.

How about some feed back from others who have used it. Would you recommend it for first timers on fillets?

Click to expand...

I would definately not recommend it for first timers. I'm usually pretty proud of my own filleting and I'm reasonably comfortable with the process/materials. But I just recently tried this stuff and I found it very tricky to work with. The results can be really nice, yes, but I shudder to think about the horrible hack job I would have done if I used this stuff the first time I did fillets. Using "regular" epoxy with filler (I use silica) is way more forgiving, and much easier to work with.

One tip I would give for any epoxy fillet job, but especially so with ProLine 4500, is to really be mindful of air bubbles. The consistency & opacity of this epoxy is such that air bubbles often don't show up on the surface until it's too late to properly deal with them. Be careful when you lay the initial bead down that you are not leaving any air pockets underneath - they will show up later while the epoxy is semi cured. (and yes, "I ask me how I know" would be appropriate here). It is also possible for air pockets to form if your fin to fin slot joint is not fully sealed before you do your filleting.

I'll include a couple of pics here of my third/latest attempt doing PL 4500 fillets. I'm happy enough with these, but still not 100%. I need to do better with the forward/aft ends of the fillet - not quite sure yet how to accomplish that with this material. But each time I get better, so I'm hoping to "have it down" on future builds.



Great build thread Jim (as per usual), thanks for doing it, s6

Don't be afraid of the proline, just patient and prepared. My first (?) epoxy fillets were done based on the instructions provided with Wildman's Blackhawk 29 when it was first released. Jim may have done the instructions for that one. I make it up just like it shows in the PDF, and they came out sound, if not quite all as prettily smooth as Stealth6's.

Fillets are finally cured. Off to get some #10 threaded rod & parts for Av-bay.


Couple of first time assembled DarkStar "Rapture"pics. Should keep interest peeked till I get back........


......yes it was put on the block & chopped! Lol

What nose cone is that?? Cj bring it up to fly at Bong in 3 weeks. I here they only have about 12" of snow. Temps today around 24.
Have a Great Holiday Season
Gary

crossfire said:

What nose cone is that?? Cj bring it up to fly at Bong in 3 weeks. I here they only have about 12" of snow. Temps today around 24.
Have a Great Holiday Season
Gary

Click to expand...

That's my NC's "stunt double" a ShockWave. https://www.shockwaverocketry.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=70 for my 75 SpaceCowboy.

My black one is on tour for awhile, so the stunt NC is filling in,till it's return.
Nope, no Bong , I'm staying here for the Winter.....mid 60's for now through next week in Savannah!:grin:
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Av-bay assembly:

Take the glued & stacked Lids [BP's]. Keeps holes in alignment when drilling.

Drill them for tie rods, using 3/16 bit. Had to use tape to mark on these black plates, otherwise can't see marks.
I'm using #10 threaded rod,which is 3/16's.
Drill 2 holes opposite each other, 3/8in. [center of hole] from edge of bulkplate.
Add 1 or 2 holes[depending on 1or 2 altimeters] for charge wires. 7/64 is perfect for most.If using terminal blocks, size hole according to wire used.

Nut & washer added to welded 1/4in eyebolt, inserted through 1 set of BP's.
Add another washer & nut. tighten. I put a drop of CA on threads to keep nut from getting loose. Repeat for other lid.

I dremeled off the excess threads on eyebolt and dressed them with a file.

Coupler/Av-bay tube is cut 9in.[give or take] Sooooo.........

Need 2 sections of #10 threaded rod.
9.75 inches & 10 inches.
4 washers
4 nuts........+2 more OR 2 wing-nuts for other end.
2 lock-washers

Place 1 nut,lock-washer & washer about 1 in. onto rod.
Insert through BP's, Add washer & nut. Outside rod flush with nut. Tighten well, this is permanent mounting on this end.

Assemble & inspect.

One tie rod being a tad longer, will stick out further than the other.
Making finding the lid holes a snap during rocket prep!

I use wing nuts when I have them. Reg. nuts when I don't.
Lock washers keep this end snug also. [not shown in photo]

There ya have it. Simple, easy to do Av-bay set up. Light weight also.
Next vent band, holes and mounting to payload.


Then sled & avionics.

Slide vent band into position. Mine is offset from center by 1in. to the payload side.
Less in payload, more in fincan. I want it that way for more coupler to spread out stress in fincan for high thrust flights & help gain a tad more room in payload since I cut mine down in size.

Wrap tape around coupler so when gluing on band, excess glue collects on tape, easier clean-up.
Pencil mark around other side of coupler. So I can see where to sand [between pencil line & tape].

Sand inside of vent band & outside ring around coupler.

Very thin, evenly spread band of epoxy around coupler.

Push vent band into place with twisting motion to distribute epoxy.

Pull off tape and excess glue. If any left, wipe off with alcohol & rag.
As usual I had another part [set of BP's] that needed gluing ready, to use left-over epoxy from this step. Lol

After glue has set from previous step:

In posts #121 & 167, I pre-fit and marked the band and tubes for best fit. Also used the fincan to mark 3 lines through slots for rivet positions and vent holes for bay.[BEFORE gluing in the fins] Now it's time to use them.


Extend 3 lines onto vent band, using your favorite method. Mine is just edge of drawer.

Mark for center of band & drill 3 holes with 5/32 bit.[same size used for rivets]
Reach inside with stick wrapped sandpaper to clean up any fuzzies left in holes. You want them nice and clean for clear air sensing by altimeter .

Impossible to get good photo's of this step due to black on black, so I use a previous build pic to explain.

You want the 3 rivet locations BETWEEN the vent holes, so there is NO turbulence from rivets, screwing up altimeter readings.
Rivet locations are 1.5in from edge of payload, drill holes with 5/32 bit. Not all rivets are same, some have tiny ridge on them making a tight fit. You may have to ream your holes with bit to get rivets in.
Drill first hole, insert rivet, then move to next location, do the same & so on.
Do NOT try to drill all holes first, this rarely if ever works. Do them one at a time, inserting rivet as you go.

To do this on the black tube I wrap a piece of tape around payload, to mark on.
First I mark the 3 positions where vent holes are, using lines on coupler.[pulled out of payload enough to see lines, not shown in pic]
Then double mark those lines so they cannot be confused with rivet locations lines.[next]

Then rotate the coupler with lines BETWEEN previously drawn set, and transfer marks to tape.
These will be the rivet locations, drilled 1.5 in from edge of tube.

Finally drill into joints between sections, just enough to be seen through a couple of coats of paint.[ I use a smaller bit for this,1/8] These are your"key" marks to aid putting it all together during rocket prep for flight.
As you can see I got such a nice tight fit, you can barely see all the joints, when pushed together. It takes a bit of extra time to pre-fit all this, but if you give a rats a$$ about it.....well worth the effort.

There ya have it......perfect fitting Av-bay.

By the way, for those following this thread, I have a BIG surprise in store.........SUPER TEASER!



You Saw it here first, so leave space on your sled for one!


.............I will be mounting the NEW RRC3 MissleWorks altimeter on my sled, along with leaving space for the New LCD read out BOARD!
That's right...after flight just open up your bay & SEE how high your flight was on the LCD screen! [remember the Olsen]
[oh it still beeps out altitude, that hasn't changed] No more counting beeps.......unless ya want to.


COMING IN SPRING 2013...NEW MISSLEWORKS RRC3........

Click on attachment 3x to open to full size.

Your just a tease Jim and you like it !

Dang it, Jim. I have to admit I've been anticipating the release of the RRC3 with a somewhat unseemingly desire. It's downright disturbing.
Your post above is NOT helping.













(ummm.......so how much space am I going to need exactly?)

s6

stealth6 said:

Dang it, Jim. I have to admit I've been anticipating the release of the RRC3 with a somewhat unseemingly desire. It's downright disturbing.
Your post above is NOT helping.
(ummm.......so how much space am I going to need exactly?)

s6

Click to expand...

Not much, just a tad longer than a Strato....

The mounting holes are all 0.125" diameter for #4 hardware. Screw hole centers are as follows:

11/16" on short centers
3.25" on long centers

Overall board dim's are 0.925" wide x 3.512" long (23.8mm x 89.2mm)

Does that include the LCD readout?

s6

stealth6 said:

Does that include the LCD readout?

s6

Click to expand...

No, it's a separate, little board, powered off the RRC3 when plugged in. Used for programming or downloading data.
It can be mounted on sled, left plugged in & flight data will be on screen. It's target price is only 30 bucks + or - and can be used for any RRC3 you have.
There are numerous other little gems that can plug into an AUX. output.

1 Igniter board...fully programmable to do many things, airstarts....staging...clusters. Switching your own electronic gadgets on & off as you see fit by altitude >than <than etc.etc. such as LED's ,camera's, sensors
all parameters can be modified to suit one's needs. Igniter boards will come in several varieties such as 2 terminal,4terminal etc. Target price on these is starting at 15.00

2 GPS.
3 telemetry
4 accelerometer
5?
6?

The RRC3 is designed to be modular. Out of the box, hook it up and go fly, 500ft main delpoy & mach immune.
Simple dip switches allow easy changing of deployment altitudes.
Other settings on dip switches along with a single program button allow simple easy changes on field with out a computer or the LCD board.

Basically most flier's will use it as is, so why should they have to pay for features they won't use. If you want to get fancy you can add them on very, very, economically to fit your exact needs.

blackjack2564 said:

No, it's a separate, little board, powered off the RRC3 when plugged in. Used for programming or downloading data.
It can be mounted on sled, left plugged in & flight data will be on screen. It's target price is only 30 bucks + or - and can be used for any RRC3 you have.
There are numerous other little gems that can plug into an AUX. output.

1 Igniter board...fully programmable to do many things, airstarts....staging...clusters. Switching your own electronic gadgets on & off as you see fit by altitude >than <than etc.etc. such as LED's ,camera's, sensors
all parameters can be modified to suit one's needs. Igniter boards will come in several varieties such as 2 terminal,4terminal etc. Target price on these is starting at 15.00

2 GPS.
3 telemetry
4 accelerometer
5?
6?

The RRC3 is designed to be modular. Out of the box, hook it up and go fly, 500ft main delpoy & mach immune.
Simple dip switches allow easy changing of deployment altitudes.
Other settings on dip switches along with a single program button allow simple easy changes on field with out a computer or the LCD board.

Basically most flier's will use it as is, so why should they have to pay for features they won't use. If you want to get fancy you can add them on very, very, economically to fit your exact needs.

Click to expand...

He's like a drug dealer; he just keeps pushing and pushing. Now I'm gonna need 2 of these, I'm sure. Plus the LCD.

Adrian

I'll tell you another board Jim Amos should do--an RRC2mini to RRC3 adaptor. Just a pure mechanical board that allows you mod/adapt each av-sled location in your fleet for the RRC3. Maybe studs in the four corners and RRC2mini holes in the mid section--nothing else. I'd pay $10 each for those and buy 6 or 7 (hate to see how many GaryT might buy).

blackjack2564 said:

No, it's a separate, little board, powered off the RRC3 when plugged in. Used for programming or downloading data.
It can be mounted on sled, left plugged in & flight data will be on screen. It's target price is only 30 bucks + or - and can be used for any RRC3 you have.
There are numerous other little gems that can plug into an AUX. output.

1 Igniter board...fully programmable to do many things, airstarts....staging...clusters. Switching your own electronic gadgets on & off as you see fit by altitude >than <than etc.etc. such as LED's ,camera's, sensors
all parameters can be modified to suit one's needs. Igniter boards will come in several varieties such as 2 terminal,4terminal etc. Target price on these is starting at 15.00

2 GPS.
3 telemetry
4 accelerometer
5?
6?

The RRC3 is designed to be modular. Out of the box, hook it up and go fly, 500ft main delpoy & mach immune.
Simple dip switches allow easy changing of deployment altitudes.
Other settings on dip switches along with a single program button allow simple easy changes on field with out a computer or the LCD board.

Basically most flier's will use it as is, so why should they have to pay for features they won't use. If you want to get fancy you can add them on very, very, economically to fit your exact needs.

Click to expand...

Green Jello said:

Is the kit supposed to come with 3 or 4 CRs? I'm at work at the moment and can't remember how many I got.

Click to expand...

blackjack2564 said:

It comes with 3.

Click to expand...

I'll bite...go ahead, call me a Mamby-Pamby. Won't be the worst thing I've been called.

I got 3 CRs and I saw on Isaiah's thread that his was shipped with three as well. Now that I know I didn't get shorted on the parts, I still want to know what the "standard" build instructions would be for 3 centering rings. I've built a Darkstar Jr. with 4 CRs and injected fillets, and a Darkstar Miini with two and foam. And I understand CJ's suggestion for building up a dam with tape. And I could easily enough fabricate one more CR out of plywood...might do that anyway just to have a solid mounting point for a rail button. But I am curious as to what Tim's official build instructions are (or would be). Don't the 4" and 6" Darkstars also use 4 CRs? Why was this kit different?

Dad Man Walking said:

Why was this kit different?

Click to expand...

I'll have to let Wildman or Jason answer that one.


Happy Holiday's everyone, I went to the beach today.:grin:

Tomorrow we'll continue building!

Nice thread, but always learn something with CJ building.

Vindicator shipped last year with 3 Cr also, would rather have the price and buy my 4th ring like last year . If I was making a special would include the 4th Cr and 1 bulkhead and then sell the 3 other bulkhead pieces for what others charge for the electronics bay kit. Tim's specials are untouchable!

Love the peek at the new RRC3, you mentioned last year you thought we would be seeing some super cool gps gadgets at a very decent price - were you referring to Feather weights new product he mentioned in the poll a few weeks ago or???

Would like to hear some more about that! Want tracking but everything seems to cost $400

Kenny

KenRico said:

Love the peek at the new RRC3, you mentioned last year you thought we would be seeing some super cool gps gadgets at a very decent price - were you referring to Feather weights new product he mentioned in the poll a few weeks ago or???

Click to expand...

I don't know what Adrian has planned, but the RRC3 is indeed darned cool!

Would like to hear some more about that! Want tracking but everything seems to cost $400

Click to expand...

Get a Ham license, and you can set yourself with up a Big Red Bee tracker for under $200 -- buy an Arrow Antenna Yagi, a 70cm radio off of eBay, and the tracker, and you're set. If you want to save more, and have the ability to do so, build your own Yagi.

-Kevin

What GPS devices? Featherweight put theirs on hold.

Dad Man Walking said:

I'll bite...go ahead, call me a Mamby-Pamby. Won't be the worst thing I've been called.

I got 3 CRs and I saw on Isaiah's thread that his was shipped with three as well. Now that I know I didn't get shorted on the parts, I still want to know what the "standard" build instructions would be for 3 centering rings. I've built a Darkstar Jr. with 4 CRs and injected fillets, and a Darkstar Miini with two and foam. And I understand CJ's suggestion for building up a dam with tape. And I could easily enough fabricate one more CR out of plywood...might do that anyway just to have a solid mounting point for a rail button. But I am curious as to what Tim's official build instructions are (or would be). Don't the 4" and 6" Darkstars also use 4 CRs? Why was this kit different?

Click to expand...

Here at Wildman's we are always trying to stay on top of the latest things.

The only reason to have the forth ring is for injected fillets. and if you are using the 4500 that was featured with these kits there is no need for the forth ring.

WILDMANRS said:

Here at Wildman's we are always trying to stay on top of the latest things.

The only reason to have the forth ring is for injected fillets. and if you are using the 4500 that was featured with these kits there is no need for the forth ring.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification. I could not imagine injecting 4500.

Glad we have all that cleared up.....back to a build'n.

Left off with an 1/8in. bit in the drill.
Use that for a vent holes in the fincan & payload, to relieve internal pressure that can cause premature separation of payload/fincan or payload/nose cone. [think how ears pop going up & down in mountains]

Center vent in payload.... mine is 18.5 in long so 9 1/4 is center for me.

Fincan vent you want centered between top of motor mount tube & top of fincan tube. That is 12in here.

KenRico said:

GPS...... were you referring to Feather weights new product he mentioned in the poll a few weeks ago or???

Kenny

Click to expand...

I was referring to the New MissleWorks RRC3, & an add on GPS module.
Sooner or later Jim Amos of MW, will show up & start answering questions with more detail than I can provide.

..................................................................................................................

Av-bay sled.

I had a piece of G-10 left over from cutting fins to make my sled with. Half of mine are wood, half are G-10. basically whatever I have on hand that will fit.

Here are some basic dimensions that will work for all the DS 3's av-bays.
2 7/8 wide x 8 3/4 long. for 3/32-1/8 G-10.

If using wood or other thickness material, you can sand a bevel on sides of sled to help it fit & lock into position.
This is a full size sled that cannot move in any direction, once the lids are put on. It can have batteries or electronics mounted on both sides, as it fits between the tie rods NOT over them. This is the most usable space I could get, by mounting this way.

Already have ground off eyebolt flush, now notch end of sled to fit around it. I usually use the end of my grinding wheel, but not having access to it.....used Dremel & squared up notches with file.


The sled is "grabbed" by the stubs of bolt and locked into place. A bit of sanding on ends/width of sled are needed to custom fit. So cut your sled a tad oversize to begin with rather than undersize.

You can see in last pic how it all goes together. Sled is fitted just under center, no tubes needed to be glued on that go over tie rods.

This sled can be moved to any other 3in rocket you have or mounted on other larger sleds for use in 4-5-6 etc size rockets, by simply bolting it on.

Pics of another 3in. sled from Wildman 3. It's interchangeable with the one I'm working on now.

That can be a major + factor as time goes on, and you accumulate more rockets. Being able to move altimeters & sleds around seamlessly is an immense help, as you will learn with time.

4 holes in corner of 3in sled match up to holes on blank 4in sled & several other sizes for larger rockets. All my altimeters & sleds are designed to be multi use/modular for many different rockets.

The 3in DS sled bolts on to this 4in sled & can be used in the Wildman 4, DarkStar 4, Competitor 4, 6in Wildman and 6in Ultimate Endeavor! All with just the 2 sled sizes.

Green Jello said:

Regarding the aluminum tip.....

Is it generally recommended that you use some thread lock on it so you don't lose it in flight?

Click to expand...

patelldp said:

I noticed that that small G10 disc is really all that is responsible for centering the aluminum tip and assuring it doesn't slide around from side to side. Are you at all concerned about the tip shifting?

I am doing the same thing on my Broken Arrow. A part of me wants to keep the small G10 disc in there to reduce the span from the aft bulkhead to the nosecone tip and help keep it centered.

Click to expand...

We just put ours together glueless, like CJ has shown. We decided to keep the small centering plate in, after trying it with and without. And trying it both ways gave us a bit of perspective on both of the questions raised above.

To use the centering plate, we held it place with a couple of nuts, the same depth as it was on the supplied screw. Screwing the tip down snugs it up, and it stays centered more securely and with less clamping pressure than without the centering ring. But this approach does not allow you to use a locking nut like CJ did, so a dab of something might make sense if you are worried about the tip coming loose during flight. But I would not go crazy with that stuff...you could mess up the tip if you get it on there so tight you need to grab it with pliers to remove it. Better to just build the rocket so that it doesn't spin wildly...or at least make it spin clockwise.

With CJ's method, you can put a nut on the tip to lock it in place, as he has shown. We tried that, but it seemed like it took more clamping pressure on the bulkhead plate to keep the tip secure, so we went with the centering ring.