Loki Research 2012 & Beyond

As we head toward the end of this year, I wanted to let fliers know what they can come to expect from Loki Research in the coming years ahead.
I wanted to put this thread out here as I don't always have time to update the website, but I do have time to throw up some information here, on Loki Research products both current and new. I will try to update this thread as we go into 2013, and I will do so as time allows. I have some exciting new products to release next year.

For now, I would like to show you some of the new Loki Research Hardware for 2013. Please check with your dealer first to see if they have the new inventory. 38 & 54 cases have been shipping for a few months now and 76mm about a month ago.

All motor casing, bulkhead, and nozzle washer machine work was done in house by the Foster family at Advance Mfg. Inc.
Parent comany to the makers of the Space Cowboy.

From left to right.
38/120/1g
38/240/2g
38/480/4g
38/740/6g
38/1200/6gxl
54/1200/3g
54/1600/4g
54/2000/5g
54/2800/5gxl
76/2400/2g
76/3600/3g
76/4800/4g
76/6000/5g
76/8000/5gxl

new 54mm Forward Bulkhead with improved o-ring protection.

Those are looking sharp! I look forward to more things from Loki in 2013!

Ditto. Eric does great work.

Scott
Very nice looking hardwear. I would guess the new hardwear is also used for cert. reloads also. Question what are the silver rings in one of the pictures.
Thanks
GP

i have the new 54/2800 5gxl in my own collection, looks great with the new color and external thrust ring

crossfire said:

Scott
Very nice looking hardwear. I would guess the new hardwear is also used for cert. reloads also. Question what are the silver rings in one of the pictures.
Thanks
GP

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Those are stainless steel nozzle washers!

Though I may have a few 38MM compatible rockets soon, you should restart your 29MM line!

Why aren't Loki motors available in California?

qquake2k said:

Why aren't Loki motors available in California?

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My guess is cost, both in terms of time and monetary expense.

-Kevin

eggplant said:

Though I may have a few 38MM compatible rockets soon, you should restart your 29MM line!

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THat's what I told him too eggplant!

Plus getting CSFM cert is a PITA!

Eric
Your cases are a work of art. Scott picked a great guy to do his cases.
GP

Pantherjon said:

Plus getting CSFM cert is a PITA!

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I hate California.

LOKI still flies as research motors in Cali, right? We're making some trips up to FAR this spring flying certified loads (just need another launch site for time reasons), but it'd be a great excuse for us to get a Loki 38/1200 and a few J1000's...

CCotner said:

LOKI still flies as research motors in Cali, right? We're making some trips up to FAR this spring flying certified loads (just need another launch site for time reasons), but it'd be a great excuse for us to get a Loki 38/1200 and a few J1000's...

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You can fly pretty much anything at FAR so long as the guys there approve of it. They fly under a blanket waiver from the FAA/Edwards AFB and have explosives permits to launch any type of propellant they want. That's why liquid bi-prop class 3 rockets can be flown there without any issue.

Absolutely you can use Loki Research hardware in California, however you may not the propellant as of yet. It has not been approved by the CSFM. Maybe in a couple years.

I need to get a written "official" ruling on this, but as I understand it, those in CA may use the Loki 54mm and 76mm hardware with any certified CSFM approved reloads made for the equivalent AMW style case. If not with the previous "East Coast" Loki hardware (made from pipe tubing) you should be able to with the new "Mid-West" Loki hardware. It is dimensionally manufactured to the same AMW/Kosdon style ID 1st & wall thickness second as compared to pipe, which is manufactured to the OD dimension first.

What does that mean? It means straiter, rounder tubing with a consistent wall thickness and everything fits like it's suppost to. No suprises.

The only dimensional differences other than that are, Loki 54mm hardware lengths are 0.025" shorter and the 76mm are 0.015" longer than the AMW equivalent. The 76/4800 4g may be identical, but then, I don't think they ever made loads for that case. I'm not 100% sure.

One exception to note on 54mm hardware is this. Specifically, AMW 2550 cases, Loki Research 2800 cases and (I believe) Kosdon 2550 cases are all the same basic overall length but with the 0.025” exception above.
The distance between the end of the case & the start of the snap ring grove (end margin) on these cases are all .25” (.200” on all other 54mm hardware)
When I purchased my first 54 & 76mm hardware for 2010/11, it came from the manufacturer of Gorilla Rocket Motors and was type 2 anodized light blue. I later notice those 2550/2800 cases had a .020” end margin, not .250”.

The result is there is .100” more distance between the snap rings, thus the liners will be .100” too short. To solve this problem, you simply need a second nozzle washer placed on top or the forward bulkhead top “fill the gap”. The washer is .100” thick. However unlikely, without the 2nd washer there is a greater chance of a forward burn through. There were only ~10 of these Gorilla made Loki 54/2800 cases made. These 54 & 76mm cases were light blue in color.


I'll show the 54mm external thrust ring differences a few posts down.


Here's some more.

76/3600 & 4800, 38/740, 54/1200 & 1600, 54/2000 & 2800

Eric
Your cases are a work of art. Scott picked a great guy to do his cases.
GP

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You know who you can think for that?..........................................Jim Hendickson. CJ


I remember. After MWP 9 last year, he was telling me about Eric & the great work he does over a bucket of KFC at the Lehr kitchen table.

thank bro thank!

Is it my eyes or do those nozzles have a bell curve to them?

qquake2k said:

Why aren't Loki motors available in California?

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It is cost. It cost a fair amount to get a motor, much less a whole line certified in the People's Republic of California.

qquake2k said:

I hate California.

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Me too the laws here majorly suck.

edwinshap1 said:

You can fly pretty much anything at FAR so long as the guys there approve of it. They fly under a blanket waiver from the FAA/Edwards AFB and have explosives permits to launch any type of propellant they want. That's why liquid bi-prop class 3 rockets can be flown there without any issue.

Click to expand...

what is FAR?

CCotner said:

LOKI still flies as research motors in Cali, right? We're making some trips up to FAR this spring flying certified loads (just need another launch site for time reasons), but it'd be a great excuse for us to get a Loki 38/1200 and a few J1000's...

Click to expand...

Yep you can fly about anything at FAR/RRS (today USC flew a sweet P motor rocket waaay up there). Here's a Loki Research N3800 that flew at FAR a couple years back:





Pretty sweet motor!

Is it my eyes or do those nozzles have a bell curve to them?

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No, what you are seeing is an illusion.

Please note the information I added above in the 2nd photo post.

edwinshap1 said:

You can fly pretty much anything at FAR so long as the guys there approve of it. They fly under a blanket waiver from the FAA/Edwards AFB and have explosives permits to launch any type of propellant they want. That's why liquid bi-prop class 3 rockets can be flown there without any issue.

Click to expand...

Burner said:

Yep you can fly about anything at FAR/RRS (today USC flew a sweet P motor rocket waaay up there). Here's a Loki Research N3800 that flew at FAR a couple years back:...

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From https://www.friendsofamateurrocketry.org/Licenses.html

Federal Aviation Administration (FAA):

Class 2 rockets, up to 9,208 pound-seconds total impulse, wavier to 50,000 feet AGL Saturday and Sunday, 16,000 feet AGL Monday through Friday, Sunrise to Sunset.

Class 3 rockets, above 9,208 pound-seconds total impulse, wavier to 22,000 feet AGL Saturday and Sunday, 16,000 feet AGL Monday through Friday, Sunrise to Sunset. AGL: Above Ground Level

That's a great waiver, but it's far from "almost anything". No flights can exceed 16 kft on weekdays, and Category 3 flights are limited to 22 kft. on weekends while Category 2 flights are permitted to 50 kft.

Bob

bobkrech said:

From https://www.friendsofamateurrocketry.org/Licenses.html

Federal Aviation Administration (FAA):

Class 2 rockets, up to 9,208 pound-seconds total impulse, wavier to 50,000 feet AGL Saturday and Sunday, 16,000 feet AGL Monday through Friday, Sunrise to Sunset.

Class 3 rockets, above 9,208 pound-seconds total impulse, wavier to 22,000 feet AGL Saturday and Sunday, 16,000 feet AGL Monday through Friday, Sunrise to Sunset. AGL: Above Ground Level

That's a great waiver, but it's far from "almost anything". No flights can exceed 16 kft on weekdays, and Category 3 flights are limited to 22 kft. on weekends while Category 2 flights are permitted to 50 kft.

Bob

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Sorry, I was being vague. I meant that any reasonably sized rocket can be flown, but the altitudes are limited. However the FAA isn't against them having a higher waiver, but the surrounding mountains and highway make the BoD nervous about higher waivers. To note, a certain R hybrid rocket did manage to land across the highway under power, about 5 miles away

And James, I really need to make it out to FAR more often, I just wish I knew the "excpected flights" list before I get there.

bobkrech said:

That's a great waiver, but it's far from "almost anything".
Bob

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This is a bit of a frivolous objection, especially when the statements were made knowing most people here fly with Tripoli/NAR. How often does your local NAR launch have a static test like this? I flew an M after this test, seemed like an estes toy. But lets not derail the thread any longer...

Nice looking hardware Scott!

bobkrech said:

From https://www.friendsofamateurrocketry.org/Licenses.html

Federal Aviation Administration (FAA):

Class 2 rockets, up to 9,208 pound-seconds total impulse, wavier to 50,000 feet AGL Saturday and Sunday, 16,000 feet AGL Monday through Friday, Sunrise to Sunset.

Class 3 rockets, above 9,208 pound-seconds total impulse, wavier to 22,000 feet AGL Saturday and Sunday, 16,000 feet AGL Monday through Friday, Sunrise to Sunset. AGL: Above Ground Level

That's a great waiver, but it's far from "almost anything". No flights can exceed 16 kft on weekdays, and Category 3 flights are limited to 22 kft. on weekends while Category 2 flights are permitted to 50 kft.

Bob

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Glad you read the website, but what they're saying is that those restrictions are BOD-imposed, not FAA-imposed, and so you can fly "pretty much anything" as long as you pull the right strings with the BoD. Hope to see you out at a FAR launch sometime Bob!

prophecy said:

Glad you read the website, but what they're saying is that those restrictions are BOD-imposed, not FAA-imposed, and so you can fly "pretty much anything" as long as you pull the right strings with the BoD. Hope to see you out at a FAR launch sometime Bob!

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Exactly, BALLS is the most "open" launch under commercial/EX rocketry, but you can't fly most propellant compositions, outside of APCP and a couple hybrid types. Plus I don't think active stabilization is allowed in TRA launches.

edwinshap1 said:

Exactly, BALLS is the most "open" launch under commercial/EX rocketry, but you can't fly most propellant compositions, outside of APCP and a couple hybrid types. Plus I don't think active stabilization is allowed in TRA launches.

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So you do not allow sugar motors?

cwbullet said:

So you do not allow sugar motors?

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Gah, ambiguity again. I was speaking about TRA research rules regarding propellant formulations. And I wouldn't say not allow them, but something in the air does not like sugar motors above 6" diameter



Regardless, I do hope to start looking at Loki hardware for some research tests