Long Delays

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There is no way I am putting electronics in a rocket that I am probably never going to see again.
...

Are you rejecting electronics entirely, or just the cost of electronics, "done right?"

Since you are accepting non-optimal ejection (i.e., 17 seconds may not be correct if the simulation data are wrong, weathercocking happens, etc) and a high probability of loss of the vehicle, you could consider a 555 plus MOSFET to fire an ejection charge at a fixed time after launch. I think you could do it for less than $15, although my, "mental sketch" is a homebrew, giving up features that make the device adjustable or more durable and taking a minimal, "power it once vertical and timing starts when it moves" approach.

Not advocating this as good practice, and any RSO might well reject it as not safe enough. You could be stuck in EX or private/non-code-compliant launches anyhow.
 
you could consider a 555 plus MOSFET to fire an ejection charge at a fixed time after launch.

What does that mean, and do you launch at bayboro? I think I know your name. You are the club prefect? (Or used to be?)
 
If you need a longer time, you can swap out forward closures. This would not be certified though. But will work. The H410 has a green dot on the forward closure. Replace it with one that has a black dot, and you have 5 more seconds of delay. Dealers can order forward closures as spares, if required.

Although CJ is very experienced, do not follow his advice in this case ;-). The motor burns so short that anything put on the delay to slow it down, will probably still be there after the motor burns out 0.5 s later and the delay will never light. For longer burning motors this would probably work.

Jeroen
 
Thanks, Jeroen! That is what I will probably do.
Oh, and did you think I would really listen to CJ? :p
 
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Jeroen: it would be lovely if that could be certified, though it could do bad things to the case temper.
 
The 14 seconds or whatever was dead-on perfect for my Shockwave 29. How heavy is your rocket? I bet you could leave the delay alone and you would be fine. It'll be out of sight when it deploys anyway.
Could you attach an OR file?

Alex
 
Sure, once I get on the other computer. I am looking at 8 ounces fully loaded.
 
Hmm, that means your rocket empty will weight something like 1.9 oz. To put that into perspective, that's a bit less then the Estes Patriot. Either you've got your expected weight wrong or you are not building strong enough.

Alex
 
Yes, next time your at a launch,stop by your vendor & purchase some delay stretcher.



OK..............that was a joke! THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS DELAY STRETCHER!

It's a carry over from my paint contractor days. Every time there was a new guy in the paint store, we would "indoctrinate" him, by ordering a gallon of "paint stretcher" and wait to see how long it would take for him to figure it out.

It was usually good for 20-30 minutes while he rummaged around the stock room looking for it.LOL
 
OK..............that was a joke! THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS DELAY STRETCHER!

You lie! My hardware store has them in the same aisle as the beam and joist stretchers. I usually send a guy out there to pick up a left handed beam stretcher and if we'll be using a hoist I might tell him to pick up a long weight, but remind him the they're not usually stocked and to ask the guy at the lumber desk for one. If you get the right one, he'll play along and tell the kid that if he needs a long weight, he ought to take a seat 'cause it may be a while.:eyepop:
 
You lie! My hardware store has them in the same aisle as the beam and joist stretchers. I usually send a guy out there to pick up a left handed beam stretcher and if we'll be using a hoist I might tell him to pick up a long weight, but remind him the they're not usually stocked and to ask the guy at the lumber desk for one. If you get the right one, he'll play along and tell the kid that if he needs a long weight, he ought to take a seat 'cause it may be a while.:eyepop:

Wow! That's even tougher than locating a store that stocks left handed crescent wrenches for tightening muffler bearings....
 
OK..............that was a joke! THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS DELAY STRETCHER!

I knew that, Jim. How about a box of air hooks, or a gallon of dry oil? That usually took a little while too.

But did you know about paint extender? That actually exist. Increases the flow to reduce brush marks.

Jeroen
 
I only had to look for left handed smoke shifters to keep the smoke from my scoutmaster's tent...
 
I only had to look for left handed smoke shifters to keep the smoke from my scoutmaster's tent...

I got pranked by the other patrol leader who gave me a right-handed smoke bender when my PL sent me looking for a leftie. I guess we were out of the other ones.:wink:
 
I actually 'sold' a gentlerman who came in looking for tools for his daughter's new 'forren car' a metric crescent wrench. They were right next to the metric display and I thot I was being funny. I pulled it off the peg and said brightly "We even have metric crescent wrenches!" to which he replied "Yup, I'll take one 'o' them too!" I repeated the joke at the cash register with no response and to this day I just know that it is in with tools he uses to work on 'them forren cars'!
 
Wow. I have gotten about 40 sarcastic posts to a serious question... PLEASE, only real answers!
 
You need to turn on the serious response filter in your computer settings. :rolleyes:
 
Wow. I have gotten about 40 sarcastic posts to a serious question... PLEASE, only real answers!

Just stick with the stock delay..Experience has shown me that simulations are overly optimistic on altitudes, coast times, etc..If you are flying at Bayboro good chance Ed Fenton and/or Robert Carson and/or Johnny Hoffman will be there, look them up and ask them. Pretty sure their response will be the same.;)

And ask them where you can find some grid lines:wink:
 
Wow! That's even tougher than locating a store that stocks left handed crescent wrenches for tightening muffler bearings....

Was that a metric or english left handed crescent wrench you were looking for? It maybe over by the concrete welding rods and lightbulb grease.
 
... do you launch at bayboro? I think I know your name. You are the club prefect? (Or used to be?)

Answering the easy bits first: I haven't been to Bayboro yet, but hope to get down there soon to watch those with more experience and bigger hobby budgets than mine fly the big stuff. I'm not a Tripoli member, have never been any kind of club official.


What does that mean, ...

The 555 is a venerable integrated circuit timer chip that can (along with a few additional components) generate timing events in the range you mentioned. The IC and the necessary other parts can still be obtained as "through hole" parts (read that as: you can build with it using simple tools compared to more modern, tiny, surface-mount parts). The 555 can handle up to 200ma of current, so you would need a low-current igniter for your ejection charge if you want to try and have time timer fire the charge directly. If you need more power, a MOSFET (or other type of transistor) can be driven by the 555 to provide more current handling.

A 555 and driving a transistor switch are often early on the list of things someone does when beginning to experiment with electronics. There is plenty of documentation and example material on the web. You can probably get everything you need to prototype and test the electronics with a trip to your closest Radio Shack (except igniters).

I want to emphasize again that there are reasons why deployment electronics "done right" are more complicated than this ... Durability, operational reliability, and safety can all suffer as you try to reduce electronics cost. Arguably the only benefit to this approach (beyond learning) is having time-driven deployment without having to use mismatched reload components while also keeping electronics cost low enough to be considered, "disposable."

Purchase of a beginning electronics kit (here is one example, there are many out there) and building something that will reliably fire Quest Q2G2s 17 seconds after being triggered, sitting on your workbench, could be an educational experience. Getting from there to flight hardware that your RSO will approve may give you an entirely new appreciation for how much value the vendors provide in their products.

Knowledge gained is often in direct proportion to equipment lost or destroyed, but do your best to be safe if you decide to take this path.

Cheers,
Alan
 
Yes, next time your at a launch,stop by your vendor & purchase some delay stretcher. Paint some on the delay to slow it down.
That should do the trick!

But did you know about paint extender? That actually exist. Increases the flow to reduce brush marks.

Jeroen

Yep.....sure did. Used it all the time. Works beautifully on hot days or thick products. Use it 5 to 1 and get same coverage as the paint. Here is my favorite:https://www.floodco.com/paint-additive-solutions/index.do


As far as serious answers....DR J. gave you the best one in post 33. That's the one that really matters!
 
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bb

Run your sim on Rasaero and see if you get the same results.

Bob
 
I think this problem could be solved by answering MY question. I think a 17sec might not be necessary.

Alex
 
Uh, Rasaero doesn't have the H410. I ran the sim with an H400 (just guessing), and it says 13000 feet, which I know is wrong. Any thoughts? What did I do wrong?
Also, I ran the sim with a G138, and it says that it will go 8000 feet.
Thoughts?
 
Rasaero used standard .eng files. Go to Pro39.com and download all the CTI motors and simply copy them into the engine files for Rasaero. That's how I did it.

Bob
 
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