Do you think these would work for lighting motors? (Igniter SUCCESS!)

[Aksrockets]

Ive been doing a few tests recently with homemade igniters. One thing that worked better then I expected was firework fuse. It makes a nice instant "Puff" of flame and smoke. My only question now is whether or not these could be used to light AP motors. I can make these in a matter of seconds and I'm really enjoying the simplicity of them.
I tested 4 types of fuse:
Fast (4 sec/ft)
Chrysanthemum
Normal Visco
Super Fast (1/2 sec/ft)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBmCMML6pds

So far I'm liking the super fast (the one at the end) It has the biggest spark and burns the cleanest.
What do you guys think? Could these be used to light AP motors?

Alex

[blackjack2564]

As long as you keep the fuse section at the top of motor it ....may work...

I can't tell how you are lighting it. Please explain.


I tried with the green & red by covering it with Teflon tubing and just the top 1 in. exposed, so the motor would light from the top.

I did not have success. Don't think it was burning hot enough. What you have might. Give it a whirl & see.


Got a roll of thermalite fuse, now that stuff works. The outer layer is nichrome wire so ya just strip a section off and wrap around the fuse, hook up the leads. But it burns hot enough to light AP. Typically cut 2-3 1inch sections, hold them to the section with the nichrome wrapped around it with thread or another piece of nichrome.

[cwbullet]

It is worth a try.

[rockets4kids]

From what I understand, common firework/cannon fuse is nothing more than black power wrapped in some type of cloth. There are more advanced compositions that contain perchlorates and metals (aluminum and magnesium) that burn much hotter, but these are somewhat more difficult to obtain.

One thing to be aware of is that igniters can have a *huge* effect on the thrust curve of a rocket motor. There is a big difference between merely being able to ignite a rocket motor and being able to ignite it effectively. If you don't have a thrust stand to measure the thrust curves from various igniters, you will never know how well your igniters really work.

[MarkII]

There is a big difference between merely being able to ignite a rocket motor and being able to ignite it effectively. If you don't have a thrust stand to measure the thrust curves from various igniters, you will never know how well your igniters really work.

You may very well be right about that, but I always thought that once you got the propellant lit at the top of the core (for cored motors), everything roared right to life and burned furiously. I have heard of ineffective, suboptimal ignition, but it referred to igniting the propellant face somewhere below the top of the core (due to improper igniter placement).

The most unusual reload that I have used so far was a G69N, an AeroTech Warp-9 reload. It is an end-burner, with no core whatsoever. The instructions called for simply placing the igniter head anywhere on the flat bottom face of the grain during assembly, prior to installing the nozzle. (At 38mm in diameter, it's a rather wide grain face, at least relative to the size of the igniter head.) After pondering it for a moment I realized that of course that instruction step made perfect sense and of course the placement it described would be expected to properly ignite the motor (and it did), but after having assembled nothing but cored grains up until then, it just seemed kind of odd to me. I had to do a double take to be sure that I had read the sheet right.

[McKailas Dad]

As far as the 'fast' vs 'slow', to light AP, I'm pretty sure a slow (and hot!) burn is the way to go.

Another question, how you gonna fit those in your motor? Kinda fat, aren't they?

I've been making my own ignitors lately, and I'm pretty sure they are exactly how I wanted them. Lights super easy, burns long, and very hot!

Oh, and they are small enough to fit through E18 nozzles.....

[Aksrockets]

As far as the 'fast' vs 'slow', to light AP, I'm pretty sure a slow (and hot!) burn is the way to go.

Another question, how you gonna fit those in your motor? Kinda fat, aren't they?

I've been making my own ignitors lately, and I'm pretty sure they are exactly how I wanted them. Lights super easy, burns long, and very hot!

Oh, and they are small enough to fit through E18 nozzles.....

They fit in all 38mm and most 29mm.

The real selling point for these would be cost and simplicity. It takes me only a minute or so to make an igniter and pennies to make.
I'll post a video later.

[Aksrockets]

Trying one of these tomorrow in a G40W motor. They just a little tight in the C slot and difficult to insert because the center of the C slot is offset from the center of the motor. With other core burners this should be easier.

Alex

[UPscaler]

Hmmm...you must be into home made fireworks too..

I'm partial to the flying fish fuse myself.



Braden

[Aksrockets]

Hmmm...you must be into home made fireworks too..

Yep

I'm partial to the flying fish fuse myself.

Havnt use Flying Fish but ive used other stuff. Chinese visco, american visco (yuck!), Chrysanthemum, falling leaf (awesome!!!) Fast, super fast etc.
A while ago a friend and I made a mini reloadable motor completely powered by firework fuse. Aluminum casing, with threaded closures. The nozzle was a piece from a pen.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8JgA9IYEtM

Very fun experiment!

Alex

[Handeman]

I've been making my own igniters for about 4 years now. I've bought everything I needed for the dip from Walmart and Dicks Sporting Good. I use Magnesium shavings in them so they burn similar to your sparking formula. Large ones will burn for a second or longer while throwing off bits of burning Magnesium. The Magnesium burns at about 5,000º F and they embed in the propellant. These have been used in motors from E to M and work great. I estimate the cost at about $0.04 per igniter, inlcuding the Nichrome bridge wire.

IMHO The slow burning sparky one is definitely the way to go.

[Aksrockets]

Flew today. Im happy to report that these worked BEAUTIFULLY to light my G40W. About as quick as a first fire. Pictures and videos to come.

Alex

[Aksrockets]

Alright. I had a bit of trouble getting the igniter to fit in the C slot as previously mentioned. Loaded the motor in my Machmobile29 and hit the button. The motor lit right up! There was a bit of a delay time, similar to what you would expect with a first fire or a copperhead. Unfortunately after the boost, the rocket was never never seen again. Oh well, you only expect to get so many flights out of a minimum diameter. Im really excited that these worked so nicely. Day well spent!

Got some video, both from my handheld and my pad cam. Tell me what you think:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSqLjPCUyiI

Alex

[Aksrockets]

I've been making my own igniters for about 4 years now. I've bought everything I needed for the dip from Walmart and Dicks Sporting Good. I use Magnesium shavings in them so they burn similar to your sparking formula. Large ones will burn for a second or longer while throwing off bits of burning Magnesium. The Magnesium burns at about 5,000º F and they embed in the propellant. These have been used in motors from E to M and work great. I estimate the cost at about $0.04 per igniter, inlcuding the Nichrome bridge wire.

IMHO The slow burning sparky one is definitely the way to go.

Could you tell me your dip formula? I have a few left over firestarters that would work nicely!

Alex

[Aksrockets]

Here is a picture of the igniter I used to light the G40W.



Hopefully this will also explain how they are made. These aren't to complex!

Alex

[thobin]

This is a neat idea. I made a few of these and so far they work. Im going to take a few to the October launch and give them a try.


TA

[Aksrockets]

This is a neat idea. I made a few of these and so far they work. Im going to take a few to the October launch and give them a try.


TA

Anxious to see how these will turn out. I will be trying one in an AT H123. Not sure on the fuse type quite yet though. I might try just 2 normal visco fuses.
What type of fuse are you using/ what motor.
See you Saturday!

Alex

[dave carver]

I've made up my "motor starters" for years using nichrome, super glue and OLD formula sparkler. The new sparklers' have some kind of like latex binder and doesn't work as well as the old ones. The old style is mostly magnesum with other elements for coloration. When used as an igniter the head becomes a bright glowing ball of burning metals about an inch in diameter and burns for 2-3 seconds.

I liked the sparkie one of yours the best. Bits of burning particals will ignite a motor fast.

[cavecentral]

I tried similar 3 years ago without the success you had. I used 3mm Chinese Visco after asking Cannofuse.com about what they thought might be the hottest / most likely to succeed. My issue was the NiCh didn't light the fuse. My issue could have been too heavy of a fuse wrapping, too fine of NiCh, too fine lead wires, etc. Not really sure - I abandoned it pretty quickly.

Otherwise, this looks like the old wire wrapped thermalite method. That was what I used on my first rocketry venture and tried to duplicate it with other available fuses before learning how most people make them in the current era.

[kenstarr]

Not meaning to hijack the thread but what the heck is thermalite I hear it tossed around here and there on the forum? Uncle Paul gave me a spool of it. It's yellow, wrapped with lots of fine wire and burns like fuse but seems to stay really hot. Why wrapped with wire? It doesn't burn particularly fast. On the spool, it says Thermalite. I think it also says made in Canada.

[cavecentral]

Not meaning to hijack the thread but what the heck is thermalite I hear it tossed around here and there on the forum? Uncle Paul gave me a spool of it. It's yellow, wrapped with lots of fine wire and burns like fuse but seems to stay really hot. Why wrapped with wire? It doesn't burn particularly fast. On the spool, it says Thermalite. I think it also says made in Canada.

Used for ignitors in the 80s and 90s. Came in slow 20 sec/ft, med 10, and fast 5. No longer made or importable to the US. Remove tissue and all but one of the outer wires to act as a bridgewire. Use 30 GA wrapping wire to add leads with 1/4" bridge between them. A 1" length was enough to light most E-H composites. Sheathed in a tube it burns almost instantly - this was used in airstarts, flashbulb ignitors, etc to get the burnng part back to light the top of the motor.

Hope this helps.

[Aksrockets]

Another question with the thermalite, what is it made of? Did a little bit of research but came up with nothing. I used to think it was thermite. Is this true?

Alex

[cavecentral]

Another question with the thermalite, what is it made of? Did a little bit of research but came up with nothing. I used to think it was thermite. Is this true?

Alex

It is not Thermite. Thermite is a much simpler formula.

I do not really know. FireFox sold an imitation thermalite mix. Just a powder. They had instructions to make fuse from it, but That was well beyond my capability.

There was a listing of chems to try it on another page, but it seems to no longer exist. I didn't save the page content.

[kenstarr]

Here's Thermalite!

not to be confused with Mr. Thermite.

[blackjack2564]

Thermite is a powdered mixture of copper & iron oxide/aluminum [depending on who makes it] akin to flash powder. Extremely dangerous in the hands of the uninitiated. When combined with an E-match, upon ignition it covers the fuel grains with copper plasma at temperatures approaching the surface of the sun. Thermite= instant ignition.
Too much and you can crack grains or over-pressurize the motor.

However one of the best methods of guaranteeing cluster ignition when done correctly.
I have made 100's of them. Mostly for winning drag races or cluster rockets. Lol