Estes Ventris Build - help with a paint scheme

[Neuport]

I didn't find another Ventris build thread so I started this one. I bought this a few months ago, built the fin can and then let it sit while I worked on my HPR certs. Just got back to it this week thinking I would take it to Airfest at the end of the month.

I think the ventris looks like a missle and am thinking of painting it as one in grey and white with plenty of military style decals. I could use some suggestions.



I used nylon coated steel fishing line to make a loop for anchoring the recovery system to the fin can. I made the loop long enough to wrap the motor mount at the middle centering ring and extend to just short of the opening of the second body tube.

[Neuport]

These were the first fillets of this kind that I had done and they are a little uneven since I smoothed them with my finger. The fillets on the Blackhawk turned out much better. I'm glad I practiced on this one first.

[Neuport]

The nosecone was opened up to expand the main chute compartment and a small loop of the steel fishing line was made for an anchor and was pinned with a bamboo skewer and embedded with epoxy.

[Neuport]

The transition was opened at both ends to be used as an AV bay. I made bulk plates that match the shoulder diameters and fit D-shaped plates to these to help them align with the D-shaped holes. I may trim the larger circular plates and use the molded plastic rings for attachment points.



This is where I am tonight. I need to pick up hardware for the AV bay and primer, build and wire the sled, drill vent and pin holes, finalize the recovery setup, and then start the finishing routine.

[Neuport]

One more comment on the kit. I am pleased overall with the kit components; they seem well made and fit well. Except for the transition. It was loose on one end and very, very loose at the other. I contacted Estes and they sent out a new one but it was exactly like the original. I went extra heavy on the CA at the tube openings as you can see in the pictures to build up a sandable layer to fine tune the fit. I've done this on other builds before to get a "just right" fit. I've not tried tape as many suggest just because I like to sand to the fit I want. In some cases I have used CA in the tube and on the shoulder and sanded both.

[Neuport]

Or maybe it looks more like an RPG and paint the fat end green, the shaft brown and the fins brown or black.

[Neuport]

Attached the recovery harnesses, drilled the vent and shear pin holes, primed. Next I need to design the decals and plan the paint. Barring any better suggestions I will probably go with gray and white.

[Bone Daddy]

I bought a Ventris earlier this week.

Same problem with the coupler.

The smaller body tube is 1.948" id while the coupler is 1.872" od.
The other end isn't much better: bt id is 2.458" coupler is 2.42".

It is clearly the wrong part for the kit. As pointed out above, there is no easy fix other than replacing it with a custom made balsa transition or a paper transition.

I emailed Estes two days ago and still have not heard back, which is not the norm for their customer support based on past experience................

Bones

[Neuport]

I applied a few coats of CA to the ID of the BT until it was a tight fit and then sanded for the fit I wanted. Others use masking tape.

[Neuport]

Got the base coat of paint on yesterday. I didn't try to fill the spirals so they are fairly visible. I'm not sure if I like the black transition but it was the only other color I had in the paint cabinet at the time. What will really help this model pop is decals. I'm working up a set based on the Phoenix missile from the site linked below. I'm just using them to get a sense for the style and location. I will likely use actual model relevant information such as labeling vents and switches, putting my name and phone number, CP location, CG location, "Lift Here" on the lugs, etc. but all in the military style.

Here is where I am getting the missle info and specifically the Phoenix.

http://www.rocketryonline.com/jimbal...data/scale.htm
http://www.rocketryonline.com/jimbal...nix/index.html

[Neuport]

Here is a first take on the decals. Maybe the blue stripes should be less bright, or red, or just a thin black line, or omitted altogether. Any suggestions for changes/improvements?

Ventris decals preview.pdf

[Bone Daddy]

Neuport, I realize there are ways to fudge a fit, but when a kit has a list price of $59.99 you expect the parts to fit properly with each other.

I can't imagine that Estes quality control staff did not build a few of these kits, note the error then release the kit anyway. This is just unacceptable.

And I still have not heard back from Estes...................

Bones

[Neuport]

I agree.

[Bone Daddy]

Sorry for hijacking your thread.

I like the idea of making it look like a military round.

I am far from expert, but I believe the color of the stripes on rounds indicates whether they are live or not
and probably other things as well?

Maybe someone who really knows something about this will chime in.

Bones

[Rex R]

iirc it was stated that, the sample plastic transition piece was checked, and met tolerences...it was later discovered that some of the regular production bits did not meet the spec.s. (this includes both the partazon and ventris). the supplier was contacted and the problem was resolved, unforunatly there are (probably) more than a few that made it out the door with under spec parts. I would give Estes a few more days to respond before sending another email.
the blue stripes indicate that the part/item is inert/dummy. when last I checked, yellow markings indicate 'High explosive' (ex. warhead), brown is 'low explosive' and is used usually to indicate solid rocket propellent. one problem with getting pictures etc. for proper markings is that folks don't get to see the 'real' markings just those used on dummy/display ordnace thats how several kits made to market with the wrong markings (H.E. warhead & inert motor to name one example).
rex

[Neuport]

Rex, after I bought the kit I contacted Estes about the poor fit and they sent me a new transition right away. Unfortunately the new one was exactly the same as the original. I fixed it by bulding up CA inside the BT and moved on.

Thanks for the tips on color coding. You inspired me to a better design.

I did some more searching with your info to help me out and decided to make my model rocket "missile" comply with the code literally. I.e. I plan to use orange bands where each BT connects to the transition to indicate the recovery charges for the DD setup and a brown band somewhere near the top of the motor tube to indicate a rocket engine. The rocket type, according to DOD coding, will be a PTR; P=ground launched, T=training, R=rocket (as opposed to M=guided missle). I'll change my section labels to RECOVERY - MAIN, RECOVERY - APOGEE, FLIGHT COMPUTER, PROPULSION SECTION. I'll also add a label at the appropriate location for MAGNETIC ARMING SWITCH to indicate the position of the Power Perch magnetic switch. I'll post the changes tonight. My goal now is for every marking to be relevant to the model rocket but have the look of military markings.

[be69ar]

One more comment on the kit. I am pleased overall with the kit components; they seem well made and fit well. Except for the transition. It was loose on one end and very, very loose at the other. I contacted Estes and they sent out a new one but it was exactly like the original. I went extra heavy on the CA at the tube openings as you can see in the pictures to build up a sandable layer to fine tune the fit. I've done this on other builds before to get a "just right" fit. I've not tried tape as many suggest just because I like to sand to the fit I want. In some cases I have used CA in the tube and on the shoulder and sanded both.

...contact us again...I have some hand picked transistions that fit correctly on both ends and I'll send one out right away...Mike

[Neuport]

Thanks for the offer Mike but I made this one work and I am happy. I'll be happier if the Hobby Lobby's around here start carrying more of the PSII models; especially the Nike Smoke.

[Neuport]

Here is the revised scheme. I'm liking it much better. Any other suggestions? I'm giving the last coat of paint another 48 hours and then I'll print what I have and put them on.

Edited to add magnetic switch label. PDF is higher resolution.

Ventris decals preview 3 rst.pdf

[Bone Daddy]

You may want to consider trim Monokote for the bands.

Not sure if they have a match for all the colors - I don't remember a brown, but if you haven't used it before it makes you look like a master painter with little more than a sharp (I use single edge razor blades a must have item here at Bone Daddy's Rocket Works LLC) and a straight edge. I clear coat right over it along with the rest of the rocket.

Bones

[Neuport]

Thanks for the suggestion I'll swing by the LHS and see what they have. I've used film coverings on flying wings before but not on anything that I was trying to make look especially good. If they have it I'll give the trim material a try.

[Bone Daddy]

I really like like the direction you're taking this build.

The trim Monokote is self-adhesive.

I bet you'll be hooked also when you give it a whirl.

Bones

[Neuport]

I really like like the direction you're taking this build.

The trim Monokote is self-adhesive.

I bet you'll be hooked also when you give it a whirl.

Bones

Thanks!

[Rex R]

course there is a down side to learning about markings on munitions etc. you might not watch movies the same way...remarkable how destructive concrete can be in the movies, not to mention how much white phospherous is used in modern bombs . glad I was able to give your project a nudge off centre.
rex

[Neuport]

I got the stripes painted yesterday. I looked for trim monocote but the LHS didn't have brown. Since I was going to have to paint the brown I also painted the orange. The edges aren't perfect as you can see in the pictures but I'm happy with it. I printed a black and white proof sheet of the decals and decided they were too large so I need to work on getting the size right. Hopefully I'll get the decals on and sealed this weekend.

I got sidetracked by a lathe that popped up unexpectedly. I have been saving up thinking I might be able to get a lathe this winter. A friend picked one up from an estate sale and called me Tuesday to see if I wanted it before he cleaned it up and put it on Craig's list. It is smaller than I had planned on but it was 1/4 what I was planning to pay so I bought it. If it does everything I need great. If not I can learn on it and upgrade later. I expect I can get my money back easily. It's a 6x19 Atlas/Clausing hobby lathe from 1977 and is in good shape except it was filthy. I spent the last two days setting up, cleaning, and adjusting. I ended up totally taking down the tailstock, apron, cross feed, compound, and the 3 jaw chuck and soaking then in Kerosene and scrubbing them with a toothbrush. Parts of it looked like the underside of a lawnmower and some of the feeds were binding. After I got it all back together this evening its mostly smooth as butter. Now I need to find some aluminum stock and start on the EX motors that I bought it for. I also plan to make a tool rest for turning nosecones. Anyway, I've got to get back to building/repairing rockets so I will be ready for Airfest.

[Daddyisabar]

Now that you have a nice fantasy scale rocket you will have to make up a good fantasy scale rocket story to go with it. I usually begin with "It would have been the greatest missile of all time but Jimmy Carter canceled it along with the B1, neutron bomb and MX." My fantasy Coast Guard scale rocket now has many incredible features as everyone seems to keep adding to the story. It has interchangeable motors and warhead-payloads that allow it to do anything when launched from a standard Cutter. It can loiter and detect people in the water, ejecting a life raft. It can be configured in an instant for ship to air, ship to shore, or ship to ship. It can knock down satellites, kill subs or attach a tow line and tow a ship back to port. It was so great the Navy got jealous and the Coast Guard received no respect, thus there was only one built. . .

[Neuport]

Got the decals on and sealed with clear coat. Not perfect but good enough. I'm happy. I need to open the fin can vent but otherwise it's ready to fly as a motor eject and the nose section secured to the transition with screws. The vent really isn't necessary for the initial flights I am intending. Will maiden at Airfest on a G53 which sims to about 1400 ft. If I have time to build the sled and do some ground testing before Thursday then I will fly it DD, no motor eject. If I do motor eject I'll have to borrow a delay drilling tool or buy one at the field from a vendor. I didn't buy one with my hardware b/c I didn't intend to every use motor eject.

Weight without motor is 560 grams. Which is bloated compared to the label but still should be a great flyer.

[AfterBurners]

Here is a first take on the decals. Maybe the blue stripes should be less bright, or red, or just a thin black line, or omitted altogether. Any suggestions for changes/improvements?

Ventris decals preview.pdf

BTW - Great job on the build. I like the last one for decal selection.

[Neuport]

Thanks!

[ECayemberg]

Got the decals on and sealed with clear coat. Not perfect but good enough. I'm happy. I need to open the fin can vent but otherwise it's ready to fly as a motor eject and the nose section secured to the transition with screws. The vent really isn't necessary for the initial flights I am intending. Will maiden at Airfest on a G53 which sims to about 1400 ft. If I have time to build the sled and do some ground testing before Thursday then I will fly it DD, no motor eject. If I do motor eject I'll have to borrow a delay drilling tool or buy one at the field from a vendor. I didn't buy one with my hardware b/c I didn't intend to every use motor eject.

Weight without motor is 560 grams. Which is bloated compared to the label but still should be a great flyer.

That is one fantastic looking Ventris! Great job on the paint and trim scheme; it's a great diversion from the stock trim scheme.

Good luck with the flight(s) at Airfest; I won't be there this year. Again, well done, and happy flying!

-Eric-