Thread: World record on a C6-3 engine

1. World record on a C6-3 engine

today I've finished my special rocket, that goes according to rocksim 2283.57 feet on a Weco C6-3 motor,
thankz to the rocket shape , the drag is minimum , and it weights about 42 gram,
it has no recovery so it will be a lost shot.
speed according to rocksim would be at max 745.34km/h

the rocket is made out of a pencil , so its no prof looking rocket,
I'm gonna use this concept as a test vehicle, if rocksim is right . ( its almost unbelievable, but manual math shows the numbers are right )
I'm a willing to break the G80 altitude record for ever, with this same concept

pictures are coming later.

Waiting for the wind to become calm, for the launch

2. Mox nix
Join Date
19th January 2009
Posts
834
Depends on what sort of record you are talking about. If you want an FAI record, then you need to follow the rules set out here:

If you want an NAR record, then you need to follow the rules set out here:
http://www.nar.org/pinkbook/

If you want a Tripoli altitude record, then you need to follow the rules set out here:

If you just want bragging rights, then have at it.

I think you will find that Rocksim and reality very rarely agree.

kj

3. Originally Posted by kjohnson
I think you will find that Rocksim and reality very rarely agree.
I agree with this.

s6

4. Originally Posted by niels popping
today I've finished my special rocket, that goes according to rocksim 2283.57 feet on a Weco C6-3 motor,
thankz to the rocket shape , the drag is minimum , and it weights about 42 gram,
it has no recovery so it will be a lost shot.
speed according to rocksim would be at max 745.34km/h

the rocket is made out of a pencil , so its no prof looking rocket,
I'm gonna use this concept as a test vehicle, if rocksim is right . ( its almost unbelievable, but manual math shows the numbers are right )
I'm a willing to break the G80 altitude record for ever, with this same concept

pictures are coming later.

Waiting for the wind to become calm, for the launch

Where do you get this motor, and can you post a screenshot of the rocket?

5. Hello, again, Niels.

As I remember from my time in Den Haag, you may have to wait a long time for the wind to be calm. Of course, I was on the coast and you are inland but there still aren't any hills to help block the wind.

If you don't get the rocket back, how can you claim any record? Wouldn't you need to have some on-board measurement and recording to verify your altitude (or confirm/refute Rocksim's calculation)?

By the time you work up to the G80 I would guess there will be some room for an altimeter but what can you know without recovering your first rocket?

Anyway, I wish you well in this endevour.
Kenn

6. No proof of altitude, no recovery = no record!!!!

7. Wow! I just designed one that goes to 2641 feet on a Quest C6-3. PM me for instructions to deposit the X-prize to my acct.

8. Originally Posted by KennB
Hello, again, Niels.

As I remember from my time in Den Haag, you may have to wait a long time for the wind to be calm. Of course, I was on the coast and you are inland but there still aren't any hills to help block the wind.

If you don't get the rocket back, how can you claim any record? Wouldn't you need to have some on-board measurement and recording to verify your altitude (or confirm/refute Rocksim's calculation)?

By the time you work up to the G80 I would guess there will be some room for an altimeter but what can you know without recovering your first rocket?

Anyway, I wish you well in this endevour.
Kenn
well the G80 has anything onboard: camera and altimeter.

this is just an test to see if its stable,
and if it does, it will break the record

you can measure the altitude of an small rocket with an Inclinometer

i will post the screen shots, and the rocket itself later tomorrow,

right now its 1 AM in the Netherlands, time to sleep, Tomorrow after work I would like to show more,

9. #10: Recovery System. I will use a recovery system such as a streamer or parachute in my rocket so that it returns safely and undamaged and can be flown again, and I will use only flame-resistant or fireproof recovery system wadding in my rocket.
I guess it may not apply to people in other countries? It's like shooting bullets in the air. The chance of it hitting someone on the way down is small, but it could do some serious hurt if it happens.

But I cant imagine any way that you'd be able to see it to be able to measure it at that altitude anyway.

10. Sharp eyed theodolite operators and tracking powder.

11. Originally Posted by Sparkytfl
#10: Recovery System. I will use a recovery system such as a streamer or parachute in my rocket so that it returns safely and undamaged and can be flown again, and I will use only flame-resistant or fireproof recovery system wadding in my rocket.
I guess it may not apply to people in other countries? It's like shooting bullets in the air. The chance of it hitting someone on the way down is small, but it could do some serious hurt if it happens.
Not just in other countries, but I have seen an alarming amount of people not following the code and ignoring safety procedures.

One of my favorites was the guys that shot an Estes Phoenix without a recovery device at a near horizontal angle and thought it was no big deal.

12. Originally Posted by niels popping
today I've finished my special rocket, that goes according to rocksim 2283.57 feet on a Weco C6-3 motor,

Originally Posted by Green Jello
Thanks for the link Green Jello - the NAR record is 756m or 2479 ft

Thanks for the link Green Jello - the NAR record is 756m or 2479 ft
that's ridiculous for a C6-5. Wow.

14. Mox nix
Join Date
19th January 2009
Posts
834
Thanks for the link Green Jello - the NAR record is 756m or 2479 ft
That's just the c division record. Look down at T division and it says 1209m.

kj

15. Originally Posted by kjohnson
That's just the c division record. Look down at T division and it says 1209m.

kj
To be honest this is really hard to believe. Even using the 13mm Apogee Medalist C6 this seems very unlikely.

16. Originally Posted by kjohnson
That's just the c division record. Look down at T division and it says 1209m.

kj
You're right I didn't go any further -but I'll bet that's a tracking anomaly

17. Originally Posted by niels popping

you can measure the altitude of an small rocket with an Inclinometer
Are you measuring elevation only? not going to be ratified

18. Originally Posted by blackbrandt
Where do you get this motor, and can you post a screenshot of the rocket?
It's a European motor. It's BP and in a cardboard case nearly identical to an Estes/Quest motor.

19. Specifically it's a German motor. You can see the thrust curve here (along with curves for other motors from the same manufacturer:
http://www.raketenmodellbautechnik.d...SF-Motoren.pdf

Compare with the NAR thrust curve for the Estes C6 here:
http://www.nar.org/SandT/pdf/Estes/C6.pdf

20. Obviously this is a measurement/graph anomaly or error, but the curve for the Euro C6-3 motor sure looks like it burns forever! Thrust never returns to zero. Cluster a few of these and you could go for the Carmack prize on an Estes Saturn V!

21. Originally Posted by Sully
Obviously this is a measurement/graph anomaly or error, but the curve for the Euro C6-3 motor sure looks like it burns forever! Thrust never returns to zero. Cluster a few of these and you could go for the Carmack prize on an Estes Saturn V!
There does indeed seem to be something odd going on after about 1.2s. I've got a .eng data file for the same motors (but I can't find now where I got it or I'd post a link), which has the thrust drop after the spike as you'd expect, remain the same or drop slightly further until 1.55s, then drop away drastically - it shouldn't pick up again after 1.2s!

(Looking at the permitted file types for attachments, .eng is allowed, so if anyone is really interested then I'll post the file here.)

22. well here is a screen shot

today I launched one,

according to the video I've made at 120fps,
you can hear the ejection charge right after 0.98 seconds after the ejection charge is visually on the camera. ( a clear way I find, to measure the altitude)
so its no world record, just another rocket at 1,126 ft altitude

23. Ignoring safety, that rocket is still poorly designed. Those transitions in the "body" and "nose" arent smooth. You'd be better off with paper rolled into a long cone. It also is clearly overstable, which means you can make the fins smaller and more swept-back for less drag and more altitude.

24. Put a minimum diameter body tube round that motor and extend it a bit. Put a shoulder onto the transition which fits into the body tube, then you don't need to glue it in place. Tie them together with a bit of elastic or kevlar. Now you've got a rocket which breaks apart and tumbles down, bringing it into line with the safety code. And if you actually manage to find it, you get to use it again.

All this will add very little to the drag (about 0.7mm extra diameter) and next to nothing to the weight, so it will have little impact on performance. With the methods you're using to estimate the altitude, you won't notice the difference.

25. Senior Member
Join Date
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Location
Sykesville, MD
Posts
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Delay specific altitude records don't make any sense to me. If your rocket is worthy of a C altitude record, you would want the C engine with longest delay time, probably a C6-7. Unless you're trying to save mass and have the delay plugged, don't kick the engine, and are using tumble recovery.

Also the Weco C6 is the same as what Quest used to sell as a C6, and were just a relabled Weco motor. Now Quest engines are Chinese made.
Last edited by MarkH; 9th August 2012 at 12:32 PM.

26. Quest engines are made in China???!!! After what they have done with lead covered kids toys and poison dog and cat food I think I'll stay away from these - I happen to like my fingers and eyeballs