Ny Dr. Zooch Saturn1/1b family

[NJRick]

another member to add to the 1b family. I just finished my SA205 Apollo 7 Saturn 1b


here is an updated family portrait


and my two latest 1bs...Wally Schirra's Apollo 7 and Al Bean's Skylab 3

[NJRick]

finally had some nice flying weather up here in NJ. I would guess about 55 degrees and winds around 4-5 mph and not a cloud in the sky...so it was time to break out some kits....brought my Zooch EFT-1 out, my Zooch Mercury Atlas, my Japanese Myrtl lifting body with the V-2 booster (maiden flight) and my beloved Dr. Zooch Skylab Saturn 1b for her maiden flight. (see the pictures above...) Sorry I don't have flight pictures. All flew great including the Myrtl...but my 1b didn't fair as well...



RATS!!

of all the awesome Dr. Zooch rockets out there, his Saturn 1b Sklylab/ASTP version is my favorite kit. Heck, its my all time favorite kit of anything I have ever built...plastic or rocket...it was a perfect Zooch 1b flight....solid as a rock in flight, arced over and nice descent on an 18" chute...I honestly don't know what happened...I cut an extra long length of shock cord for this kit..its at least 44" long...I can't believe a chunk of balsa would be gouged out like that... I have never had that happen before.

I have to sit down and really look the booster over...but right now, its like looking at a crime scene....

[gdjsky01]

A flown rocket is never the same. That's why I always say "My rockets look good once!" But they must be flown.
Nonetheless it looks eminently repairable. Where does it separate? Just below that joint?

[NJRick]

you are right on both counts Jeff.....they only look good once....and they must fly.

I looked over the booster...the only mark I can see on it is this part of the body tube, right above one of the cable tunnels...the white mark over the body wrap that is the Saturn instrument unit.



you can see where the Apollo capsule separates here


the body tube fits the damaged area perfectly...


just surprised that even with the longer cord it still hit the balsa with enough force to take a bite out of it.
but I think you are right...I think I can fix this.

A flown rocket is never the same. That's why I always say "My rockets look good once!" But they must be flown.
Nonetheless it looks eminently repairable. Where does it separate? Just below that joint?

[gdjsky01]

This always begs the question Elastic or not? I prefer elastic. But only because I personally have had far far fewer tangles and zippers with elastic than small thin kevlar. But then elastic is not as durable and of course can snap back. It is hard to believe which that much shock cord, it was basically a bad Estes Dent. OTOH if the booster flew into the upper part, its hard to imagine it could hit with such force once air was getting into the body tube...

Still your work is beautiful. Don't believe me? Turn the 1b 180 degrees.

[NJRick]

thanks for the kind words Jeff, I appreciate it...there has always been something about the 1b that I have loved. Maybe because I came of age at the end of the Apollo program and when Skylab went up I was totally into it. I have loved the look of the 1b ever since. I really enjoy detailing these kits.

as for the Estes dent or what ever happened....I am kinda thinking it was just a fluke deal... I have a Zooch Soyuz to finish and then this 1b is coming onto the bench for repairs. I think I might even bring the LES up to standard while I am at it!

This always begs the question Elastic or not? I prefer elastic. But only because I personally have had far far fewer tangles and zippers with elastic than small thin kevlar. But then elastic is not as durable and of course can snap back. It is hard to believe which that much shock cord, it was basically a bad Estes Dent. OTOH if the booster flew into the upper part, its hard to imagine it could hit with such force once air was getting into the body tube...

Still your work is beautiful. Don't believe me? Turn the 1b 180 degrees.

[luke strawwalker]

finally had some nice flying weather up here in NJ. I would guess about 55 degrees and winds around 4-5 mph and not a cloud in the sky...so it was time to break out some kits....brought my Zooch EFT-1 out, my Zooch Mercury Atlas, my Japanese Myrtl lifting body with the V-2 booster (maiden flight) and my beloved Dr. Zooch Skylab Saturn 1b for her maiden flight. (see the pictures above...) Sorry I don't have flight pictures. All flew great including the Myrtl...but my 1b didn't fair as well...



RATS!!

of all the awesome Dr. Zooch rockets out there, his Saturn 1b Sklylab/ASTP version is my favorite kit. Heck, its my all time favorite kit of anything I have ever built...plastic or rocket...it was a perfect Zooch 1b flight....solid as a rock in flight, arced over and nice descent on an 18" chute...I honestly don't know what happened...I cut an extra long length of shock cord for this kit..its at least 44" long...I can't believe a chunk of balsa would be gouged out like that... I have never had that happen before.

I have to sit down and really look the booster over...but right now, its like looking at a crime scene....

The much dreaded "Estes Dent" (only in this case, not estes and not a dent, but anyway...)

Yeah, the EXACT SAME THING happened on my Friendship 7 Mercury Atlas about this time last spring, remember?? At least you got the piece back... all you need to do is apply some good wood glue, press it back into place, and then do a bit of cosmetic surgery to hide the "graft" and blend it back into the surface... course it means messing up your panel lines for the SLA panels on the transition cone... but all things being equal, that's not TOO bad...

You say you added shock cord?? I TRIPLED the length of the shock cord in mine (sewing elastic) after my Atlas came back with a huge honking CHUNK ripped out of the side of the transition, but I haven't flown it yet to test the results... I think it's because these transitions are weighted by Dr. Zooch, which of course increases the mass, and then you have the extra tube for the service module glued on top of it, another smaller cone for the Command Module, and a tower sticking out of that... it makes the cone quite "massive" and thus it stores a lot of energy when it comes off... especially with the "shotgun ejection charges" in most Estes motors... the rocket ends up going one way and the nosecone the opposite way, the cord stretches, stores the energy, and snaps the rocket and nosecone back at each other hard but in a random way... heck I ended up with a "smiley face" cut into the parachute when it was caught between the top edge of the tube and the transition/nose cone shoulder and the tube cut it against the balsa...

Maybe time to just switch to heavy cotton or nylon twine (or kevlar if one is so inclined... for years I just used heavy nylon twine for shock cords and it worked fine, with some very large home-made balsa nosecones which were pretty heavy on big (roughly 3 inch) Christmas wrapping paper tube rockets...

Maybe ditching the elastic altogether is the way to go... worth a try... the heavy nylon string (sold in the fishing department at Walmart and other such places as "trot line") has a LITTLE stretch, but it won't "snap back" appreciably...

At least your fix should be easier than mine (which I got partway through and put away to work on other projects... need to finish fixing it...)

Later and good luck! OL JR

[NJRick]

Hey Luke,
the first thing I thought of when I saw this dent was your Atlas....I used extra elastic because of your comments on that accident....didn't sue enough I think! I think you are right in that I am lucky to have the chunk of balsa...I think I can glue that in tight and gradually build up the putty. I will redo the panel lines on the LM transition.
we can rebuld her...faster...stronger....wait...that is an old TV show from the 70's.....

The much dreaded "Estes Dent" (only in this case, not estes and not a dent, but anyway...)

Yeah, the EXACT SAME THING happened on my Friendship 7 Mercury Atlas about this time last spring, remember?? At least you got the piece back... all you need to do is apply some good wood glue, press it back into place, and then do a bit of cosmetic surgery to hide the "graft" and blend it back into the surface... course it means messing up your panel lines for the SLA panels on the transition cone... but all things being equal, that's not TOO bad...

You say you added shock cord?? I TRIPLED the length of the shock cord in mine (sewing elastic) after my Atlas came back with a huge honking CHUNK ripped out of the side of the transition, but I haven't flown it yet to test the results... I think it's because these transitions are weighted by Dr. Zooch, which of course increases the mass, and then you have the extra tube for the service module glued on top of it, another smaller cone for the Command Module, and a tower sticking out of that... it makes the cone quite "massive" and thus it stores a lot of energy when it comes off... especially with the "shotgun ejection charges" in most Estes motors... the rocket ends up going one way and the nosecone the opposite way, the cord stretches, stores the energy, and snaps the rocket and nosecone back at each other hard but in a random way... heck I ended up with a "smiley face" cut into the parachute when it was caught between the top edge of the tube and the transition/nose cone shoulder and the tube cut it against the balsa...

Maybe time to just switch to heavy cotton or nylon twine (or kevlar if one is so inclined... for years I just used heavy nylon twine for shock cords and it worked fine, with some very large home-made balsa nosecones which were pretty heavy on big (roughly 3 inch) Christmas wrapping paper tube rockets...

Maybe ditching the elastic altogether is the way to go... worth a try... the heavy nylon string (sold in the fishing department at Walmart and other such places as "trot line") has a LITTLE stretch, but it won't "snap back" appreciably...

At least your fix should be easier than mine (which I got partway through and put away to work on other projects... need to finish fixing it...)

Later and good luck! OL JR

[luke strawwalker]

Hey Luke,
the first thing I thought of when I saw this dent was your Atlas....I used extra elastic because of your comments on that accident....didn't sue enough I think! I think you are right in that I am lucky to have the chunk of balsa...I think I can glue that in tight and gradually build up the putty. I will redo the panel lines on the LM transition.
we can rebuld her...faster...stronger....wait...that is an old TV show from the 70's.....

Funny you mention that... guess what Keira and I have been watching this weekend?? LOL

"Steve Austin, astronaut... a man barely alive...

Gentlemen, we can rebuild him... we have the technology-- we can make him better... stronger... faster...."

Yep, hate to see it happen, but as far as fixes, at least you didn't lose 20% of your nosecone like I did... I got the first layer of filler in there and then sanded a bit and then set it aside to let it dry out well... need to get back to it...

Later! OL JR

[NJRick]

I think you are right...I lucked out with the chunk....I will probably start playing with that this week...

Funny you mention that... guess what Keira and I have been watching this weekend?? LOL

"Steve Austin, astronaut... a man barely alive...

Gentlemen, we can rebuild him... we have the technology-- we can make him better... stronger... faster...."

Yep, hate to see it happen, but as far as fixes, at least you didn't lose 20% of your nosecone like I did... I got the first layer of filler in there and then sanded a bit and then set it aside to let it dry out well... need to get back to it...

Later! OL JR

[NJRick]

made some repairs...my Zooch Saturn 1b ASTP will be back in action soon!

finally had some nice flying weather up here in NJ. I would guess about 55 degrees and winds around 4-5 mph and not a cloud in the sky...so it was time to break out some kits....brought my Zooch EFT-1 out, my Zooch Mercury Atlas, my Japanese Myrtl lifting body with the V-2 booster (maiden flight) and my beloved Dr. Zooch Skylab Saturn 1b for her maiden flight. (see the pictures above...) Sorry I don't have flight pictures. All flew great including the Myrtl...but my 1b didn't fair as well...



RATS!!

of all the awesome Dr. Zooch rockets out there, his Saturn 1b Sklylab/ASTP version is my favorite kit. Heck, its my all time favorite kit of anything I have ever built...plastic or rocket...it was a perfect Zooch 1b flight....solid as a rock in flight, arced over and nice descent on an 18" chute...I honestly don't know what happened...I cut an extra long length of shock cord for this kit..its at least 44" long...I can't believe a chunk of balsa would be gouged out like that... I have never had that happen before.

I have to sit down and really look the booster over...but right now, its like looking at a crime scene....

[Daddyisabar]

That is good. I never repair back to perfect shape because a little ding gives the rocket character and acts as a painful reminder that I am not practically perfect in every way.

[sodmeister]

Good to see things are getting repaired.Such a nice looking rocket ,always love looking at your collection !

It`s almost time for me to paint my SEMROC Sat1B ,hope it turns out as nice as yours....we shall see soon I hope !

Take care


Paul t

[NJRick]

thanks daddy...if you look at the pic there is a small dent right at the base of the SLA panel facing the camera....good enough....I just put a coat of Krylon on to stick the pinstripe down.

That is good. I never repair back to perfect shape because a little ding gives the rocket character and acts as a painful reminder that I am not practically perfect in every way.

[NJRick]

Paul....hope the weather has warmed up for you ? last I heard you had about 100 cans of paint ready to go! can't wait to see your Semroc Saturn 1b! are you going with the black Apollo 7 tanks or the white Skylab tanks? She is a cool looking rocket either way. I just love the 1b!

Good to see things are getting repaired.Such a nice looking rocket ,always love looking at your collection !

It`s almost time for me to paint my SEMROC Sat1B ,hope it turns out as nice as yours....we shall see soon I hope !

Take care


Paul t

[sodmeister]

Paul....hope the weather has warmed up for you ? last I heard you had about 100 cans of paint ready to go! can't wait to see your Semroc Saturn 1b! are you going with the black Apollo 7 tanks or the white Skylab tanks? She is a cool looking rocket either way. I just love the 1b!

I`ll go with the black and white tanks ,although the white tanks sure would be a lot easier LOL

Pics will be posted when I do get her painted.

Cheers

Paul T

[NJRick]

I am sure she will look awesome!!....I always liked the white tank version....not sure why though. The semroc looks like a great kit from what I have seen posted on here.

I`ll go with the black and white tanks ,although the white tanks sure would be a lot easier LOL

Pics will be posted when I do get her painted.

Cheers

Paul T

[Dr.Zooch]

FWIW- I've said here before that longer shock cords will not always eliminate this type of re-contact. I have onboard videos that show how it happens. The problem is having a parachute that deploys a bit too fast. It brings the forward section to a sudden stop and the aft section simply flies into it. Mine took plade on the shuttle when it returned with an unexplained hole in the chute. A frame by frame study of the onboard video showed the booster actually flying into the deployed chute. So, a tighter wound chute would probably be better than a longer shockcord.

[NJRick]

Wes...thank you for the tip...that is why you own a successful model rocket company and I do not! seriously, that makes sense to me and I will wrap the chute tighter for her next flight.

Can't say enough how enjoyable this kit is to build...I have kind of decided up here that I am going to make a whole new series of your Saturn 1's and 1b's....have learned some new things since I built them and I want to apply that to some new builds. But I have a Luna and a Sputnik to build first!

FWIW- I've said here before that longer shock cords will not always eliminate this type of re-contact. I have onboard videos that show how it happens. The problem is having a parachute that deploys a bit too fast. It brings the forward section to a sudden stop and the aft section simply flies into it. Mine took plade on the shuttle when it returned with an unexplained hole in the chute. A frame by frame study of the onboard video showed the booster actually flying into the deployed chute. So, a tighter wound chute would probably be better than a longer shockcord.