Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3
Results 61 to 78 of 78

Thread: AeroPac XPRS Sept. 2012

  1. #61
    Join Date
    18th January 2009
    Location
    University of Colorado-Boulder
    Posts
    4,181
    Quote Originally Posted by edwinshap1 View Post
    IIRC there was a tour of PR where they showed the blanks for FWFG. They were much larger, and then put on a mandrel. It's well polished, but aeroheating can be a problem. However the time the nosecone is under high heat flux and friction is low, and if the aluminum tip is properly aligned much/most of the cone is in mach shadow.
    While normally I'd agree with you that aeroheating doesn't happen for very long in amateur rocketry, the N5800 is somewhat of a special case. It's such a fast, efficient, high mass fraction motor that it will tend to push minimum diameter rockets up to speeds in the neighborhood of mach 3.8 to mach 4 at an altitude of around 12k MSL (assuming a launch from BALLS). Assuming the tip is basically like a cone with a 15 degree half angle (which should be fairly close), and assuming the tip is perfectly sharp (best-case scenario), and that there is no viscosity (again, best case scenario here), the flow will travel along the surface of the cone at mach 3.1, with a pressure of around 30 PSI, and a temperature of around 265F. Adding in a rough boundary layer estimate, temperatures climb quite a bit higher - even with an extremely conservative set of assumptions, the temperature goes up to around 550F, and odds are it would be even higher than this (any surface imperfections will cause it to go up quite a bit as well - possibly as high as a worst case value of 1700F or so, which is also what the temperature will be at the tip - interestingly, this is even high enough to damage aluminum, though I doubt that's what happened). In addition, the shear at the surface is extremely high, which will tend to cause the heat transfer to occur extremely efficiently, so the cone's surface will heat up extremely quickly.

    Also, as the heat damages the surface, it will become less smooth, which will exacerbate the heating - this cycle is probably what killed the cone (assuming the cone is what failed). Also, the time the rocket spends at high speeds and low altitudes is actually fairly long - several seconds over mach 3, and more like 10 seconds at mach 2+, based on some rough RASAero estimates (though the details depend very heavily on the sleekness of the rocket). This is an extremely demanding flight, so some of the normal assumptions have to be questioned and revisited to make it successful.


    (Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "mach shadow" - the whole front surface of the cone is exposed to the freestream, and just the fact that the air passes through the shock wave doesn't do a whole lot to protect the cone)


    (The math for the conical flow is here, if you're interested - the boundary layer stuff is just based on numerical code)
    NAR #84281 L3
    TRA #11233 L3

  2. #62
    Join Date
    8th December 2009
    Posts
    540
    Maybe a solid wood nose cone is what's needed. It would even help for optimal mass.

    Tony

  3. #63
    Join Date
    13th February 2012
    Posts
    2,677
    Did they fly an N5800? Nowhere did anyone say that.
    2013 impulse burned: 5205.1 Ns
    2013 impulse lined up to burn: ~56,445 Ns

  4. #64
    Join Date
    18th January 2009
    Location
    University of Colorado-Boulder
    Posts
    4,181
    Quote Originally Posted by CarVac View Post
    Did they fly an N5800? Nowhere did anyone say that.
    Yep, that's what they flew. It's at least the third rocket (maybe the fourth?) where someone has tried (and failed) to fly that motor in a minimum diameter. I have a MD attempt of my own that I'm building right now for the N5800 for BALLS, so I'm definitely interested in the ways in which these rockets have failed so far. The motor has a lot of potential, but it also is one heck of a challenge.
    NAR #84281 L3
    TRA #11233 L3

  5. #65
    Join Date
    5th January 2011
    Location
    live in IL, launch in WI
    Posts
    109

    Launch report of min diameter N5800 on new thread

    We are back from the Black Rock and have posted the launch report of our minimum diameter N5800 attempt here:

    http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthr...pt-at-Aeronaut

    Thanks to Aeropac for hosting our attempt. Good luck with XPRS. I'm sure it will be a great launch.
    Judy & Jackson
    L3 and Jr L1
    WOOSH (NAR #558), Tripoli Wisconsin
    Indiana Rocketry, QCRS

    AP usage 2012: 54,300 Ns, 33% of P
    AP usage 2013: 15,965 Ns, 56% of N

  6. #66
    Join Date
    8th December 2009
    Posts
    540
    Thanks Judy and Jackson. I enjoyed meeting you guys...

    Speaking of XPRS.

    We have 2 more N5800 min dia attempts

    and 2 Carmark Prize Attempts

    Tony

  7. #67
    Join Date
    26th May 2011
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    236
    Buzz is there's already been a successful flight over 100K. Anybody got more info??

  8. #68
    Join Date
    17th September 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    1,797
    Last I heard they got a 98000 GPS lock.
    2011 motor usage: 3696 Ns; 44.3% L
    2012 motor usage: 36186 Ns; 80% O

    NAR #91919
    Level 1: 06/10/11 Level 2: 10/08/11

    Rockets: Flown 2x STOP; Level Three Build 11.5" Squat

  9. #69
    troj's Avatar
    troj is online now Wielder Of the Skillet Of Harsh Discipline, Potentate of Perilous Pans
    Join Date
    19th January 2009
    Location
    In a house
    Posts
    11,347
    Ken Biba posted on facebook about a flight over 100K, with data; don't know if that team was going for a record attempt, or not.

    -Kevin
    Rocketry Online - Your Global Rocketry Resource
    Info-Central Rocketry Tips & Techniques
    Rocketry Ramblings

  10. #70
    troj's Avatar
    troj is online now Wielder Of the Skillet Of Harsh Discipline, Potentate of Perilous Pans
    Join Date
    19th January 2009
    Location
    In a house
    Posts
    11,347
    On the Twitter feed, they're calling it a Carmack Prize winner -- I didn't see anything about the N record. So, the question is....what motor did they use?

    -Kevin
    Rocketry Online - Your Global Rocketry Resource
    Info-Central Rocketry Tips & Techniques
    Rocketry Ramblings

  11. #71
    Join Date
    6th October 2009
    Posts
    10
    Looking at the live feed that was available on the Aeropac website it was the 2 stage attempt. N1000 to M685

    Congrats Guys!!
    TRA #7134 L3
    NAR #89199

  12. #72
    troj's Avatar
    troj is online now Wielder Of the Skillet Of Harsh Discipline, Potentate of Perilous Pans
    Join Date
    19th January 2009
    Location
    In a house
    Posts
    11,347
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fatman View Post
    Looking at the live feed that was available on the Aeropac website it was the 2 stage attempt. N1000 to M685
    Just got more info from Ken; you are correct.

    What Ken sent me reads:

    Two stage, N1000 to M685, 21000Ns total. Smallest rocket in Carmack competition, I believe. Off vertical staging (which we will fix) or would have went to design altitude of 125K. We will fly again on Saturday morning. Casey Barker, Erik Ebert, Jim and Beck Green, Dave Raimondi, Tom Rouse, Steve Wigfield. All fiberglass with carbon vaccuum bagged fins
    -Kevin
    Rocketry Online - Your Global Rocketry Resource
    Info-Central Rocketry Tips & Techniques
    Rocketry Ramblings

  13. #73
    Join Date
    4th February 2009
    Location
    Grayson, GA
    Posts
    192
    Who makes the M685?

    What hardware does it fit?
    Greg Muri
    TRA #3035
    TAP

  14. #74
    Join Date
    18th July 2009
    Location
    "Central" NJ
    Posts
    679
    Aerotech makes the M685, 75/7680
    Tom
    NAR #83620 L2 soon to be L3

  15. #75
    Join Date
    8th December 2009
    Posts
    540
    For those not able to attend XPRS you can watch the launch live for AeroPac's Virtual Classroom http://aeropac.org/VirtualClassroom/VC_homepage.html

    I'm sure the N5800 flighs and updates will be posted.

    Tony

  16. #76
    Join Date
    13th September 2012
    Posts
    1
    Both stages recovered in tact. GPS data 108k MSL. Air frame A flew yesterday, second flight attempt tomorrow. Air frame B set for Saturday launch.

    Steve

  17. #77
    Join Date
    1st May 2011
    Location
    Utah Canyon Country
    Posts
    914
    Quote Originally Posted by tfish View Post
    For those not able to attend XPRS you can watch the launch live for AeroPac's Virtual Classroom http://aeropac.org/VirtualClassroom/VC_homepage.html

    I'm sure the N5800 flighs and updates will be posted.

    Tony
    Had no idea that the "virtual classroom" even existed - pretty cool.

    So, is there any way to optimize viewing in terms of timing? Is there a way, short of sitting and watching all day long (which ain't going to happen), so as not to miss those "not to miss" flights? Is anyone doing any sort of heads up notices before given launches are about to occur? Are there any important flights that have reasonably good scheduled times that I should log on to watch?

    I realize that, like any event, weather and other factors mean that rockets basically launch when they launch. But it would be great if there was some way of knowing when to check in other than a complete random crapshoot.

    thanks, s6

  18. #78
    Join Date
    24th March 2011
    Location
    Palo Alto, CA
    Posts
    12
    If you can monitor @AeroPac on twitter, you might get some warning.

    Sam
    --
    Sam Fineberg
    Sam@fineberg.net / K6SAF
    NAR 91047 / TRA 13293 L3
    LUNAR BoD Secretary

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •