Making a Two Stage?

[mourakue]

I want to purchase a kit that allows me to make my own rocket, but I want a multi-stage rocket. I don't know how to do this, so any help would be appreciated.

Also, if you know how to cut balsa wood for fins, please share tips. Thanks, and I really appreciate any answers.

[mourakue]

I forgot to mention, it doesn't need to be just a two stage. I would be fine with it being a three or four stage.

[adrian]

I want to purchase a kit that allows me to make my own rocket, but I want a multi-stage rocket. I don't know how to do this, so any help would be appreciated.

Estes: CC Express, Astron Elliptic, Long Tom, Loadstar
Fliskits: Various multi-stagers

Also, if you know how to cut balsa wood for fins, please share tips. Thanks, and I really appreciate any answers.

Draw lines, get a sharp knife, cut fins.

A steel ruler is good for both drawing the lines and as a guide when cutting the fins - lay the ruler along the line you're cutting, then cut along the ruler's edge and you won't risk cutting into the fin. Keep your fingers away from the ruler's edge so you don't risk cutting into them either!

It may be worth drawing the fin out on paper first, especially if it is a complex shape. Then trace round the shape on the balsa.

The leading edge of the fin should be parallel to the grain of the wood. This will make the fin stronger when it is attached to the rocket. If the grain is parallel to the root then the fin is very likely to snap off.

[JStarStar]

Sigh...

Everybody always wants to jump straight into the deep end of the pool.


If you are absolutely hell-bent that your first rocket must be a multi-stager, try this:

http://www.estesrockets.com/rockets/...1-taser-twintm


... and then build it EXACTLY according to the instructions.

If you do that, it will probably work, but you will not really understand WHY it works.

It is really a better idea to build a few single-stage rockets first so you learn the basics of what makes rockets fly successfully.


For most practical purposes, three stages is the maximum for multi-stage model rockets. It is possible to build rockets with more stages but you quickly reach the point where successful flying is a matter of sheer luck and disasters become the rule rather than the exception.

[shreadvector]

Video is online for how to build rockets and cut out parts like fins.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYh1pWHoQXE&feature=plcp
See other parts of the video as well.

I want to purchase a kit that allows me to make my own rocket, but I want a multi-stage rocket. I don't know how to do this, so any help would be appreciated.

Also, if you know how to cut balsa wood for fins, please share tips. Thanks, and I really appreciate any answers.

[Salvage-1]

Read up on the subject. Apogee has an excellent explanation here, also, go through their videos on youtube, you get some real good tips. Good luck.

[Launch Lug]

...The leading edge of the fin should be parallel to the grain of the wood. This will make the fin stronger when it is attached to the rocket. If the grain is parallel to the root then the fin is very likely to snap off.

Very key tip here! Another way to think of it is to make the grain of the wood run as perpendicular to the Body Tube of the rocket as possible. Cutting fins is actually pretty easy to do like adrian mentioned, good luck!

[blackbrandt]

Well, 4-stage rockets are reserved for BALLS, but typically those are like R-P-O-O rockets. Stay with little two stage rocket kits, and then maybe try to scratch build one after you have flown many flights. The Semroc Shrike is a good one.
BB

[BABAR]

Concur with JStarStar. If you don't have experience cutting balsa fins yet, you simply should NOT be building two stage rockets of YOUR OWN design.

Get some experience actually building and flying some basic one stage rockets. Two stage rockets are tricky, largely because the weight of TWO engines in the tail end dramatically shifts the center of gravity (CG.) To counter this, either need to add bigger fins (to adjust center of pressure [CP]), add nose weight (to re-shift CG forward), or both. If these terms aren't ones you are intimately familiar with, you have no business designing two stage rockets YET.

Many two stage KITS can be flown as a single stage. Assuming your time is worth more than at least 1/2 of minimum wage, the cost of buying a two stage kit will be more than made up in the time you may spend wasting building a two stage rocket that more than likely won't work and may potentially get someone hurt.

Your interest in building your own rockets is to be commended. STRONGLY recommend these two books.

Handbook of Model Rocketry (Paperback)
by G. Harry Stine
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...condition=used (can get used copy delivered for $4)

and

Model Rocket Design And Construction by
Tim Van Milligan
Which is $37 plus shipping from Apogee
http://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocket_Books_Videos/Books

Both are well written, very easy and enjoyable reads, and will pay huge dividends in saving you from making a lot of newbie mistakes (but don't worry, you'll still make some!)

Rocketry is a journey, enjoy every step (including the first ones.)

Good luck,

Tom

[hornet driver]

Sigh...

Everybody always wants to jump straight into the deep end of the pool.


If you are absolutely hell-bent that your first rocket must be a multi-stager, try this:

http://www.estesrockets.com/rockets/...1-taser-twintm


... and then build it EXACTLY according to the instructions.

If you do that, it will probably work, but you will not really understand WHY it works.

It is really a better idea to build a few single-stage rockets first so you learn the basics of what makes rockets fly successfully.


For most practical purposes, three stages is the maximum for multi-stage model rockets. It is possible to build rockets with more stages but you quickly reach the point where successful flying is a matter of sheer luck and disasters become the rule rather than the exception.

I gotta go along with his sentiments! but if you absolutely ,positively, with out a doubt have to jump right in and go multi stage you'll need these in your flight box----1: pair binoculars - Cash- for the drive to the next county- Band aids and sting ease for the walk through the thickets to get the rocket back --and -depending on where you live a snake bite kit! Bear away works great back east and I use cougar no/go from west Tx on----seriously get used to single stage first---by the way--I'm serious about the other stuff too!!!

[blackbrandt]

saving you from making a lot of newbie mistakes (but don't worry, you'll still make some!)



Tom

You mean like the guy who forgot to stick the igniter in the motor, or the guy who forgot to attach the quick-link to the nose cone, or the guy who forgot to arm the altimeter, or the time I forgot the wadding, or the guy who glued on his noes cone because he thought it would blow up? (OK, that last one was a mistake on my part. I forgot to tell the kid how to assemble the nose cone area)

[cwbullet]

There are a lot of errors and you too will make them.

[Rocketbuilder]

There are a lot of errors and you too will make

some of

them.

[hornet driver]

I forgot Boar be Gone--seems to work anywhere in the continental U.S. including Catalina island---Colt 45---9mm just seems to make them mad

[mourakue]

Sigh...

Everybody always wants to jump straight into the deep end of the pool.


If you are absolutely hell-bent that your first rocket must be a multi-stager, try this:

http://www.estesrockets.com/rockets/...1-taser-twintm


... and then build it EXACTLY according to the instructions.

If you do that, it will probably work, but you will not really understand WHY it works.

It is really a better idea to build a few single-stage rockets first so you learn the basics of what makes rockets fly successfully.


For most practical purposes, three stages is the maximum for multi-stage model rockets. It is possible to build rockets with more stages but you quickly reach the point where successful flying is a matter of sheer luck and disasters become the rule rather than the exception.

I am purchasing multiple kits, including a kit that allows me to make multiple rockets of my own design. I have built rockets in the past, and I am actually getting an Estes Comanche III, I just want to learn how to make a two or three stage from scratch.

I will admit though, I did jump right in with my first ever rocket build being an Estes QCC Explorer. It was difficult, but I don' like easy builds.

[Rocketbuilder]

I will admit though, I did jump right in with my first ever rocket build being an Estes QCC Explorer.

I see you already have an excellent taste in rockets!

[mourakue]

I found someone with enough balls to make a 5 stage rocket. I guess he used 4 D12-0's, and then D Upper stage.

Here's the video -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfnDEryI3Dk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfnDEryI3Dk

[pick1e]

how to cut balsa wood for fins, please share tips.

Cut against a metal ruler as a straight edge. Get one that has cork on the back so it doesn't slide around when you cut against it. It's safer and you'll get straighter lines.

[Orion14ed]

Once you have the fins cut out, (I recommend printing out an OpenRocket file with the fin profile, very very useful) you will want to get the smallest fin of that set. Align them all so the smallest one is in front, and sand them down until the fins all fit each-other, if one is chipped, make a new one, should not be that much of an issue. If all are cut pretty nice, this should not take a while. Then you are going to want to print out a fin marker guide, this will tell you where to exactly put your fins on the body tube. Use a fast drying glue originally(but strong), then after all fins are on, glue the outsides of the fin with stronger glue. Another thing with two stage rockets, is that you must change the standard motor mount around. If you are using a standard estes hook, you may want to adapt it to stage better. Connect each stage with a coupler, sand it down so that it will fit in tight, but not too tight. You want the stage with the coupler glued in to be blown away easily, making the flight much smoother. Another thing to remember is to get engines that have a 0 as delay. So as a E12-0, this makes the engine have the ejection charge as soon as the motor burns out, this is crucial. Fins on each stage is important, to keep the CP under control, as well as nose-cone weight to always keep the CG in front of it. Just some of my tips. Building a scratch-built 3 stage atm. I am sure this all has been mentioned. Good luck!

[dave carver]

Thought I add my. Estes Omega is a real good 2 stager. It also flys excelent as a single stage. Uses the larger D motors thus it's more expensive per flight but it can fly single stage on a C6-3 with a motor adapter.

Be very, very careful cutting your balsa. About the time you find your finger with the blade is a little late to be watching. Those blades, especially the Testor's #11's are surgically sharp. They will slice pieces out of you seemingly better than balsa :P

[cjl]

Well, 4-stage rockets are reserved for BALLS, but typically those are like R-P-O-O rockets.

:headdesk:

http://www.lunar.org/docs/talks/desm...RackRocket.pdf

(I'm not suggesting this as a good first rocket, but it is a good example of a relatively simple four stager that certainly doesn't need to be flown at BALLS)

[blackbrandt]

And whatever you do, don't listen to any of the pyro's on youtube!

[eggplant]

Well, 4-stage rockets are reserved for BALLS, but typically those are like R-P-O-O rockets. Stay with little two stage rocket kits, and then maybe try to scratch build one after you have flown many flights. The Semroc Shrike is a good one.
BB

There is certainly nothing "typical" about an R-P-O-O rocket, even at BALLS.

[JStarStar]

I am purchasing multiple kits, including a kit that allows me to make multiple rockets of my own design. I have built rockets in the past, and I am actually getting an Estes Comanche III, I just want to learn how to make a two or three stage from scratch.

I will admit though, I did jump right in with my first ever rocket build being an Estes QCC Explorer. It was difficult, but I don' like easy builds.

The Comanche-3 is a pretty good basic multi-stage kit and will teach you most of the techniques you will need to build a multi-stage rocket. Once you have built and flown that you will understand most of the things you need to whip up similar multi-stage designs.

One thing to remain aware of is that the extremely long design of the Comanche-3 is the main reason it remains stable in all 3 flight configurations.

A shorter 3-stage rocket would be less likely to be stable since the center of gravity would be farther back.

[Micromeister]

Balls or just plain lack of knowledge? That model did exactly what ever other over 3 stage model rocket has done since the first writing for the Model rocket safety code. That is Weathercocks into horizontal flight by the 3rd stage motor iginition. NO addtional Altitiude gained, No useful purpose. but could cause damage or injury if launched in breezy conditions. The model in the video isn't even a true staged model in the first place, it's a RACK Rocket or Chad (Cheap and Dirty) staged vehicle. Either type would have had better altitude results at 3 stages.

The Suggested limit for model rockets is 3 stages. That configuration has proven to be a Good, practical and safe limit for nearly 50years... lets keep the safety records intact by adhearing to the 3 stage limit.

U-tube flyers are generally not NAR or Tripoli members or honestly have any idea of what they are really doing other then stick a motor in it and see if it flys! BAD, BAD way to learn things. Like others have said; Don't pay any attention to those who post such u-tube trash.

I concur with JStarStar: the Comanche-III is an excellent choice for both 2 & 3 stage flying. You might even consider downscaling to a Mini-Manche-III scratch build flying on A10-0T boosters to an A10-3T or A3-6T if you can find them sustainer now that we have 13mm booster motors back in production. Out of sight is Out of sight regardless of motor class Of all the 3 stage Mini and standard Comanche-III's i've flown over the years I believe I've recovered on ONE Sustainer even on Cloudless, calm Long Streamer recovery days.