Where do you put the wadding?

Sorry if this has been answered. I did a search on wadding and there were 9000 threads on materials to use, but none addressed this specific question:

Where do you place the wadding in the tube? Do you shove it all the way down so it's on top of the engine, or do you leave it just below the parachute/streamer? Or does it matter? I noticed watching Estes videos that they use a dowel and load it like a musket and seem to shove it all the way to the bottom.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tirfHosgrs&feature=player_embedded

Thanks

From my experience it doesn't really matter unless space is an issue, because once the rocket lifts off it will all move to the bottom anyways.

Jello....a little tip for you..

Do away with the wadding and go to your local Home Depot and pick up a bail of cellulose insulation...also known as "Blow in" insulation. You can usually find a bail for around 15 bucks. The rocket world calls it "Dog Barf". It is completely flame resistant, and bio degradable.....so you won't have little sheets of wadding scattered all over the field. You will never need to buy wadding again. A bail will last a lifetime!

It is especially handy in those bigger diameter rockets that you will inevitably start launching.

I've put wadding in whatever form just above the engine inside the motor mount, just above the engine mount inside the bodytube, or completely encased the recovery system with something to keep the flames away.

So far all the methods work equally well, but the simplest is just put it all the way down to the top of the engine mount. As long as the flames don't touch the parachute/streamers, you'll be fine.

I fly mostly rocket gliders and helicopters, which don't use wadding. So when I get the Estes wadding in the Blastoff Flight Packs, I keep it in the trunk of the car for emergencies.

Thanks guys. I'll pick up the dog barf as soon as I run out of what I have now. I just finished a project I learned from here converting tissue paper with baking soda. Gonna try that first.

Honestly there is nothing easier than "dog barf". I keep it in 2 gallon ziplock bags and just pour it into the body tube. Use it on everything from small BT-20 rockets all the way up to 5+" rockets.

paul.nortness said:

Jello....a little tip for you..

Do away with the wadding and go to your local Home Depot and pick up a bail of cellulose insulation...also known as "Blow in" insulation. You can usually find a bail for around 15 bucks. The rocket world calls it "Dog Barf". It is completely flame resistant, and bio degradable.....so you won't have little sheets of wadding scattered all over the field. You will never need to buy wadding again. A bail will last a lifetime!
It is especially handy in those bigger diameter rockets that you will inevitably start launching.

Click to expand...

This is a great thread, I was actually going to start one on home made wadding, I figured some one had come up with it. I recently ran out of the wadding pack I bought thirteen years ago with my Atlas rocket. It was the brown paper the width of TP and the length about three sheets worth, the stuff was great, I used wads three and four times, no wonder it lasted so long, after the third time though you were pressing you'r luck, it was getting pretty burnt up.

I was getting low so I bought some of the blue stuff with my last engine purchase. I DON'T like the blue stuff, it's deffinantly flame retardent but it's like stuffing present wrapping paper into you'r rocket, it's stiff and dosen't cover all the gaps, I've had more chute damage with this stuff. So..blown in isulation huh? Cool beans, I won't need to start another rookie thread.

To Mr. Jello, I wasn't sure myself when I started I went with trial and error, I started using a
wooden dowl to push the wadding all the way to the top of the engine and then to make sure it has a nice seal around the edges of the tube. I've learned the ejection charge is QUITE powerful and the gasses will go around the wadding up the sides of the tube and melt you'r chute. I've learned the hard way. From one rookie to another...Cheers.

I've moved to nomex chute protectors in anything I can fit it into. Im just lazy. Of course...when you use one thats too big... bad things happen...

Another idea is hit up the dollar store and buy the paper cupcake inserts. They are already rated for high temperatures, dirt cheap, biodegradeable, and if inserted upside down (flare towards the motor) the ejection charge forces the cup to scrub the inside of the bodytube, helping it seal. Between that and some of the cheap Estes wadding I've had no issues with flame damaged recovery components.

In my bigger models I use a couple of sheets of Estes wadding and then add the cellulose on top. I have found the ejection charge blow through the crumbles of insulation an scorch my chute. Thank you to the Forum for turning me on to dog barf wadding. I poke the wadding down with a piece of balsa scrap to make enough room for the shock an nose cone and not much further.

>> there is nothing easier than "dog barf".

Don't believe everything you read! LOL I try to put ejection baffles in all my rockets - extremely easy to prep! My BT-60 Big bertha, takes maybe 10 seconds to prep the 18" nylon chute (no wadding at all)! Nary a scortch on the chute in 15+ launches! The baffles can be retro-fitted as well.

I think the baffles are safer for dry plants - rather than having flaming pieces of wadding coming down. To each his own!

Good luck,
Pat

closet astronaut said:

To Mr. Jello, I wasn't sure myself when I started I went with trial and error, I started using a
wooden dowl to push the wadding all the way to the top of the engine and then to make sure it has a nice seal around the edges of the tube. I've learned the ejection charge is QUITE powerful and the gasses will go around the wadding up the sides of the tube and melt you'r chute. I've learned the hard way. From one rookie to another...Cheers.

Click to expand...

The dowel is a good idea as you can "compact" the wadding a bit to seal it against the body tube sides a bit more.
I took the dowel idea a little farther and made a cheap wadding tamping tool:

https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/2012/01/wadding-tamp-tool-part-1.html
https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/2012/01/wadding-tamp-tool-part-2.html



After many flights the inside of the body tube gets soot on the walls. With the tamping tool I can slide the wadding up and down (going in from the top and through the motor mount - Pic 2) to make sure it works like a piston. By using the tool you can get a good balance of a seal and I'm sure it'll slide out of the body tube.

Because the dog barf breaks up easily you might get a blow-by of the ejection. In the past I've used a combination of Dog Barf and tissue wadding, like GeorgeB mentions above. A piece or two of tissue wadding first, then dog barf on top of that.

If you can find it, sheets of flame reisistant crepe paper can be cut up into 4" squares. The party rolls of crepe paper work, but isn't wide enough for bigger models. Centuri once sold crepe paper waddding for their Stellar line of model rockets.

paul.nortness said:

Jello....a little tip for you..

Do away with the wadding and go to your local Home Depot and pick up a bail of cellulose insulation...also known as "Blow in" insulation. You can usually find a bail for around 15 bucks. The rocket world calls it "Dog Barf". It is completely flame resistant, and bio degradable.....so you won't have little sheets of wadding scattered all over the field. You will never need to buy wadding again. A bail will last a lifetime!

It is especially handy in those bigger diameter rockets that you will inevitably start launching.

Click to expand...

"Bale" not "bail".... one is a compressed block of loose material (like hay, cotton, or cellulose insulation) and the other is what you get from a bondsman to be released from jail... or what you do to dip water out of a leaky boat.

Just sayin'... Later! OL JR

PS... just to keep on topic... look for the inevitable bale that's been dropped, busted, or speared by a forklift fork... with the clods they turn loose on forklifts in these indoor lumberyard type stores, they usually ALWAYS have one laying around that nobody in particular wants to buy... I picked up one of those bales for $4... just point out the damage, play it up, and make them an offer and negotiate... MUCH cheaper than the unblemished bales!

Green Jello said:

Thanks guys. I'll pick up the dog barf as soon as I run out of what I have now. I just finished a project I learned from here converting tissue paper with baking soda. Gonna try that first.

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I've never heard of using baking soda. I always used 20 Mule Team Borax

"Bale" not "bail".... one is a compressed block of loose material (like hay said:

You just couldn't resist....could you......:rofl:

Click to expand...

Huxter said:

>> there is nothing easier than "dog barf".

Don't believe everything you read! LOL I try to put ejection baffles in all my rockets - extremely easy to prep! My BT-60 Big bertha, takes maybe 10 seconds to prep the 18" nylon chute (no wadding at all)! Nary a scortch on the chute in 15+ launches! The baffles can be retro-fitted as well.

I think the baffles are safer for dry plants - rather than having flaming pieces of wadding coming down. To each his own!

Good luck,
Pat

Click to expand...

I like this baffle idea, no wadding? I like that too. What about baffles in smaller diameter tubes? How about some close up photos of what you have? Or maybe a thread link. I've heard people talk about these, mostly for use in staged rockets but haven't seen any pics of them, or use in single stage.

Gary Byrum said:

I've never heard of using baking soda. I always used 20 Mule Team Borax

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Yeah, it works the same, but is even cheaper and more likely to be in your house already. I tested a sheet with a blow torch and it wouldn't light at all. Only smolder. I did a whole pack of wrapping tissue paper so I'm good for about 100 launches now. I'll probably get dog barf after that.

Just to clarify: Use this: and not this:

cwbullet said:

Just to clarify: Use this:View attachment 91234 and not this: View attachment 91235

Click to expand...

Only you would take a picture of the real thing :rofl::grin::rofl:

Rocketjunkie said:

Only you would take a picture of the real thing :rofl::grin::rofl:

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Well .....a picture is worth a 1000 words.

I was going to have Tacos and re-fried beans for supper ,but maybe I`ll change my menu now :blush:

Paul T

Huxter said:

>> there is nothing easier than "dog barf".

Don't believe everything you read! LOL I try to put ejection baffles in all my rockets - extremely easy to prep! My BT-60 Big bertha, takes maybe 10 seconds to prep the 18" nylon chute (no wadding at all)! Nary a scortch on the chute in 15+ launches! The baffles can be retro-fitted as well.

I think the baffles are safer for dry plants - rather than having flaming pieces of wadding coming down. To each his own!

Good luck,
Pat

Click to expand...

Agreed. There is nothing easier than a baffle. No moving parts (I'm looking at you, piston!), nothing to forget and nothing to run out of.

In my range box I have a pack of Estes wadding and a bag of dog barf (the cellulose kind, not the real deal). My plan is 1-2 sheets of wadding with dog barf on top, then the chute packed on top of that. In the Big Bertha I will pack it I only as far as necessary to get the chute in. The Big Daddy is another thing entirely with the limited space available for wadding and recovery gear - looks like there's no option but to put the wadding right against the MMT.

I hate baffles, have never and will never use them, but like he said, whatever works for you. Pistons are in the same family AFAIC. I have 2 bales of dog barf(forgot I had one when I bought a second), and I only paid 5.99 or less for each one, not damaged. And you can use it in ANY rocket,no matter what size. But like lazybones, I have pretty much switched to the nomex parachute protectors. I have them large enough for my 7.5 in rockets.

https://user.xmission.com/~huxley/rockets/bigbertha/baffle/index.htm

closet astronaut said:

I like this baffle idea, no wadding? I like that too. What about baffles in smaller diameter tubes? How about some close up photos of what you have? Or maybe a thread link. I've heard people talk about these, mostly for use in staged rockets but haven't seen any pics of them, or use in single stage.

Click to expand...

Baffles really shine on larger diameter rockets where you go thru alot of paper/dog barf. They still work well on, say, bt-50 diameter rockets tho.

Kits are the easiest if you can afford it, otherwise you can make your own!

https://user.xmission.com/~huxley/rockets/bigbertha/baffle/index.htm

for a big daddy (or mega mosquito) a chute protector works nicely and leaves enough room for the recovery gear. I've used a baffle in a bt50 bird(pot scrubber type).
rex

Looks like I`m going to have to try out the old dog barf trick ,as i`ve been flying a lot of LP rockets as of late (in between HP launches) and those little squares of paper wadding add up pretty fast.

Home Depot this week.

Paul t

jimzcatz said:

I hate baffles, have never and will never use them,

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Not being a smart ass and just trying to understand all this.....but if you've never tried a baffle, what is your hate of them based on?

Green Jello said:

Not being a smart ass and just trying to understand all this.....but if you've never tried a baffle, what is your hate of them based on?

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I was wondering the very same thing.

The smallest baffle that I have used is in a 1.25" tube. I have one for a BT-50 but I haven't assembled and installed it yet. The largest one I have used so far was in a 2.25" tube. All of my baffles were assembled from commercially produced kits by Semroc and FlisKits.

jimzcatz said:

I hate baffles, have never and will never use them, but like he said, whatever works for you. Pistons are in the same family AFAIC.

Click to expand...

Green Jello said:

Not being a smart ass and just trying to understand all this.....but if you've never tried a baffle, what is your hate of them based on?

Click to expand...

MarkII said:

I was wondering the very same thing.

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Make that me as well. I've used both Baffles and Pistons. I've used regular and improvised wadding. All work well if they are designed and installed properly. I'm not sure why Baffles and Pistons are frown upon.

Green Jello said:

Not being a smart ass and just trying to understand all this.....but if you've never tried a baffle, what is your hate of them based on?

Click to expand...

For the same reason there are several people on this forum who feel the same way about sparkie motors. They say never have or never will use em, they are fireworks not rocket motors. To them I say bul*&^t. Admittedly I have never used a baffle, but I have seen very bad things happen from their use. These are my opinions, and if baffles work for you, thats great. Now back to your regularly scheduled non-hijacked thread!