LDRS 32

As was alluded to in another place...Apparently, the Discovery film crews will not be at LDRS 32. so 2 questions:

Is this still true?

If so, why not?

I asked why not on the TRA list and never got an answer...Maybe the message just got missed.

-Dave

DAllen said:

As was alluded to in another place...Apparently, the Discovery film crews will not be at LDRS 32. so 2 questions:

Is this still true?

If so, why not?

I asked why not on the TRA list and never got an answer...Maybe the message just got missed.

-Dave

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Yes.

They've overstayed their welcome.

Rocketman248 said:

Yes.

They've overstayed their welcome.

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I wondered if it was something as simple as that or if there were more.

Trying to do an LDRS at Black Rock seems daunting enough. Trying to do it with a film crew running around sounds downright masochistic.

Now if we could just get Kari to show up at all the big launches minus the film crews...:wink:

Rocketman248 said:

Yes.

They've overstayed their welcome.

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Yeah!!! (Insert little dancing marshmallows)

My understanding is that there was a three year contract for LDRS 2010, 2011, and 2012 with TRA and the Discovery/Science Channel. This has been fulfilled and apparently a new contract has not been drawn up.

I do not know if either party has approached the other or not to pursue any further coverage.

The Myth Busters have gotten private parties to purchase rocket motors. The Discovery Channel could do anything they want..:y:

Their absence from LDRS 32 is good news
There is too much to concentrate on...and then all the other logistics like food +lodging+transportation+family?:bangpan:

JStitz said:

Alex..the best part of going to an LDRS or BALLS launch is the social overload.

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That was the central memory I'll always have of the one LDRS I've been to. I worked as Pad Manager the first day of LDRS XV, the first one in Orangeburg, SC, and that gave me a front row seat to seeing some pretty cool stuff, and meet more people than I could possibly recall having met.

MClark said:

There was a discussion at the Tripoli Gerlach meeting of doing LDRS as research for all days.

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Just to exclude NAR members? I thought the point of having LDRS at Black Rock was to be more inclusive than BALLS. If I wanted to join TRA and go to Black Rock, I'd just go to BALLS.

Just to exclude NAR members?

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No, the purpose is to allow folks to fly research all four days at the best HPR launch site in the world. As a TRA member and research-only flyer, I would be stoked! It would seem only an unfortunate consequence that NAR doesn't support research, effectively banning NAR-only members from flying. LDRS is a Tripoli event anyway, not a NAR event.

mikec said:

Just to exclude NAR members? I thought the point of having LDRS at Black Rock was to be more inclusive than BALLS. If I wanted to join TRA and go to Black Rock, I'd just go to BALLS.

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NAR members are always welcome at Tripoli events, but to fly on research-only days, they must also be Tripoli members.

Given the expense, for most of us, of travelling to Black Rock and flying a bunch of HPR motors, adding $70 to join and support the sponsoring organization isn't prohibitive. If it is, consider flying one less rocket.

Sully said:

NAR members are always welcome at Tripoli events, but to fly on research-only days, they must also be Tripoli members.

Given the expense, for most of us, of travelling to Black Rock and flying a bunch of HPR motors, adding $70 to join and support the sponsoring organization isn't prohibitive. If it is, consider flying one less rocket.

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Definitely a good point. While excluding NAR would not be ideal, it isn't expensive to join Tripoli, and if you can justify the gas costs and propellant costs, you can pay the price for joining tripoli

Would there be someone from the East side of the country who will be driving out, with room for carrying an EX O motor? I'm in Va and could drive it a few states away, or meet at a launch, next summer. I figure to ship the rest and fly.

PM me please if you are sure you are headed out and might have some room. I'd pay for some of the cost of the drive of course! I know that likely many in the East are in the same boat. I'm a bit new to the logistics of this - it will be my first Black Rock.

Thanks!
Gerald

G_T said:

Would there be someone from the East side of the country who will be driving out, with room for carrying an EX O motor? I'm in Va and could drive it a few states away, or meet at a launch, next summer. I figure to ship the rest and fly.

PM me please if you are sure you are headed out and might have some room. I'd pay for some of the cost of the drive of course! I know that likely many in the East are in the same boat. I'm a bit new to the logistics of this - it will be my first Black Rock.

Thanks!
Gerald

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I know there's a group in either Pittsburg or Philly that drives out to BALLS every year, and they usually bring stuff for various people. I'm sure one of the BALLS regulars could put you in touch with them. Talk to Bob Utley, he's the one who told me about them.

A bunch of the Tripoli Gerlach members live in Pitt.

Mark

Anybody have project updates for this?

edwinshap1 said:

Anybody have project updates for this?

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Bare Necessities will probably be there.

I keep checking the website but they have pushed the date for info back now till February 1st.

They don't want it to become BALLS, so I want to hear what their restrictions are. Velocity, Altitude, Weight, Impulse, Complexity, Subjective??? That will be very important in figuring out what "Large and Dangerous" projects will be allowed.

I think in attempting to make this a "Family" event, they are forced to loose the massive projects, understandably.

bandman444 said:

I keep checking the website but they have pushed the date for info back now till February 1st.

They don't want it to become BALLS, so I want to hear what their restrictions are. Velocity, Altitude, Weight, Impulse, Complexity, Subjective??? That will be very important in figuring out what "Large and Dangerous" projects will be allowed.

I think in attempting to make this a "Family" event, they are forced to loose the massive projects, understandably.

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There was an O that crashed and a P that shredded at LDRS 29, though.

Nobody will be stopping anyone from flying minimum diameter N's, given that for people who only want to travel far for big launches, this will be their chance to fly really high. Our at least that is what I sincerely hope, since we really cannot make most other launches at Black Rock.

CarVac said:

There was an O that crashed and a P that shredded at LDRS 29, though.

Nobody will be stopping anyone from flying minimum diameter N's, given that for people who only want to travel far for big launches, this will be their chance to fly really high. Our at least that is what I sincerely hope, since we really cannot make most other launches at Black Rock.

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1: My comment was not at all point toward you and your teams rocket. It sounded as though your response was such.

2: Absolutely someone can stop a minimum diameter N from flying. I guess I don't understand your statement or point, RSO, Club, Organization all hold the right to say No Go.

Sure they will have a space height waiver, but it doesn't mean they will let anyone take advantage of it.

It did sound like it was directed at least somewhat in response to mine.

But I was basically saying that of all the limits they'll set, I doubt they'll blanket-ban minimum diameter N motors. O's, maybe.

My point was that we don't know. I'v been stating the fact of the rules they might impose for a while. Nothing you started.

Aksrockets said:

Hey! Ill have my driver's licence by then so I might be going to this one!

Alex

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Road Trip !

I was hoping to win the lottery first then, start up Rocket Town USA up the road from Bruno's.
Next step would to be to build a Holiday Inn Express....


JD

Yoehahn said:

My mom said i should take my gf, my friend and I, rent a truck and have people pay us to transport rockets and motors and such. Not bad.... except for the 44 Hour drive almost cross country. idk we will see

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I am special and can open the LDRS web page draft. These are the rules.
The idea is "LDRS is not BALLS" but BIG rockets with a high chance of success can launch.

Mark

Class 3
A Class 3 rocket is defined as any amateur rocket propelled by a motor (or motors) totaling more than 40,960 Newton-seconds (a “P” motor or greater). This distinct class of amateur rocket requires its own “Certificate of Waiver or Application” to be legally flown. There will be NO exceptions to this rule. While Class 3 flights will not be turned away, if your project requires a Class 3 Waiver consider attending BALLS in September.
Any and all Class 3 flights to be done at LDRS 32 MUST be approved in advance (2) by TRA Class 3 committee and LDRS Special Projects Coordinator
No more than two stages will be permitted.
No Odd rockets.

Two stage: Team must have a successful track record with two stage rockets
All stages must have a CG/CP of 10% + of length of rocket
First stage minimum 8 G's off pad.

Clusters: Team must have a successful (1) track record with clusters of equal or greater number of motors.
If air start, ground ignited motors must be capable of powering rocket to a successful flight.
Maximum decent under parachute 30 ft/sec
Maximum simmed altitude 75% of waiver

Flights over 100,000', team must have a successful launch over 50,000' prior to LDRS32. You must show proof of having had a successful launch to over 50k to go over 100k. The idea is to not have LDRS be BALLS, if you want to go high and have no track record go to BALLS.

Under Class 3

All O impulse rockets must be approved in advance (2) by LDRS Special Projects Coordinator.

Multistage over M total impulse must be approved in advance (2) by LDRS Special Projects Coordinator.
Flyer/Team must have a successful (1) track record with multistage rockets.
All stages must have a CG/CP of 10% + of length of rocket
First stage minimum 8 G's off pad.

Odd Rockets

All odd rockets over K must be approved in advance (2) by LDRS Special Projects Coordinator.
All odd rockets over K must have been launched successfully Full scale or Subscale (3).
Maximum decent rate is 30 ft/sec.

Mass Launches (Drag Races)
(3 or more rockets intended to be launched simultaneously)

Rockets will be launched from the complex distance for the total impulse of the group
Total impulse of the group shall not exceed O, 40,860Nsec
No more than 10 rockets will be attempted to be launched at one time. This means all the rockets in the first group have landed before a second group is launched.
No Odd Rockets.
All must have active recovery with a decent rate not greater than 30’/sec Flyers must have previously successfully launched and recovered a rocket of the same or great er impulse
No multi stage or clusters.
Drag races with any rocket in the group having L or greater impulse must be approved in advance (2) by LDRS Special Projects Coordinator.

Away Cells

Away Cells will be permitted on Saturday and Sunday only.
Must be approved in advance (2) by LDRS Special Projects Coordinator
No children under 18 are allowed at the Away Cells.
No non-Tripoli members are allowed in the Away Cells.

Notes:

•(1) Successful = straight boost, parachutes deployed and recovered undamaged. As in a good cert launch.
•(2) Advance = Must be submitted no later than 1 month before launch
•(3) Subscale = 25% (linear dimensions) or larger of rocket to be launched
•(4) Range Boss = Chief PM

This probably is not the right place to debate the rules, but the "over 50k required for over 100k" is awfully strict, given that no Tripoli record is even over 50k (according to the website currently).

Hasn't been updated, but Ken Biba's N1000 rocket was over 50K.

Yes, but nonetheless it hasn't been updated.

They also may not have applied for it to be a record.

Just because someone flew that high doesn't mean they cared about setting a record.

-Kevin

MClark said:

I am special and can open the LDRS web page draft. These are the rules.
The idea is "LDRS is not BALLS" but BIG rockets with a high chance of success can launch.

Mark

Class 3
A Class 3 rocket is defined as any amateur rocket propelled by a motor (or motors) totaling more than 40,960 Newton-seconds (a “P” motor or greater). This distinct class of amateur rocket requires its own “Certificate of Waiver or Application” to be legally flown. There will be NO exceptions to this rule. While Class 3 flights will not be turned away, if your project requires a Class 3 Waiver consider attending BALLS in September.
Any and all Class 3 flights to be done at LDRS 32 MUST be approved in advance (2) by TRA Class 3 committee and LDRS Special Projects Coordinator
No more than two stages will be permitted.
No Odd rockets.

Two stage: Team must have a successful track record with two stage rockets
All stages must have a CG/CP of 10% + of length of rocket
First stage minimum 8 G's off pad.

Clusters: Team must have a successful (1) track record with clusters of equal or greater number of motors.
If air start, ground ignited motors must be capable of powering rocket to a successful flight.
Maximum decent under parachute 30 ft/sec
Maximum simmed altitude 75% of waiver

Flights over 100,000', team must have a successful launch over 50,000' prior to LDRS32. You must show proof of having had a successful launch to over 50k to go over 100k. The idea is to not have LDRS be BALLS, if you want to go high and have no track record go to BALLS.

Under Class 3

All O impulse rockets must be approved in advance (2) by LDRS Special Projects Coordinator.

Multistage over M total impulse must be approved in advance (2) by LDRS Special Projects Coordinator.
Flyer/Team must have a successful (1) track record with multistage rockets.
All stages must have a CG/CP of 10% + of length of rocket
First stage minimum 8 G's off pad.

Odd Rockets

All odd rockets over K must be approved in advance (2) by LDRS Special Projects Coordinator.
All odd rockets over K must have been launched successfully Full scale or Subscale (3).
Maximum decent rate is 30 ft/sec.

Mass Launches (Drag Races)
(3 or more rockets intended to be launched simultaneously)

Rockets will be launched from the complex distance for the total impulse of the group
Total impulse of the group shall not exceed O, 40,860Nsec
No more than 10 rockets will be attempted to be launched at one time. This means all the rockets in the first group have landed before a second group is launched.
No Odd Rockets.
All must have active recovery with a decent rate not greater than 30’/sec Flyers must have previously successfully launched and recovered a rocket of the same or great er impulse
No multi stage or clusters.
Drag races with any rocket in the group having L or greater impulse must be approved in advance (2) by LDRS Special Projects Coordinator.

Away Cells

Away Cells will be permitted on Saturday and Sunday only.
Must be approved in advance (2) by LDRS Special Projects Coordinator
No children under 18 are allowed at the Away Cells.
No non-Tripoli members are allowed in the Away Cells.

Notes:

•(1) Successful = straight boost, parachutes deployed and recovered undamaged. As in a good cert launch.
•(2) Advance = Must be submitted no later than 1 month before launch
•(3) Subscale = 25% (linear dimensions) or larger of rocket to be launched
•(4) Range Boss = Chief PM

Click to expand...

Thank you MClark.

I am pleased to see these rules in effect for LDRS. I wouldn't at all be against TRA adopting these rules nationally.

Wanna fly over 100k prove it. Just seems like common sense to me.

That or organize your own launch where no one but you is liable.


Again cheers to the club organizers. I may not be able to attend LDRS this year but I hope everyone else has a good and SAFE time.

The LDRS website has been up and running since earlier in the week. The same rules that Mark posted in this thread are now up for everyone to see at www.ldrs32.com. My personal opinion is you should plan to go to BALLS instead of LDRS if you can't meet the LDRS rules. Research rules now allow use of commercial motors, and have for several years.

I don't forsee nearly as many family members or spectators as other LDRS launches due to BLM rules. Every spectator has to pay because the BLM charges the LDRS event organizes for every person present at the event.