X-34 Rocket Glider?

[Rocketbuilder]

Has anyone done this before? It seems like it would be fairly good at the boost part, since the wings are so far back, and I know I can get it to glide if I build it light enough. Earlier today I conducted some glide tests with a very rough model, a 300% upscale of this paper model: http://jleslie48.com/x34/cs.html
The model was pretty well destroyed in the testing (I threw it out a window ) but I was able to locate the glide CG. Of course the actual rocket-boosted version will glide much faster, since it's going to be a lot heavier than the paper model, but it seems workable.
Thoughts, suggestions, documentation of previous attempts at this?
Thanks in adance.

[aerostadt]

It has been done here

http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthr...highlight=x-34

[Rocketbuilder]

It has been done here

http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthr...highlight=x-34

Interesting-- I was not even aware of that variant. I was referring to this one:
Astronautix calls it the X-34A1, the one you posted the link to was the X-34B. So, this will be a much different challenge. But that link was still useful, since MaxQ used the same technique of glueing foam blocks between balsa formers that I was planning on using.
I think that on my model, I won't use the balsa spar method, partly because I have no experience with it, and partly it seems so fragile. So, I'll just airfoil the balsa wings, and if it glides like a brick, oh well. I'm not trying to build a glider that glides really well, I'm just trying to build a glider that glides somewhat. Plus, I'll construct it in such a way that if it fails the glide test, I can have the nose cone pop off and use traditional parachute recovery.

[MaxQ]

I haven't done much with mine since family and work commitments have side tracked my hobby time.
All the variants are interesting, and the guy you need to get to know is Scott, so check out his project over here:

"X-40A Build"

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ht=x+40a+build

http://www.spacecraftreplicas.com/x-37-x-40

scroll near the bottom.

[Rocketbuilder]

Yeah, his X-40 seemed to glide pretty well (of course he did have some control). But it seems like a rocket boosted X-34 would have to be much heavier than an RC glider.
Believe me, I have no illusions about its performance; this thing's going to glide like a brick, if it even glides at all!
Tomorrow I'll try and upload pics of my paper glide test model.

[kjohnson]

A rocket boosted glider doesn't have to be heavier than than the dropped RC version. You would be adding some mass in the tube to hold the motor mount and if you go with a power pod (aka boom tube) all the mass you add to get the CG forward for boost will be gone from the model for glide phase. Unless you are planning some other way of making the model work, there is no internal differnce to how you'd make the X34A work than how MaxQ did his X34B.

So what were you going to do? Keep the motor with the model the whole flight? Tell us more about what you are thinking and we can steer you to solutions that will work and give you a better chance of success.

kj

[Rocketbuilder]

A rocket boosted glider doesn't have to be heavier than than the dropped RC version. You would be adding some mass in the tube to hold the motor mount and if you go with a power pod (aka boom tube) all the mass you add to get the CG forward for boost will be gone from the model for glide phase. Unless you are planning some other way of making the model work, there is no internal differnce to how you'd make the X34A work than how MaxQ did his X34B.

So what were you going to do? Keep the motor with the model the whole flight? Tell us more about what you are thinking and we can steer you to solutions that will work and give you a better chance of success.

kj

I was thinking that I would make the nose section of the model out of balsa and foam sanded to shape, like MaxQ's X-34B, with a hole bored through that section for a tube. The very back part (the boxy section) would be made of thin Depron-like foam. A (probably BT-55) tube would run the length of the model. Inside that tube, there would be the BT-50 motor mount, which would be set up as a boom tube; attached to the boom tube there would be a dowel that reached to the nose of the model, with a weight on the end. A small parachute or streamer could be tucked between the centering rings of the motor mount.
I'm still not sure how I would get the motor mount to bring up the elevons when it ejects. Suggestions?

[kjohnson]

Normally you'd have something attached to the motor pod that would hold the elevons down. When the boom tube slides out of the way, the holddowns go with it and the elevons are free to move. The most common way to make the elevons move is with some elastic. You could make some torsion springs though if you don't want to clutter up the ouside of the model with rubber bands.

For something like your X34A where the wings are further forward than the end of the fuselage, you could have a dowel that sticks forward. With that boxy fuselage, you could even have all that internal to the midel so nothign would stick out.

Look at the instructions for the Sky Dart or Scissor Wing Transport for ideas on that.

kj

[Rocketbuilder]

I'll probably have to wait until I build at least a prototype model to find out if it will work, but I had an idea involving an internal tension spring and some tiny neodymium super-magnets. I'll just have to see if they are light/strong enough.
This project will certainly be vastly more complicated than anything else I've ever done in rocketry, especially since it all has to be mechanical. (I'm too cheap to buy electronics. )
I think I'll order some Depron foam and build a fully functional boilerplate model, then build a nice pretty one. Or, depending on how good the boilerplate model looks, I may just paint it.
Should be fun. I may even do a build thread on this...

[luke strawwalker]

It doesn't HAVE to glide that much faster or be that much heavier... if you use an ejectable core tube with the motor and noseweight necessary to move the CG forward enough to make a straight ballistic rocket flight...

Later! OL JR

[AstronMike]

I think I'll order some Depron foam and build a fully functional boilerplate model,...

Um....just *exactly* what type/thickness of Depron are you looking at here, kiddo? Reason I ask is that I'm overrun with the stuff, especially the 3mm, which I believe is the best for reasonable rocket powered gliders. You'll see these close and personal this very Saturday if lucky! Depron comes in sheets, unlike the balsa planks only 4" wide, so you can do some larger parts cutting with those.

Are you used to Depron at all? Be warned, although the stuff is *exceedingly light* compared to same thickness balsa, it's also quite a bit flimsier, and needs some reinforcment. Not much, mind you, but *some*. You'll see what and how on any of the gliders I bring with this. Also, Depron doesn't really glue well with conventional adhesives, not that it really needs to.

You could go really cheapo and use Adams Readiboard, which is perfect for nonstandard gliders and boilerplates thereof, especially if you are not making huge span wings and such.

[Rocketbuilder]

3mm may be a little thick, but I think it would be fine. As far as reinforcement, I plan on having a pultruded carbon fiber spar running from wingtip to wingtip. (The wings themselves will be made of two sheets of foam, with the spar in between, allowing for a sort of airfoil shape.) And no, I haven't had any experience making anything with Depron, although I have handled a few planed made of it.
Also, another question; I presume I will need to coat the foam nose section with something to make it smooth enough to paint, correct? MaxQ, what did you use? Also, it seems that due to its brick-like gliding characteristics, it will need to be protected on the bottom of the forward section, so it doesn't get too dinged up on impact landing by small rocks and such in the field. Would something like 0.5 oz fiberglass work for this?
Thanks.

BTW, Mike, yes I will be there Saturday. In fact, I'll be flying my first reload, and AT E18-7W. Are you planning on flying any D5's?

[MaxQ]

I left the pink foam bare naked...and yes it is dinged from landing.
The open bay balsa wings are monokoted per typical RC model plane techniques.
Other fuselage parts are heavy white paper.

I could get into a discussion of fiberglassing over foam - or even vacumn bagging fiberglass over foam, but I didn't think a test protype merited the effort.

[Rocketbuilder]

Thanks- good to know. I think I'll probably glass the boilerplate model since I need the weight to be the same as on the final model, and because I need to learn how to fiberglass things.

[Rocketbuilder]

Progress has halted due to the fact that I need to finish up some other builds for this Saturday, but over the next few weeks hopefully I'll be able to start building the prototype. So far all I have in the way of materials is the carbon fiber spar I picked up at the LHS.
But anyway, here's a pic of the glide test model. Yes, I know, I forgot the horizontal stab underneath the engine bell , but that has since been corrected.

[MaxQ]

Anything more on this one?

[Rocketbuilder]

Not yet. I've got quite a few other projects going on at the moment, plus school's back to getting in the way. I'm not sure when I'll start on this, but I'll let you know when I do.

[Bernardon]

X 34 Rocket glider is known to me as an effort by NASA in orbital science.
It is both deluxe and angler variant which led to new phase of launch to NASA.