What's the difference between the yellow and blue tape?
Thinks before building.
What's the difference between the yellow and blue tape?
2013 impulse burned: 5205.1 Ns
2013 impulse lined up to burn: ~56,445 Ns
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Ahh that could work quite well. I'll just take them all to work! So, 24 hours at 72 F and then ~10 hours at ~120F should be good?Originally Posted by troj
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The difference is the green (it's not really yellow, that's bad lighting) is a higher grade automotive masking tape that is designed for painting and sticks well and doesn't absorb paint. It is also narrower. Also it looked cool
Anyways. On to new things. I have started building a launch tower with parts from old projects around the lab. I'm using 6, 5' sections of 8020 T-Slot inside of a large air tank holder. I am going to use 12 7" sections of angle iron to make the diameter adjustable. I should be able to finish it later today as soon as I can get into the shop to cut all my angle iron. I tried to use a dremel tool to cut angle iron and it was awful. I am wondering if I should make the tower attach to an existing launch pad or make my own stand for it?
Next, I found an old vaccum oven and I put the Mariah in it at about 150 degrees (is that a good temp?, it can go much hotter). The epoxy got much harder in the couple hours I was there. It should be ready to sand soon.
I also did the first coat of primer on the Chariot and did some light sanding.
Last edited by tagerton; 13th July 2012 at 03:50 PM.
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A few updates. I mostly completed the launch tower this weekend. It should work very well. My only concern is that the plates attaching the center rods can catch the fins if there is significant rotation in the rocket. I could machine down those plates, or I could not worry about it.
The Chariot got its second coat of primer. Painting is hard! Trying to get paint in between the fins and the booster tubes is very challenging without getting really thick spots nearby.
The Mariah fin fillets are sanded and the spirals are filled. Painting will commence soon. I am thinking about doing a paint scheme somewhat like the BMW art car. Something about it really appeals to me.
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Some updates:
I launched the Chariot! .... and it crashed. At ejection, due to the lack of motor retention, it popped the motor and not the chute. I may build my own motor retention for it now. The only real damage, (other than a few cracks in the tube which are already fixed) is the nosecone. The phenolic tubing is amazingly durable. I want some more. If anyone knows where to get another Rocket Vision nosecone for the Chariot let me know.
Also, the Mariah is primed and ready to be painted after 4 coats of primer and sanding. The seam between the nosecone and tube is invisible as are the spirals (finally!)
I have come up with, what I think to be a really cool paint scheme. Hang tight.
-Ted
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Paint is the devil! (not really, I just looked at that thread too much).
... but it does feel like that sometimes. I am painting my fins different colors. I painted one fin blue, and it looked great, and then I waited 48 hours and masked it off to paint the other fin. I painted that fin red, and then after a few hours put it in ~150 degree heat for ~4 hours to help cure it. When I pulled off the tape on the blue fin, it was ruined. Now I am going to sand down the blue and repaint. So, was it the heat + the masking tape, or just the masking tape? I am wondering how long I need to wait before I mask off a painted color. I am using Rustoleum ultra 2x.
Something arrived in the mail.... Uh oh... it looks like an Extreme Wildman kit. Oh dear, that may just have to be built soon.
-Ted
Rocksim Pro
Okay first of all you do not use masking tape. You use the blue painters tape. Second when you heat up masking tape it melts and becomes more sticky which is why the blue paint got peeled off with it. Always allow for it to cure on its own. Have patience. Here is what I do. Paint and then wait for an hour. Use blue painters tape to cover up. Then paint other color and wait for another hour. And then wait a full 24 hours for full cure.Paint is the devil! (not really, I just looked at that thread too much).
... but it does feel like that sometimes. I am painting my fins different colors. I painted one fin blue, and it looked great, and then I waited 48 hours and masked it off to paint the other fin. I painted that fin red, and then after a few hours put it in ~150 degree heat for ~4 hours to help cure it. When I pulled off the tape on the blue fin, it was ruined. Now I am going to sand down the blue and repaint. So, was it the heat + the masking tape, or just the masking tape? I am wondering how long I need to wait before I mask off a painted color. I am using Rustoleum ultra 2x.
Something arrived in the mail.... Uh oh... it looks like an Extreme Wildman kit. Oh dear, that may just have to be built soon.
-Ted
Member
Thanks for the advice, I actually was using blue painters tape. (I just still call it masking tape). Yeah, I think I'm going to avoid using the heat with the masking tape. So you apply tape as early as 1 hour after painting? I may wait 24 hours, but it sounds like it was just the heat that caused the problem. The reason why I wanted to use heat, was even after 48 hours, the paint still seems not completely cured. I can make indentations with my fingernails / finger prints.
-Ted
Rocksim Pro
That is why you must be careful how you handle it. It is what I have been doing and once I got the paint that I have want I wait for the full 24 hours to allow to cure completely. I am going to get a second Mariah 38 later on. I like it so much I just feel like having two.
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Yes patience is key to building a good rocket. Something I should be more aware of.
On another note:
Altimeters. I am planning on getting a Telemetrum for primary tracking / deployment purposes. I need a backup and I am liking the looks of the Adept22. It is reasonably priced and should fit the bill.
-Ted
Rocksim Pro
You have plenty of space to put on the sled. Just a recommendation use a featherweight magnetic switch. It is what I used on my Mariah 38 for its first flight. It will save you the trouble of taking it apart just to activate your altimeter. Heres a picture of my assembled sled with the electronics
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I have continued painting the Mariah. It has proven more difficult than I anticipated. The bottom area is mostly done. Some of the paint is not as smooth as I would like. I am debating whether to sand the paint or to sand the clearcoat or to sand both.
Those nose section, I painted red, blue, and yellow in equal parts. I sanded down the paint with 600, then 2000 grit. It looked good. Then I wiped down with some alcohol, and clear coated. It wrinkled in two spots (primarily on the yellow). Very frustrating. It could have been due to incomplete evaporation of wet sanding / alcohol (although I don't think so). It could have been I applied the clear coat too thick. I'm really not sure why it did that. I waited more than 48 hours after painting. (The yellow coat was the last one).
I am using Rustoleum ultra 2x on everything. Right now I have sanded down the clear coat past the wrinkles. I will try clear coating again, then sanding and polishing it.
Also, as seen in my Wildman Extreme build thread, my Telemetrum arrived. One problem, it barley fits in the 29mm payload bay, and the mounting holes are too spread out to fit on the payload by sled. I may install small wooden blocks for it to sit on.
Rocksim Pro
Looking good tagerton. Remember patience is the key and being careful on how much you apply. As to why the paint wrinkled I believe it was the Alcohol. The clear coat is meant to seal the paint and protect it. For some reason all the yellows tend to like smear and wrinkle a lot. Good luck on the mounting the Telemetrum. I was lucky the altimeter I used had only 2 mounting holes. I feel like I am going to struggle with getting the AIM XTRA to go into the Mariah 54 Sled since it has four holes one on each corner of the device. Well best of luck to you tagerton.I have continued painting the Mariah. It has proven more difficult than I anticipated. The bottom area is mostly done. Some of the paint is not as smooth as I would like. I am debating whether to sand the paint or to sand the clearcoat or to sand both.
Those nose section, I painted red, blue, and yellow in equal parts. I sanded down the paint with 600, then 2000 grit. It looked good. Then I wiped down with some alcohol, and clear coated. It wrinkled in two spots (primarily on the yellow). Very frustrating. It could have been due to incomplete evaporation of wet sanding / alcohol (although I don't think so). It could have been I applied the clear coat too thick. I'm really not sure why it did that. I waited more than 48 hours after painting. (The yellow coat was the last one).
I am using Rustoleum ultra 2x on everything. Right now I have sanded down the clear coat past the wrinkles. I will try clear coating again, then sanding and polishing it.
Also, as seen in my Wildman Extreme build thread, my Telemetrum arrived. One problem, it barley fits in the 29mm payload bay, and the mounting holes are too spread out to fit on the payload by sled. I may install small wooden blocks for it to sit on.
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Thanks. When you say it was the alcohol, do you think it was the alcohol evaporating or just the usage of alcohol in the first place? As in, should I use something else, or just wait longer?
Rocksim Pro
I believe you should have waited a little bit longer for the alcohol to have completely dried. Also to be honest tagerton I dont like Rustoleum paints. For some reason some of their paints have like a shrinkage issue. On 3 low powered rockets I used a Black Automotive Sandable Primer from Rustoleum and everytime I primed the model I would get cracks and wrinkes. From then on I dont use Rustoleum. Its just my opinion on them. Ive never tried those doubled cover cans before. It looks like they are working great for you. I still believe the alcohol was still a little wet and when mixed with the clear coat must have created a reaction. Just out of curiousity why did you use alcohol for? What was the purpose on that?
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Yeah, for my next rocket I may be trying another type of paint. Actually, I kind of want to go talk nicely to an autobody shop and see if they can paint my rocket for a reasonable price.
I used alcohol to clean the surface after wet sanding. One thing I have found is the surface needs to be clean before painting. It could've been water that soaked in to the paint as well.
This is the first problem I've had with the Rusto 2x, and it's just with the clear coat. I'm going to try it again, but if it doesn't work, I'll either go with no clear or maybe try that SprayMax 2 part clear that I posted earlier.
What kind of paint do you use?
Rocksim Pro
I like to use the ACE Hardware brand paints. They have given me no problems so far and they are awesome to wetsand. Just be sure you lay down a thick coat before sanding or wetsanding. Otherwise you will go right through the paint and into the airframe. Using some nice 600 grit wetdry sandpaper the surface is smooth and flat ready for the colored paints. After that whatever I want for special affects like metallic paints I use Dupli-Color. Well hopefully things work out for you. By the way I like your tower a lot. I really wished the club I went to had one. I really didnt want to install those ACME Rails so far all they have done is scratch me lol.
Banned
I usually use Rustoleum paints, and yes, they will wrinkle if you put them on too heavy. It happened to my LOC Fantom
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Even when I didnt apply such a heavy coat it would still shrink and wrinkle.
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tagerton I have yet to ask you what motor do you plan on using for you Mariah 38?
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I've got a 2-grain 38mm Cesaroni that I was going to put in it for the first flight. If that works, then I may go to a 6-grain Cesaroni. It really depends on what's available.
I need to get a smaller battery for the Telemetrum. The battery it came with is 29.5mm wide. grrr.
Everything is going to be a tight fit with the Adept DD22 as backup with its battery.
Rocksim Pro
I too am going to have trouble with getting the AIM XTRA into the Mariah 54 G10 board. Of course I am sure there is a way to mount it in there. If you have some ideas please post them here so I can get an idea.
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So I do have an idea that I have not tried yet. What I was thinking was using essentially a cut piece of something the size of that wooden cylinder that is at the top of the sled. Say you have another one of those parts, you could cut it so it was maybe 1/2" tall and 1/2" long and curved on the sides. It would be the maximum size you could fit in the tube. You could then attach it to the sled and then attach the board to the wooden block with screws and/or standoffs.
I am not sure how I am going to mount the battery(ies?) either. If I have a backup altimeter, then it will need a battery too. It'll be really nice when I have so much room to work with on my wildman!
Today I also ordered a 400mAh Li-ion battery from sparkfun. I'm pretty sure it will work. It's 25mm wide, which should fit. https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10718
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This is what I planned to do cut a 1/16 G10 piece measuring 1/4 wide and the length will be the same as the altimeter. Then I will drill a hole in the middle and mount that piece to a 4-40 standoff. Then drill the holes on the sides where the altimeter mounting holes are at. It should work. I might just need a tab bit taller standoff.
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OK so you're just going to have one screw mounting to the sled for each stand off?
Rocksim Pro
It will work but you can also put two standoffs for the sled.
Rocksim Pro
Any new updates tagerton?
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I went to New Mexico for the weekend for a fishing trip with my parents, so no rocket building.
On the way back, during some very intense rain storms, (So glad I just got new tires!), I stopped by the Apogee Components office in the Springs. I picked up two G76-4 reloads for my Aerotech 29/40-120 case, a 2 grain Cesaroni reload, and a Cesaroni 38mm 6XL case.
I plan on getting L1 and L2 at my next launch. (I already had L1, but lost all the paperwork) I think I should be able to launch my Wildman Extreme on the 6XL too. Or I could really push the altitude and go for 15,000+' on the Mariah.
I'm debating how I should rig up the electronics in the Mariah. I could go with my fully redundant (and very expensive) system, the Adept DD22 and the Telemetrum. It's going to be really hard to fit everything in there. There is less risk for failure of the electronics, but if something goes wrong, I'm out of $400. I hear that some people's air frames on these are unwrapping. That could happen on a 6XL reload. I could just put the Telelmetrum in there, it's more much more functional and expensive. But just for the G's and H's I probably won't need tracking so the DD22 would work by it self.
How often are backup altimeters needed? I haven't tested them yet (I will soon). But I won't have flown any of them at all on the first flight.
-Ted
Rocksim Pro
My launch site is in New Mexico. Do not worry about the magnaframe unwrapping. You just need to hope for the best that nothing happens because once you go past Mach 1 its anyones game. Just to make sure if you want to make sure nothing goes wrong is make sure there is absolutely no wind. It has to be completely calm. Also fire it off that tower you made so you can get more speed and more altitude. After that good luck
Rocksim Pro
I have never had back up altimeters. All my deployments so far have never failed. If you feel that you need back up I would go for it. I hear that the apogee event will need a stronger kick to break those shear pins on the Mariah 38. So in my opinion having a back up on that apogee charge would be a good idea. This way in case the first charge doesnt work the second will. Unless you just do ground tests and check if they will break each time from the same amount of powder. Then you will be just find
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