Wildman Blackhawk 38mm Questions

[GRIFFIN]

You can fly a Wildman "Jr Series" rocket on an H motor with dual deploy and no tracker. The problem with the Blackhawk, is that is a high altitude bird and hard to keep low. Try a Darkstar Jr or Wildman Jr or Wild Thang Jr. .....or about 6 more "Jr." choices. I have flown my Wildman Jr. on an H242 and it went about 1200 feet. No tracker needed, cheaper than the Blackhawk, great rocket for any motor that will fit in it. You could even use it for your level 2 if you wanted in the future.

Don't get me wrong, the Blackhawk is great.....just not for L1 cert flights without tracking.

[BLKKROW]

You can fly a Wildman "Jr Series" rocket on an H motor with dual deploy and no tracker. The problem with the Blackhawk, is that is a high altitude bird and hard to keep low. Try a Darkstar Jr or Wildman Jr or Wild Thang Jr. .....or about 6 more "Jr." choices. I have flown my Wildman Jr. on an H242 and it went about 1200 feet. No tracker needed, cheaper than the Blackhawk, great rocket for any motor that will fit in it. You could even use it for your level 2 if you wanted in the future.

Don't get me wrong, the Blackhawk is great.....just not for L1 cert flights without tracking.

Ill have to check them out, I just love the basic fin design of the Blackhawk and the Min Diameter. I have a lot of thinking to do.

[Reinhard]

What about a 54mm MD rocket? This would lessen both your altitude and space restraints, even when flown on a (single grain) 54mm motor.

Reinhard

[GRIFFIN]

What about a 54mm MD rocket? This would lessen both your altitude and space restraints, even when flown on a (single grain) 54mm motor.

Reinhard

I'm pretty sure a MD54 will still go 4-5k on a single grain 54. Check with C/J on that one. I would stay away from MD if expenses are a concern.

[CarVac]

You could always add drag to a rocket by, say, putting tabs on the trailing edge of the fins, especially if the stability is a concern with short motors.

[GRIFFIN]

You could always add drag to a rocket by, say, putting tabs on the trailing edge of the fins, especially if the stability is a concern with short motors.

That would be like putting snow tires on a Ferarri.

The purpose of MD is max altitude and minimum drag.

[jsargevt]

Ill have to check them out, I just love the basic fin design of the Blackhawk and the Min Diameter. I have a lot of thinking to do.

The wildman JR has a similar fin profile and I have to say that the JR-series of rockets are very tough and fun to build. If you were looking to keep your initial costs down you can build it with some JB-weld from the local box store instead of getting the "big boy" epoxy. There is a good build on the vindicator JR where CJ outlines a neat trick to getting some big internal fillets without drilling and all that.

Just offering some input while you ponder.

[Adrian A]

You should do what feels comfortable for you. I love high-performance rockets, and tracking opens up a whole other world of performance possibilities, but if it seems like too many steps to figure out at once, it probably is. I recommend getting your L1 with dual deploy on a rocket you can keep in sight, and then get your HAM license (which is pretty easy) and get comfortable tracking, and then put it all together on a really kick-butt little rocket.

[CarVac]

That would be like putting snow tires on a Ferarri.

The purpose of MD is max altitude and minimum drag.

What if you want to drive your Ferrari in snow? I was thinking that the tabs would be removable for a max performance flight, just as you can take the snow tires off the Ferrari.

[blackjack2564]

Here ya go.......from a guy "in the know". LOL

Mine weighs 2.85 lbs ready to fly, no motor.
Flown on H-123 [Aero-Tec] many times,actually my favorite motor for club launches. Average alt. 2600ft Easy to see entire flight on clear sky day.
Put CA on screw when mounting buttons, mine have stayed on all lower power flights. When I want it to rip, in the tower it goes.

The Space Cowboy is Wildmans version for 54 minimum. It replaces the 54 Goose in the line up.Cheaper, flies higher and you only need to glue the airfoiled fins on. [Only kit I know of that comes with airfoiled fins]

Ask anyone who owns one....this is one bad, serious little rocket. 100 bucks cheaper than a Goosie and does EVERYTHING better. [well almost, I'm sure there is something someone will think of]

I am building a 75mm SpaceCowboy for my entry in the DarkMattter DR.

SO Wildmans line up on minimums go like this.

Carbon Blackhawk 24
Carbon Blackhawk 29
Carbonite Blackhawk 38 [ Graphite impregnated G-12 to look like carbon NOT carbon]
Space Cowboy 54 G-12 tubes. Think we've proven a well designed kit does not HAVE to be carbon.

Space Cowboy 75mm ? Maybe....... I have one . dee...de....deeee!


I say go for it build it, fly it, get your cert. If you have good weather, large field and 1/2 a brain ya will be fine. Good luck.

If your in over your head & ya do something stooopid & lose it, well not everyone make their cert on the first attempt.Just look around the forum, plenty of evidence here. Ya can always get another one. I would put my ph# and name somewhere on it.
I just got a call Sunday from a ranger in Bong Wisconsin, lost rocket 2yrs ago, but my phone and name were writen on the coupler/av-bay. She couldn't believe i was in Savannah Georgia. [And the rocket is in perfect shape after 2 yrs in winter/summer weather. Yaaaah fiberglass!!!

I have flown it on H-123's [ AT motor] without tracker. The ONLY motor Iv'e done that on. It's slow enough to follow.

I wouldn't drive my Ferrari in the snow, but they usually plow the roads here with sunshine. LOL [we have no snow]

The BH 38 is only 125.00 - sexy as h@$$- what else can ya buy that cheap & have so much fun.

[BLKKROW]

You should do what feels comfortable for you. I love high-performance rockets, and tracking opens up a whole other world of performance possibilities, but if it seems like too many steps to figure out at once, it probably is. I recommend getting your L1 with dual deploy on a rocket you can keep in sight, and then get your HAM license (which is pretty easy) and get comfortable tracking, and then put it all together on a really kick-butt little rocket.

I have decided to purchase the Blackhawk. So Wildman expect an order from me soon, and that also means Adrian also expect an order from me for a new Altimeter.

Also anyone have the dimensions on the Power Perch for the Raven altimeter?

[Adrian A]

The Power Perch was designed with rockets larger than 38mm in mind, but I know someone has been shaved down to fit into a 38mm coupler before. For a 38mm MD bird, I would (and do) use a Featherweight 38mm av-bay. You can fit a Beeline transmitter next to the Raven in a 2" long volume if you take off the Beeline connectors.

[BLKKROW]

The Power Perch was designed with rockets larger than 38mm in mind, but I know someone has been shaved down to fit into a 38mm coupler before. For a 38mm MD bird, I would (and do) use a Featherweight 38mm av-bay. You can fit a Beeline transmitter next to the Raven in a 2" long volume if you take off the Beeline connectors.

With the 38mm av-bay does that fit into the coupler or the body of the rocket?

[Adrian A]

It fits into the coupler, and the bulkheads clamp over the ends of the coupler. It's designed for a 2" long coupler, and the way I do that is to glue 1/2" into the forward airframe, and then you have 1.5" hanging out to do the coupler job. If you're not comfortable with that, you can extend the length with 4/40 threaded rods and extra spacer to hold the battery in place.

[BLKKROW]

It fits into the coupler, and the bulkheads clamp over the ends of the coupler. It's designed for a 2" long coupler, and the way I do that is to glue 1/2" into the forward airframe, and then you have 1.5" hanging out to do the coupler job. If you're not comfortable with that, you can extend the length with 4/40 threaded rods and extra spacer to hold the battery in place.

That sounds great, is the Raven 3 in stock? Or when will it be? Or should I just stick with the Raven 2 as a beginner Altimeter.

Sorry for all the questions.

[Adrian A]

The Raven3 is in stock. I recommend the dual-axis 70G/35g version unless you want to fly it on large Vmax or warp-9 motors with > 80 Gs. The 250G range version that is in stock is a Raven2.

[BLKKROW]

The Raven3 is in stock. I recommend the dual-axis 70G/35g version unless you want to fly it on large Vmax or warp-9 motors with > 80 Gs. The 250G range version that is in stock is a Raven2.

http://www.shop.featherweightaltimet...7&categoryId=1

It states its out of stock so maybe something to fix?

[Adrian A]

Hmm, that's strange; it should show in stock, and it wasn't a problem when someone ordered one yesterday. Thanks for the heads-up.

Edit: Fixed now.

[BLKKROW]

Hmm, that's strange; it should show in stock, and it wasn't a problem when someone ordered one yesterday. Thanks for the heads-up.

Expect an order shortly.

[Neuport]

I did exactly what you are proposing last month and flew my L1 and L2 flights the same day. They also happened to be my first HPR flights. Here's my setup.

• Wildman Blackhawk 38
• Big Red Bee 70cm high power tracker in the nosecone, antenna up, slightly curled to fit, bulkplate closure so radio completely contained in sealed nosecone.
• Payload section with coupler glued in aft end as Adrian suggested as an AV bay
• Raven 2 altimeter on Power Perch; I CAREFULY sanded down the edges of the power perch and used a sandpaper covered dowel to sand shallow grooves in the coupler until the Power Perch would just slide in with a slight press.
• Bulk plates with X-mas bulb holders glued in, 2 at each end, as caps for the AV bay. I make my own bulk plates and double them up with one at coupler ID and one at coupler OD and glued so they form a lip and fit securely on ends of coupler. I used two threaded rods with nylock nuts on one end and cut down wing nuts to secure the other end. I plug a couple of X-mas bulb ejection charges into the top AV bay cover and drop it down the payload section to cap the top of the AV bay, slide the Raven in from the bottom, place the lower AV bay cover and secure with two wingnuts. Then plug in the bottom two ejection charges and assemble the rocket. I use Deans mini 4 pin connectors for quick connects for the altimeter to the rocket to make it easy to maintain and move the altimeter between airframes.
• Drogueless at apogee
• Piston ejection of main at 700 feet; piston made with an extra piece of coupler
• 1 gram black powder for all four (2 each primary and backup) ejection charges; probably overkill but I had one weak ground test so I bumped it up. The airframe and recovery system as built are plenty strong.
• Aeropack M38E minimum diameter retainer with eyelet, positioned to hold a CTI P38-6GXL. I then made up spacers with all-thread and coupling nuts to fit shorter cases. With CTI motors you also need an additional reuseable part (MC38) that screws into the delay to couple to the retainer. Note, with this setup, the retainer plugs the body tube and therefore electronic ejection is required; i.e. no motor ejection. I removed the eye bolt from the retainer, tied on my recovery harness, and then screwed it back in using a dowel with a slot in the end to grip the head of the eyebolt.
• Finish was simply wet sanding to smooth and then applying a few coats of non-hazing liquid automotive spray wax. It was very slippery.
• Tower launched to eliminate lugs/buttons.

Results:

Level 1 flight: I212SS, 6000 ft, 504 mph 15.5 G's

Level 2 flight: J425, 12844 ft, 967 MPH, 42 G’s

When the firebans are lifted and we get back to flying I plan on flying it on a J530 to around 18000 ft.

Both the L1 and L2 flights were out of sight and I only saw the rocket for a fraction of a second at liftoff. Used tracking to walk it down. L1 flight drifted about 1mile but I wouldn't have found it without tracking. L2 flight drifted 2.3 miles and there is no way I would have gone that far without the tracking signal encouraging me on. BTW, at Adrian's suggestion, I made sure I got a bearing on it while it was still in the air since the signal disappears after it drops below the horizon ( I didn't see it but knew it was down when the signal disappeared). With that bearing I walked nearly a mile to the top of a hill before I started picking up the signal and then I just walked to it. I was using the Arrow 440-7 antenna and his attenuator. I have the fox hunting loop but didn't need it.

Some thoughts:

• I like the Blackhawk 38 and the altitude and speed are cool. However, seeing your rocket fly is also cool especially with dual deploy. I will try it someday on a lower impulse motor just so I can see it. I think a large diameter rocket, e.g. 3-5 inches or so, would be nice for watching it fly.
• I had modified an E powered Estes Vagabond for dual deploy so I had an idea what I was doing before jumping into the Blackhawk with all the other complexity.
• I have built a few electronics projects before including etching my own custom designed double sided PCB's so I was "fairly" confident I knew what to watch out for as I was shaving down the Power Perch to fit. However, I could just have easily ruined the board so I don't recommend it. Another option would have been to glue a short piece of coupler into the payload section and then cut opposed slots in another piece of coupler long enough to capture the Power Perch and leave an un-slotted section sticking out to couple to the fin can. It would load similar to my description above with everything hanging off of the glued in ring. I haven't tested the fit or evaluated the strength but I think it might work and allow use of an unmodified Power Perch.

Here are some pictures of the L1 flight taken by one of the guys at the launch. No L2 pics. If you are interested I can take some detail pictures of the rocket showing how mine is setup with radio bay, altimeter bay, etc.

[BLKKROW]

@neuport

Thanks for that reply! Lots of good info in there.

If you would provide pictures of the av-bay/radio bay that would be sweet.

I am thinking about using this for tracking : http://www.bigredbee.com/zc139/index...roducts_id=199

As it should fit into the nosecone, and seems pretty easy/reliable. But for now I would only be flying this on H motors (small ones at that) before I can get comfortable with the dual deploy. Then I would want to put some I motors into it, with GPS/Radio tracking.

I just want to fly a rocket that is eye turning for my L1. I am confident in building and designs of dual deploy/launch lugs/etc. Its just daunting trying to shove everything in at once.

[dixontj93060]

Neuport congrats! Sounds well planned and well executed.

[Neuport]

Here are some pictures I took tonight. Let me know if you want more detail on something.

[BearMan]

great pics....thanks

[BLKKROW]

@Neuport

Thanks for those Pictures!

Im going to spend hours studying these pictures.

[jsargevt]

OK this thread sure makes me want to pick up a BH38 now. Soooooo many rockets. Not enough money or time!

[cwbullet]

Here are some pictures I took tonight. Let me know if you want more detail on something.

Very nice. I am absolutely goign to try putting the power perch in my 54 and 38 MD.

[Neuport]

I am thinking about using this for tracking : http://www.bigredbee.com/zc139/index...roducts_id=199

GPS should be nice. I already had a handheld 70cm radio so decided to save some money. Having a GPS coordinate would help you know whether to start walking or get in the car.

[Buckeyegator]

I am curious as to what the total cost of this BlackHawk 38 build would be minus the cost of the motor.

Thanks,
Terry

[Neuport]

I am curious as to what the total cost of this BlackHawk 38 build would be minus the cost of the motor.

Mine was less than $550 including radio and altimeter. Best guess on hardware and shipping. Assumes you already have a tracking RX and antennas. Less than $450 if you friction fit the motors, make your own bulkplates using light ply or the extra G10 that comes in the kit in the form of fin alignment jigs, skip the piston or use a small piece of the coupler that comes in the kit, use just the Raven w/o the Power Perch which would fit better anyway, and go easy on the hardware. You can get several bulkplates out of the G10 jigs and they are still useable as jigs. Christmas tree bulb igniters and sockets are free at my house since I saved an old string of lights. Only a couple of bucks for a lifetime supply if you have to go to a discount store.

125 Blackhawk kit
21 Aeropack retainer
12 CTI Adapter
4 Deans Connectors
8 Extra coupler
12 Bulkplates x 4
155 Raven
35 Powerperch
115 70cm Tracker package
20 misc hardware
20 Misc shipping
527

125 Blackhawk kit
4 Deans connectors
155 Raven
115 70cm Tracker package
10 misc hardware
20 Misc shipping
429