New guy here - legal rqmnts for safely launching rockets w/out waiver/FAA approval?

[jwalsh1]

Pardon if this is in the wrong section. My story is probably the same as many. Getting back into rockets from a long time away, and my interests are in the bigger boys. Im really confused about things and have only received conflicting information. I hope someone can set me straight!

Im heavily involved in RC airplanes, so Ive experienced the folks who havent touched a controller in their lives come into a forum and ask "Im new and want to fly turbine jets" posts and have myself directed folks to learn to fly first. So pardon if Im in that territory here.

I have a low power rocket that flies nicely on C motors and my nephews enjoy it quite a bit (how I got back into this). However, over the past decade Ive watched from the sidelines how HPR and MPR (is that a term?) rocketry and technology has grown and have wanted to get into it. The low power rockets pushed me over the edge to do something about it.

I have access to a ton of farmland outside of city limits. I also want to do everything by the book and safety is a #1 priority. I dont want to break any rules/laws etc and Id like to start dipping my feet into larger rockets.

Main ?'s:

1) Is it possible to get into larger rockets without needing certifications, waivers, FAA approvals, etc etc?
2) What are the motor limits? Ive heard everything from E is the limit to H.
3) where can I find all of the legal stuff pertaining to what I want to do?

If I could, here's what Id like to do. Again sorry if some of this is too much for a beginner -
Id purchase the largest rocket I can legally fly on a whim out at the farm utilizing smokey motors/sparky motors etc, AND be able to use that same rocket for Level 1 Certification if I so desire.

Im by no means rich, but Im also not afraid to spend some money to get good quality stuff. I dont want to drop 1000 bucks into this, but Im also not adverse to high quality stuff at a fair price point.

Is this possible?

Thanks for your help everyone!

Jason

[GDJ]

Very possible.

For the most part if I recall correctly, you can run up to a G impulse engine anywhere and not require any certification. A G is not a gutless motor, and it can send a 2" diameter rocket up fairly high and very quickly.

As for building a L1 rocket, again, not a big deal, but you can't legally buy H impulse or higher without certification, and that takes place at a club launch near your area. There is some paperwork involved, and I'm not sure of what you would need down where you are. Canada and U.S. regs and rules may differ. I would check on the NAR website for all that.

But you can build a rocket all you want to your heart's content and get all the goodies ready, and do some test launches with G- impulse engines.

Is it possible to buy a midpower kit and mod it for L1 cert? Yes, but it would require it to be a larger midpower (2" diameter I would recommend) and it will need some beefing up in the fins and motor mount. I would also change the shock cord to something a little more robust as well, but it's quite possible.

[Rex R]

basically less than 1500grams pad weight with a G80 motor and you shouldn't need any certifacations waivers etc. (aerotech Gforce). sparkies require a hpr cert, smokies do not. you should invest in a pad that can handle a 4-6' 1/4" rod and a 12v controller with 35-50' leads (this will also help you track lpr birds too). hth
rex

[jwalsh1]

Thanks for the quick response!

Thats great news, and what you mentioned - G impulse motors, was what I was thinking. I just want to make sure before I buy a rocket and all the trimmings that Im doing it right. The first step in this process for me was to figure out what the limits were before needing to get certification.

Im by no means adverse to joining a club and going further. Im just looking for a starting point and trying to understand the limits/boundries etc.

Just a quick question, I mentioned the 'sparky' and 'smokey' motors because I think that are just simply cool to watch. Are these available in F/G impulse size? Seems like a scale Nike sounding rocket wouldnt be complete without a ton of smoke coming out the back end!

Jason Walsh

This gets me going down the path, thanks again!

[jwalsh1]

basically less than 1500grams pad weight with a G80 motor and you shouldn't need any certifacations waivers etc. (aerotech Gforce). sparkies require a hpr cert, smokies do not. you should invest in a pad that can handle a 4-6' 1/4" rod and a 12v controller with 35-50' leads (this will also help you track lpr birds too). hth
rex

Ha, was typing my question about these motors as you responded and you answered it perfectly! Helps a ton, thanks!

Boy my wife wont be happy about this!

[Rex R]

and you can buy G80s at hobby lobby...
rex

[chadrog]

As for building a L1 rocket, again, not a big deal, but you can't legally buy H impulse or higher without certification, and that takes place at a club launch near your area. There is some paperwork involved, and I'm not sure of what you would need down where you are. Canada and U.S. regs and rules may differ. I would check on the NAR website for all that.

A little different south of the border - NAR HPR rules allow you to purchase/posses one high power reload for certification purposes. Many folks from your neck of the woods attend our high power launches here in S.E. Wisconsin, you should come on up sometime.

[jwalsh1]

Absolutely will. Ill try to come out to the next one (not next weekend). You arnet all that far from me - I used to fly contests up in Waukesha.

[GDJ]

A little different south of the border - NAR HPR rules allow you to purchase/posses one high power reload for certification purposes.

Unfortunately we can purchase but not possess without a cert. Someone that has Certification in a club must hold the engine(s) until the club launch, then one is transferred to the flyer. If the flyer passes, he/she may possess all the engines. If they don't, the club rep holds on to them until the next club launch.

[luke strawwalker]

I thought the rule was up to TWO G motors (H-impulse) and up to 1500 grams of total rocket weight was considered a "class one rocket" not requiring waivers or HPR certs... that can make a pretty big rocket.

As for sparkies, to my knowledge those are NOT made in anything smaller than a motor requiring a Level 1 HPR cert, to keep them out of the "general public's" hands... (IE kids, though I know more than a few adults I wouldn't trust with them either, HPR cert or no). Sparkies have some pretty specific regulations governing the conditions under which they can be launched (bare ground, minimum distances, etc.) and personally from what I've seen, you BETTER be prepared to fight a wildfire when flying them under most conditions (unless you follow the new requirements to the letter, are flying from bare dirt, on snow, or a frozen lake).

The bigger they are, the more careful you have to be...

Later and good luck! OL JR

[Aksrockets]

Thanks for the quick response!

Thats great news, and what you mentioned - G impulse motors, was what I was thinking. I just want to make sure before I buy a rocket and all the trimmings that Im doing it right. The first step in this process for me was to figure out what the limits were before needing to get certification.

Im by no means adverse to joining a club and going further. Im just looking for a starting point and trying to understand the limits/boundries etc.

Just a quick question, I mentioned the 'sparky' and 'smokey' motors because I think that are just simply cool to watch. Are these available in F/G impulse size? Seems like a scale Nike sounding rocket wouldnt be complete without a ton of smoke coming out the back end!

Jason Walsh

This gets me going down the path, thanks again!

I would start with good old estes C and D motors. In my oppinion, it's good to have a solid foundation in LPR before moving to MPR. Lpr is pretty cheap. A pack of C engines costs less then half of a single G engine. Better to play around with those until you know what you're doing.

Alex

[mkadams001]

I would start with good old estes C and D motors. In my oppinion, it's good to have a solid foundation in LPR before moving to MPR. Lpr is pretty cheap. A pack of C engines costs less then half of a single G engine. Better to play around with those until you know what you're doing.

Alex

This is good advise.
In reality MPR is just bigger low power so it is not that far of a leap. Everything is a little heavier duty but, if you can build and fly an Estes Alpha you can build a mid power kit and fly it too. Head over to the NAR site and they have all the rules and safety info. Have fun.