Sick of Crappy Cable DVR's, don't want to go back to a dish

[Zonie]

I'm on my fourth or fifth Cisco Cable DVR in two months and have had it with these crappy boxes and indifferent cable company support.

Anyone here built a HTPC, (Home Theater PC) or a DVR out of a PC?

I use a Mac now, but just before I got fed up with a bad build of Win 7, I built a pretty nice i7 Quad Core computer that just sits gathering dust. I'm thinking of building an HTPC with it but there are so many choices out there, which one to try?
The computer would run Linux pretty well, I outfitted it with a lot of memory and a 1TB HDD.

[k-rad du0d]

I had one set up a long time ago but I got rid of it because it was too noisy and power-hungry. I've seen several people just get Mac Minis for this purpose and that seems to work pretty good. Myself, I just ditched it all and went with a Roku box. I know it's not the same, but I have Netflix and Amazon Prime so I get a pretty good selection. I love the Amazon on-demand rentals.

If you had Hulu Plus, you would probably get most TV shows, but I don't know what you are trying to record.

You might check out a Roku box anyway though, they are pretty cheap. You can usually find a Roku 2 XD (1080p) for $60-70 (check Amazon).

[Marc_G]

I ditched cable / dish etc. and went strictly OTA + Netflix three years ago and never went back. I've been using my HTPC since then and LOVE IT.

Gotta run to work right now but a few good resources you can google:

Renethx's HTPC Build thread on the AVS Forum (Rene seems to have dropped off the face of the earth two months ago but it has years of accumulated wisdom plus his late 2011 build guide).

Assassin's beginner HTPC guide also on AVS Forum.

PM me if you like; I'm happy to share what wisdom I've learned.

The one thing I can't help with is cable tuners... I use an HDHomeRun to grab OTA signals but I've never messed with the cablecard versions of the tuners.

Marc

[StefanJ]

I built a Linux base "MythTV" DVR system. It is a mini-tower with 2GB of storage and three tuner cards which can receive a total of four programs at once.

For the encoded cable channels, I use an analog capture card attached to my cable set top box. A gadget called an IR blaster changes the channel just before a program is due to start.

Two of the cards (three recievers) are set up to tune in the unencoded broadcast channels that the cable companies are required to carry. Six or seven of these are HD, which is nice.

If one of the capture cards ever dies I may look into one of the external tuner boxes that has a cablecard decoder. They connect to your home Ethernet network, and the DVR captures and records the video streams.

[Zonie]

Thanks for the info.

I have Netflix on the TV, and we're looking at either a roku or an apple TV. Wifey wants the cable still...
New Tivo's have all the goodies too, incl Netflix, Amazon and Hulu plus, and it looks like amazon and hulu are included in their $15 per month.

The Tivo can take the cablecard decoder.

[k-rad du0d]

Thanks for the info.

I have Netflix on the TV, and we're looking at either a roku or an apple TV. Wifey wants the cable still...
New Tivo's have all the goodies too, incl Netflix, Amazon and Hulu plus, and it looks like amazon and hulu are included in their $15 per month.

The Tivo can take the cablecard decoder.

Apple TV is twice the cost with half the features.

[jsargevt]

The UI of the TIVO is unmatched. If you have the means, I highly recommend one. After using a Tivo for a few years I cannot figure out how to navigate a cable-company-provided device. I generally grumble trying to help my dad with it and tell him that if he wants a DVR that just works to pony up for a Tivo.

Please note that I do not have a new generation TIVO so it might have changed. I have a lot of experience with first and second-generation TIVOs, not the new ones. One thing they started to do which chafed my tuckus was to integrate ads into the main screen and the listing. When the HD tivos came out it seemed difficult and very expensive to get cable cards for your devices and now it seems pretty common and no more expensive than a box. My beef with Tivo is that it is expensive and they also continue to bombard you with ads even if you pay a monthly fee.

My experiences with HTPCs end up with me grumbling. I assisted a co-worker with one and I was working to spec one out for me. While cheaper on paper, unless you like tweaking and fiddling it seems to be a pain in the tuckus. Your wife is like mine you will never hear the end of how crappy the system is and you will get something else. Again, MythTV might have improved since my experience but this one area where a commercial solution seems to be better than DIY. Again, your experience might vary.

Good luck!

[Marc_G]

To add some flavor to my earlier response, let me elaborate on my own view of HTPCs:

For those that don't mind the system to be a hobby instead of an appliance, and who want to save long term on their media expenses, they are a godsend. For those that simply want something that just works, I recommend TiVo.

Three years ago, I set out to do the following:

1. Reduce my monthly cable TV+Internet expense of then $165. I had regular cable, digital package, HD package, a cable DVR (two, actually, though one wasn't from the cable company), and some movie channels. This was just too expensive for what I was getting out of it.
2. Give me convenient access to recorded OTA TVA (Off The Air).
3. Let me have a queue of high-def movies (and sure some standard def stuff) ready... movies I actually wanted to see, and TV series I missed as well.
4. Avoid ads / forced previews / etc. to the greatest extent possible.
5. Give me a platform to stream things from Netflix, Hulu, or whatever else came down the pike.

So I did this:
A. Sold my Sony HDDVR for $500 cash.
B. Kicked the cable co to the curb and signed up for $25/mo DSL. Not as fast as the cable modem but they had a promotion going (hence the low monthly price, locked for two years), but saved me $140/mo on cable fees.
C. Signed up for Netflix for DVD/BD/Streaming (at the time, streaming was "free"). My plan has averaged about $25 over the three years I've had it, and has actually gone both up and down during that time, and I switch # dics as needed... but I've always got plenty of stuff. So, net savings is $115/ month over the last three years factoring in media cost, internet versus the old cable+internet bill.
D. Spent about $1100 initially and about $250 since then for upgrades on an HTPC. Do the math; I broke even in month 8 and have saved several thousand since then.

What I gave up was:
-Cable sports: I didn't care, because I never watch sports
-Cable news: again, don't care, because I've got CNN online or Google News...
-Scifi channel and assorted other cable TV stuff I liked: At the time I did care, and actually delayed my switchover until Battlestar Galactica was done... I then streamed Caprica via Hulu... But There's very little content worthwhile factoring the cost difference.

What I had to put up with:

-There are excellent user interfaces (Windows Media Center plus Media Browser, for example, that's the one I use). But learning them is an investment of time and sometimes hair.
-Learning to rip discs into a queue of movies and TV shows (for clarity, I rent, rip, watch, then delete to make room, which is not the same as illegally/unethically renting, ripping, and keeping). I get two complete Netflix cycles in a typical week, or 4-6 discs depending on my plan settings, which is as much as I can watch, and some stuff just gets deleted without being watched because I lost interest compared to when I rented it.
-There are some technical issues that can trip you up. At the time, three years ago, certain types of subtitles were hard to deal with if you played the content as anything other than a real or virtual disc (I rip into a file type called MKV; this generally works well but at the time you had to jump through hoops to get subtitles from BluRay discs (but DVDs were easy) to play.
-Had to teach the system to the wife, but compared to the PAIR of cable DVRs we had (one ours, one the cable co's), going to a single interface had advantages.
-Streaming still has not come into its own from a quality perspective, compared to a properly encoded bluray (but, most people don't care so much about this).
-I've never run afoul of download caps (certain number of gigabytes per month), but the caps keep lowering and I worry that if I stream any quantity of movies I could eventually hit the cap.

Best things about what I did:
-Dramatically reduced costs
-Increased control over what I watch. 100% of my viewing is of my choice.
-No commercials!!! EVER!!!! I skip past 'em on OTA recorded TV, and when I rip discs, I don't take anything but the main movie track. IT's bliss. Bliss, I tell you.
-I have great control over what my kids see. They don't understand what a commercial is...

If I had to start over from scratch knowing what I do today:
-I would do the same thing, just with better parts/tech/software for maybe 2/3rds the initial cost

If I were to recommend something to a friend:
-If they wanted something very easy to use, I'd tell them to get a TiVo and a bluray player (then, turn BDLive the $%$* off!)
-If they were a bit tech savy, I'd suggest a rig like mine.

I hope this helps someone. The HTPC versus TiVo and other solutions is a very personal journey... there's no right or wrong, just different solutions that work for different people. After three years, my system is mostly an appliance now, and out of boredom (and to fix one minor annoying issue) I may upset the applecart and fuss with it a bit.

Marc

[Zonie]

Thanks Marc for the very detailed post. I am tech savvy, but time constrained. I'll probably get a Tivo, but you've piqued my interest regarding old vs new, and I may look for a used one on CL cheap to try. I have a 60" TV, so I've grown used to needing high def else the picture looks worse than my previous 40" Mitsu CRT TV...

If you have the means, I highly recommend one.

Thanks, Ferris, LOL!

[darthgriffin]

MaximumPC HTPC Build it projects:
HTPC w/Cable Card.
Small and quiet.Full featured rig.
Definately go for the quietest cooling you can get. While you might not notice the fans humming while you're watching car chases and explosions, that's all your wife will hear when two people are staring at each other dramatically, and she will bitch about it constantly.

[Marc_G]

MaximumPC HTPC Build it projects:
HTPC w/Cable Card.
Small and quiet.Full featured rig.
Definately go for the quietest cooling you can get. While you might not notice the fans humming while you're watching car chases and explosions, that's all your wife will hear when two people are staring at each other dramatically, and she will bitch about it constantly.

Great advice about quiet PC components! I looked at the referenced links and see they are a bit out of date, which would have no functionality deficit though you can probably do better, cheaper now. I've got a copy of the apparently final Renethx build recommendations (from late last year, so only 6 months old). I can't post them as they are still for sale (for a whopping $4), but I can also recommend looking into the Assassin guide which is current on AVS Forum (though, it's geared to beginners rather than optimizers).

Checking for CL is a good way to start. Any recent PC can do unless you have specialized needs (HD audio bitstreaming etc.). Just be sure to start with a fresh install of you OS of choice (I use Win 7 home premium, but I recommend Win 7 pro because it has remote desktop server built in so you don't need to hack it to get remote desktop).

Good luck, and feel free to PM me if I can be of any help.

Warning: HTPCs are kind of an addictive hobby. Though, nobody on this board is prone to succumbing to an addictive hobby, n'eh?

Marc

[Zonie]

I hate PC's so I'm going the Tivo route. A lot of them on CL, even new ones for cheap. I'll try it and if I like it I'll upgrade. Once you go Mac, you never go back.

[bjphoenix]

I just ordered Verizon FIOS today, including multi-room DVR.

[jsargevt]

Marc's reply says it all. When a HTPC works it is the best of all possible solutions - especially if you are looking to ditch cable period and if you're willing to fiddle with it.

I, like Marc, figured out that ditching cable could save me an incredible amount of money, especially since there was nothing worth watching on (except Good Eats). Sadly I am still tied to using cable for Internet but I pay only $50 a month as compared to close to $200 at the peak of my use.

My solution: Netflix + AppleTV + DVD. My son doesn't know what an ad is other than when he visits his cousins or grandparents. Which is a godsend. Unfortunately websites have taken to putting ads in before content (Nick Jr comes to mind readily) and I have to keep him off youtube as there is stuff on there which is completely inappropriate for a 5 year old that isn't easily restricted. However, I digress.

Glad you liked my Ferris reference. Couldn't resist. Agreed, once you go Mac you have a hard time going back. However, they need to get their act together man - the AppleTV UI is horrible and I am concerned that without the iron fist of Steve we might be seeing some ugly.