Fliskits... Upscale Project

[gary7]

For rail guides, try acme conformal rail guides.

I am familiar with rail guides. The problem with rail guides and buttons is where to place them. If you examine the original a little closer, you can see it isn't exactly the easiest thing to do, placing rail buttons and/or rail guides. Unless I have overlooked something, neither will work without mounting them sideways. There simply isn't enough room and the larger forward main airframe makes it, in my mind, very difficult if not impossible. But I will continue to try thinking of ways to employ buttons with this rocket.

If anyone has an opinion or thoughts about mounting rail buttons sideways I would certainly appreciate it, thank you.

[gdjsky01]

Oh don't worry, the plywood really is flat, I am not sure why it looks warped in this pic???

Lens distortion. Every (or most) zoom lens have to to one degree or another.
- Jeff

[dixontj93060]

Gary,

As usual great build! Keep it up!

-Tim

[gary7]

So after months of trying to figure out how to build the central assembly consisting of three "interposition tubes" (as I have referred to them), then trying to figure out how to epoxy said tubes, I finally did it. A simple jig was fashioned consisting of a single 1 x 4 with a couple of notches for holding the forward centering rings while the epoxy was applied. This was suspended from the garage ceiling until the epoxy was cured. Now this assembly is pretty rock solid compared to the bare 18 mm tubes. I got the epoxy on a little thick on one of the tubes so will have a lot of sanding/priming/sanding to do. No picture will really show it well here sorry.

I'll move on to cutting the final three main fins tomorrow then begin the process of epoxying the three structures, 1) forward main frame 2) interposition tube assembly and 3) aft assembly with the massive rings. I know it's bad to set a deadline but I am hoping to have it flight ready in one week meaning for our annual "big" club launch, GARLO 2012, here in east, central IL, Champaign. Probably will not be painted but at least primed and flight worthy by then. If anyone is in the area and wishes to stop by and fly anything up to an "H" with max altitude of 4000, join us!

Once again, the interposition assembly, but also once again, before epoxy.

[gary7]

Got all parts cut and fins now dry fit together along with the forward, mid and aft assemblies. Only thing left to do is glue it up and finish work and place launch lugs. Yes lugs, unless someone, anyone, can tell me where to put and how to apply buttons!!!!!!!!

As you can see in the second picture, I decided to place the baffle, a simple "s" type that I covered with JB Weld.

Note in the pictures also, the 12 inch ruler just to show the scale of this monstrosity! It's 90 inches tall!

I am particulary happy with the way the crossing fins, big rings and the smallish 5 inch ringtail all came together as well as the mid-section interposition tubes.



(I hope Jim finds the work satisfactory and acceptable)

[gary7]

I have posted a poll at the top of this thread. Would you use a 1/4 or 1/2 inch launch lug on this rocket?
Thanks.

[qquake2k]

That thing is massive! It's gonna look great! I didn't vote in your poll, because I wouldn't use launch lugs at all. I'd definitely use rail buttons.

[gary7]

That thing is massive! It's gonna look great! I didn't vote in your poll, because I wouldn't use launch lugs at all. I'd definitely use rail buttons.

Go ahead and vote, Quake. With the way everything is offset on this rocket, I cannot find a way to employ rail buttons unless I mounted them side-ways or believe me, rail buttons are exactly what I would be using!

And yes, it is big. But I cannot comment on how it might look when it is done. Thanks, Quake!

[qquake2k]

Could you mount the lower rail button on a standoff so it matches with the upper body tube? Dog House has standoffs for their rail buttons, but I don't know if they'd be long enough.

http://doghouse.blastzone.org/DogHou...l_Buttons.html

[qquake2k]

Actually, looking more closely at your photos, I don't see how you'd have enough clearance for a rail. If it's not too heavy, I'd go with 1/4" launch lugs, as long as the 1/4" rod is long enough. Are you going to be launching this on your own, or at a club launch?

[gary7]

Club launch.
The original Borealis has one lug mounted on one of the main fins, the other is on the forward tube of the aft assembly. Was planning the same arrangement. The forward lug will require a stand off. If you look closely at post #11, you can see the lug on the main fin in one of the pictures there. I had to rebuild that stock rocket because of a chute failure and at the time that photo was taken, I had not installed the forward lug yet.

I am currently planning to use a 1/4 inch lug, maybe. Still thinking things over.

[qquake2k]

I'm thinking 1/2" would be overkill. Too bad you couldn't use 3/8".

[terryg]

How heavy is it going to be? I would think 3/8" might be the size to use. I would be leary of rod whip with 1/4 inch.

[gary7]

I think it will be at a loaded weight of about +/- 6.5 pounds.
And, even tho one of the votes for the 1/4 inch rod is mine, I am leaning toward the 1/2 inch lug for the very reason you listed, rod whip with this 90 inch rocket.

I also discovered a way to use lugs without a stand off: going thru the upper main airframe with a sealed inner tube for the rod to slide thru; sealed to allow pressurization and ejection. If you look at some of the Sirius Saturn V builds for instance, you will see this method used. The best most recent is here. Look for post #90 to see the details. BTW, thank you Quaranta for a great build there!

[kelltym88]

Nice build.

I would use rail buttons, attach one to the bottom end of the top tube, and fashion a stand off at the top of one of the bottom rings. Make the stand off removable, as well as the rail button. Screw the stand off on, screw the rail button on, and then obviously remove for display. You could do the same for the top button to make sure you have enough clearance.

[qquake2k]

Nice build.

I would use rail buttons, attach one to the bottom end of the top tube, and fashion a stand off at the top of one of the bottom rings. Make the stand off removable, as well as the rail button. Screw the stand off on, screw the rail button on, and then obviously remove for display. You could do the same for the top button to make sure you have enough clearance.

I'd have to agree. For a 6.5lb rocket, I'd want the stiffness of a rail.

[cwbullet]

That is one of a kind. I have never seen anything like that.

[gary7]

So, I took a few weeks off. Had a nice vacation, spent some time with the family and now, back to work on this thing.

After all my talk of rail buttons and internal, thru the tube lugs etc, I finally decided to keep this rocket more true to the original. I did that by placing lugs just like Jim did. Look at the first pic and see the aft lug. It is a full 6 inch lug x 1/2 inch. Yes, I finally decided on the 1/2 inch size.

The 2nd pic shows the massive standoff with a shorter lug on the forward end of the aft assembly. I am hoping that is going to be enough.



We are expecting light winds this Saturday and I plan it's maiden flight then on either an AT H242 or H268. It will be flying naked, not enought time to paint it other than maybe some primer. Maybe.

[Daddyisabar]

Good luck. I have seen a stock kit rekitted on a D21. The draggy ring fins proved too much for the bond of the paper layers just above the glue joint, darn paper fails even with good glue. That joint would be my biggest concern. To be completely safe and totally assured I would reinforce on the outside exposed part with another tab/splint to increase the surface area of the bond. I would use a motor with lowest initial thrust possible, just enough to get her going given the weight. She is a natural low and slow flier anyway. But what do I know, I don't even use Rocsim and have only made one high power flight.

[gary7]

Good luck. Thank you. I have seen a stock kit rekitted on a D21. The draggy ring fins proved too much for the bond of the paper layers just above the glue joint, darn paper fails even with good glue. That joint would be my biggest concern. To be completely safe and totally assured I would reinforce on the outside exposed part with another tab/splint to increase the surface area of the bond. I would use a motor with lowest initial thrust possible, just enough to get her going given the weight. She is a natural low and slow flier anyway. But what do I know, I don't even use Rocsim and have only made one high power flight.

What do I know either? I have my NAR L2 and still cheat all I can with Rocksim and anything else I can use to help me with these kind of projects.

Re the reinforcement of the rings, I have already done that. It isn't much but I figured any amount would help. See the photo, there are two 1/4 inch dowels, one on each side of the joints of each of all three big rings. Got that idea from Tim Dixon. He used a similar idea with his Dual Deploy King Kraken (See entry #11 here). Thanks Tim.

To add even more ring and fin reinforcement, the main fins coming off the aft end of the rocket do have TTW construction from the outer 54 mm tube to the inner 38 mm motor mount tube.

[gary7]

As I have confessed before, I am not a finish kind of guy. This has to be the worst ever for me. Running epoxy. Splintered wood. Scuffed body tubes. You name it. The problem is, you never see all that stuff as it really is until you prime it. This rocket is a perfect example. Here it is primed. The fact that the photo is taken at dusk also helps to hide the bad stuff.

I have a color scheme that includes four different colors but will not take the time to paint it until after it's maiden voyage. Then, maybe I'll finish it. Perhaps the scuffs and epoxy runs can be used to my advantage to make it appear to have been battle tested in space? But as Quake once told me, no one is going to see all those imperfections out on the pad or in flight. So be it.



I am confident it will fly. I have an over sized cross fire chute from Top Flight Recovery. It's weight ~ 5.5#. Top Flight recommends the 36 inch cross fire for rockets up to 6# and the 48 inch for rockets up to 10#. I have one of each and will make my decision on the field.

I have chosen the Aerotech H268 for the first flight. Countdown, T-minus ~ 40 hours. Wish me luck!

[cwbullet]

Good idea on using an oversized chute. What type of buttons or guides did you use?

[gary7]

What type of buttons or guides did you use?

See #48

[gary7]

Now, I wish I had painted it first. It was a very impressive flight.

Thanks again to my family and my friends at the CIA whose encouragement helped me accomplish this really stressful but satisfying goal.
Thanks again to Jim Flis who "ok'd" the project.
Thanks to Chris Deem of the CIA for the photos!

[gary7]

The satisfied "pilot".

[qquake2k]

Looks like your launch lugs worked. Awesome flight!

[gdjsky01]

Paint paint!!!

Awesome work. Truly. Congrats!


- Jeff

[DRAGON64]

Very nice upscale, you do really great work. The flight picture sequence is an excellent touch to a great build.

[gary7]

Very nice upscale, you do really great work. The flight picture sequence is an excellent touch to a great build.

Thank you very much for you kind words.

[kelltym88]

That was awesome!