TLP Indigo Build

Over four hundred people fed, done and done.

I'm almost ready to scrap this fin, as it is hard to deal with that CA and filler patch on that small gouge that happened during sanding so long ago. It's much harder than the surrounding balsa, and I made a couple other stupid errors because I was lazy. Now is not the time to be lazy. I've turned to my old friend, dope. I love the smell, it reminds me of my dad building a silkspan and balsa plane almost 45 years ago. It will add a little bit of strength to those shallow bevels, very little weight, and sands like nothing is there.

I painted it onto the sanded parts of the front bevel, and will apply it to the rear bevel as well. No pictures because you really can't see it. It is not easy making nice bevels in balsa, but with this rocket and the large forward fins, I just didn't think using anything else would be possible without adding more nose weight. The Guinea Pig fin is teaching me a lot anyway for the future. I'm in no hurry after all, the soonest I would possibly fly her would be September. I have plans to go to the WOOSH launch on the 8th and 9th. Do they allow E-F engines then if any WOOSH members are still following this?

Still here, just not fully awake yet... You'll be fine to put any motor you can fit up the pipe at the Bong launches, finding your bird tends to be the difficult part out there.

Thanks, chadrog, I knew I could count on you.

No problem. Are you planning to come both days in September? There's nice camping at Bong as well. Any other questions you might have, we're happy to help. Build looks great, by the way.

Thanks, man. I'm going to take a little vacation then is the plan. Take off Friday-Monday, and I was wondering about camping there. I like camping. It's a good four hour drive, and I don't like to rush things on a vacation. What fun is that?

If you're thinking of camping at Bong, you should reserve as soon as possible- they fill up fast.

I didn't feel like working on fins tonight, so I worked on the body tube. I ran some CA along the body tube joint, and made sure I hit the damage I made with the pliers. I pressed down on the damage with wax paper and my fingers.

I sanded that down with a 220 popsandicle, sandpaper on the concave side and covering only about an inch of the tip.

I applied filler to that area, and the rest of the body tube I hadn't hit earlier. I'm waiting for it to dry now, so I thought I'd post this.

I made another popsandlicle,

a narrow strip of 220 glued to the edge of a stick. I used that to sand along the joint in the tubes, that worked pretty sweet until I got through the CA and started to rough up the cardboard. I then applied a line of dope along the joint, and continued sanding. That worked pretty sweet, too, but I had to be careful.

I sanded the entire body tube with 400 grit cut into about 2-3" squares backed by my hand, and replaced often as they got clogged. The front body tube was easier using one coat, paying attention to the grooves by dabbing the filler in. There are many minor wavers in the tubes, so I felt filler was needed everywhere. It's almost all sanded off really, the pliers damage is a non-event now.

I need a little more filler on the joint, and a little more sanding elsewhere, but the BT is almost ready for primer. Except for all the fins, the conduits, the launch lugs, and a few details I'm going to add. The new popsandicle will come in handy for roughing up the tubes for the fins and stuff to get glued on to.

I applied one more batch of filler to the BT joint,

and the tail cone joint. I lied, I also put some on the tail cone as I felt a couple flat spots, even though I said I was done with it.

I sanded the BT joint with a fresh piece of 400 on a rubber block. I sanded in all directions with a light touch, especially in a circular motion. I then ran a coat of dope along the seam, as I was hitting raw cardboard again.

I sanded some more, and the joint just needs a little more work yet.

I sanded the tail cone and joint, in a similar fashion to the BT joint. It's almost all to the point where I am satisfied.

That boat tail joint can be a real bugger ,no doubt about that !! Looking good though ,and glad to see you`re not rushing things ,cause the devil`s in the details !!

Nice work and a great build post.....the kind i love ,nice and long and plenty of detail .

Cheers

Paul T

sodmeister said:

That boat tail joint can be a real bugger ,no doubt about that !! Looking good though ,and glad to see you`re not rushing things ,cause the devil`s in the details !!

Nice work and a great build post.....the kind i love ,nice and long and plenty of detail .

Cheers

Paul T

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Yes, good build thread. Keep it up!

Thanks guys, I appreciate that. I strive for the perfection you both present in your models.

I sanded the BT joint a bit more with a 400 block, and then switched to a square like before held in my hand. I then applied some dope as the cardboard was fuzzing up again.

While I was at it, I put some dope on the filler left on the tail cone and joint after the previous sanding.

The dope thing really works nice. I have no fear of sanding away cardboard on the BT joint, as there is a coupler behind it. This joint is almost finished. The front body tube seemed to be slightly bigger than the rear one according to fit of the coupler and where sanding is needed.

I sanded the rear area. My fingers tell me the cone is done. I don't dare sand anymore on the joint to the BT for fear of going through the shroud, so more feathering will be needed on the BT with filler.

It's coming along nicely. I need to get some more sandpaper, I'll pick up some 320 as well as this would have sped up some of this. I think I'll look for some thin sheet metal for my jig while I'm at it, I think it will help for precision over aluminum. But that will be tomorrow, and I can still apply the filler to the rear tonight.

Doggonewild said:

Thanks guys, I appreciate that. I strive for the perfection you both present in your models.

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Yep great thread!

Y'all are too OCD for me. Gimee 5 meters... stand 5 meters away... mine'll look great! :grin::eyeroll:

Thanks much, Jeff. My thread might be a little scatter-brained for my taste. I have been trying every trick in my book (and many other people's books) to solve these problems. This forum has been a lifesaver. The last time I completely finished a rocket, including paint, was 1997 and had never heard of filling spirals, etc. Not that they looked bad back then, but I feel I can do better with today's technology. Elmers Wood Filler sure beats 7 coats of balsa fillercoat dope.

I didn't have a chance to go to the store(s) today, but I can get by with what I have to do a little work tonight.

Here's the filler I put on last night. I started with thin on a large area, and as the sponge sucked up water, I progressed towards the joint with thicker stuff. I tried to keep it off the tail cone. After it dried a bit I used my finger tip to LIGHTLY smooth it out. With some practice this will save me some work in the future I think.

Here's after sanding. At the top it looks good, but at the bottom you can see a slight dip in the filler on the BT. More filler is needed. I can't stop until it is finished.

The BT joint after sanding. I need to just put a thin coat of filler on a wide area and it will be finished, after sanding again. (I've said that before.)

Doggonewild said:

Here's the filler I put on last night. I started with thin on a large area, and as the sponge sucked up water, I progressed towards the joint with thicker stuff. I tried to keep it off the tail cone. After it dried a bit I used my finger tip to LIGHTLY smooth it out. With some practice this will save me some work in the future I think.

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Some tools have good uses when applying Elmers Carpenter Wood Filler, not many. Spatulas for clay sculpting can be considerd good tools. I've learned my fingers are the best tools for shaping, spreading and feathering out the filler.

Keeping a damp hand towel at hand to wipe your fingers off on is highly recommended. Rinse out as needed. The filler will quickly dry out on your finger tips. The dried up filler on your finger tips will scratch up the the smooth surface of the still soft filler you just laid down,

So... smooth a bit, wipe finger(s). Repeat as needed.

The main ingredient in the filler is pulverized limestone. Unless touching rocks makes you sick, there shouldn't be any problem using fingers as an applicator. :grin:

bradycros said:

Unless touching rocks makes you sick, there shouldn't be any problem using fingers as an applicator. :grin:

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There's some good jokes in that statement... best left for a different forum I suspect! :lol:

bradycros said:

Some tools have good uses when applying Elmers Carpenter Wood Filler, not many. Spatulas for clay sculpting can be considerd good tools. I've learned my fingers are the best tools for shaping, spreading and feathering out the filler.

Keeping a damp hand towel at hand to wipe your fingers off on is highly recommended. Rinse out as needed. The filler will quickly dry out on your finger tips. The dried up filler on your finger tips will scratch up the the smooth surface of the still soft filler you just laid down,

So... smooth a bit, wipe finger(s). Repeat as needed.

The main ingredient in the filler is pulverized limestone. Unless touching rocks makes you sick, there shouldn't be any problem using fingers as an applicator. :grin:

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Thanks, that's good to know. I'll have to do some more experimenting. I have some spatulas for oil painting around here someplace. I have too many boxes of crap to go through when I need something I haven't used for many years.

I was wondering what that stuff was made of. It must have some kind of latex binder I'm thinking.

Last night I thought, "Why not put some water in my tub of filler, as it is a pain in the butt right now." It was crumbly and semi-hard. I squished it all down with a popsicle stick, poured some water into it evenly, put the cover on it, and let it sit until tonight.

I mixed some up in my prefered container, the bottom of a beer can. Much easier and no more chunks.

I painted some on the coupler and rear area. Yes, the tail cone too. I started smoothing it with my finger, but some spots were already too thick. I decided to dip my finger in some water, and started smoothing it out. Light touch and a circular motion worked very nice, at least it seems so until I sand tomorrow. Before sanding pictures.

I sanded the filler areas with 400 grit held in my hand, in mostly a circular motion. I also hit the BT seam with a 400 popsandicle. Then I hit the rest of the BT, and it is 95% done. After sanding pictures.



There's just a couple low spots on the BT forward of the tail cone that needed filler, which I applied, and a little fuzziness on the BT joint which was hardened with dope. I'm at the limits of my skills, and after one more light sanding, I'm at the mercy of the primer. My fingers tell me it will look pretty good.

Very busy work week coming up, I'm not sure how much I will get done in the near future. I did pick up some sandpaper, and some balsa I'll need for the foward fins. I'll be redoing that one fin which will leave me short on the kit provided balsa. I still need to get some sheet metal.

Doggonewild said:

I sanded the filler areas with 400 grit held in my hand, in mostly a circular motion. I also hit the BT seam with a 400 popsandicle. Then I hit the rest of the BT, and it is 95% done.

There's just a couple low spots on the BT forward of the tail cone that needed filler, which I applied, and a little fuzziness on the BT joint which was hardened with dope. I'm at the limits of my skills, and after one more light sanding, I'm at the mercy of the primer. My fingers tell me it will look pretty good.

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Looks like you've done an excellent job of taking sand paper on a stick to its operational limits. Time to yeild to evolution and move up to sand paper on a piece of body tube. You'll find these to be worth their weight in gold when they produce the smooth surface you want on the tail cone and body tube.

The small and skinny ones are made from thin walled body tube which allows them to flex. The larger ones are much more stout and really grinds the filler into submission. Use the grit(s) of sand paper you feel comfortable using

I really can't be 100% sure without holding your BT & TC in my hands and exsamining it, but my experianced eye knows that as the high spots are sanded they turn a lighter shade of sandy brown. The surrounding low spots reveal themselves by staying the original color of the filler.

You can put your new found filler application technique to good use here. Place a small dab of filler on your finger tip, use a circular motion to rub in and feather out the filler in all the low spots. Lightly sand with the sand paper on a piece of body tube. Repeat until satisfied and surface is ready for primer. Only small imperfections should show after the 1st coat of primer is sanded. Fill'em, sand & reprimer.

While using dope to stiffen up parts of the exposed BT & TC is a good idea, paper BT & TC's with thin CA soaked into them really stand up to sanding while smoothing out the filler. CA can be sanded to a glass like finish. Or sanded right off, be careful with that! :grin:

Thanks for your advice, I will apply it. I don't have any BT-80's I'm willing to cut up, but I have noticed that an aluminum can is 2.75", which is pretty close. It might be coaxed into service. I've tried the CA route for finishing, I like dope better as it doesn't get harder than the surrounding materials it isn't on. I'm also still trying to keep it light back there as well. CA is definately a necessity on the nose cone I think though, to make the filler stay on the plastic. I already applied one coat of CA to the tail cone so it's strong, yet flexible and spring-like so it won't dent. It's smooth, the dope maybe is altering the colors from what you are used to seeing. It does tend to make things darker.

This is an awful lot of detail in which to go for a rocket which must come back to Earth.

I'd be kind of afraid to fly it!

Well, I'm shooting for greatness! I don't think she will have a problem coming down, she should be pretty light and strong. Of course, I won't know that until tested. Everyone that cares will know when the time comes, I hope it all goes well.

The worst of my work week is over, we had a long day of catering a fundraiser for a certain governor. I'll be back at it tomorrow with trying to build a sanding block out of a .5 liter Bitburger can.

I have to apologize to bradycros, the tail cone area is not all the way smooth as your keen eye saw, after feeling her up. (Get your minds out of the gutter!) She will be or I will die trying. I think I was thinking not to do final sanding until after I had the body tube part of the joint level and smooth, and do it all at the same time. There's filler on the low spots, and she is waiting for me...

Doggonewild said:

Well, I'm shooting for greatness!

I have to apologize to bradycros, the tail cone area is not all the way smooth as your keen eye saw, after feeling her up.

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Well... Now I'll have to order Spaceman Spiff to stop targeting you.

Whew, I'm glad Spaceman Spiff is off my case. I'm pretty sure I saw Hobbes hiding behind a tree as well on my way home from work, waiting to rip my throat out.

I made a sanding block from a can, and used Duco Cement to glue 320 grit onto it. Duco is good stuff, like the Ambroid of old. Maybe they still make it, I don't know. I'm liking 320 over 400 much better.


It worked well mostly, on the tail cone it was easy to curl the aluminum around it. It needs some handles perhaps, and I can glue on another piece of aluminum to stiffen it up if I need to. I saw the low spots in the tail area after several quick sandings and wipes with rubbing alcohol. I used a 220 popsandicle to pay close attention to the fin slots also as there were spots that were raised slightly from the BT. I then applied filler as suggested by bradycros.

I sanded the BT seam, and I brushed on a thin coat of filler over a wide area after sanding again. I think I'm on the right track now. Patience, patience, patience, is my mantra. My camera is recharging again, more pictures tomorrow.

So are you gonna show your painting method on the logo rocket, bradycros? That would help me and I'm sure others out.

Doggonewild said:

Whew, I'm glad Spaceman Spiff is off my case. I'm pretty sure I saw Hobbes hiding behind a tree as well on my way home from work, waiting to rip my throat out.

So are you gonna show your painting method on the logo rocket, bradycros? That would help me and I'm sure others out.

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I can't say for sure. So far, intrest in the logo rocket builts have been really sparse.

Here's a picture of the can block after cleaning with some rubbing alcohol and paper towel. It's not done yet.

I sanded the tail area. Here's the worst spot.

I think my problem using free-hand was I was sanding everything smooth. Now I can see the low spots. Crappy eyesight, and callouses on every fingertip. Now I know better. I think I could do this lickety-split now.

BT joint sanded, it is soooo close. Fuzziness again on cardboard,

and dope applied.

I use super thin CA to soak into the body tube where those damn fuzzies appear ,let solidify and sand with 320.

What kind of dope are you using ?

Cheers

Paul T

It's Aero Gloss gloss clear dope. I know Hobbylinc has it, but it doesn't seem to be as common as it used to be. I got mine at a now defunct hobby shop here in town about 15 years ago.

I have to work early tomorrow, so I don't know if I'll get anything done on the rocket tonight.