TLP Indigo Build

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launching with us would be nice...be warned our vendor for hpr launches* is the wildman himself...lets just say he is a good salesman :).
rex
*course you're welcome at the low and mpr launches too, have you looked at our website for launch info?
 
Just a quick one of the home-made ring. I cut a little too much in one spot, a little Titebond fixed it. I marked it with a pen while I was fine sanding so I could find it quick.
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I figured I better mark the exhaust tube now for the guts of the TTW system, before I did something stupid like glue something on. I have an Estes tube marking guide set, or most of it, but the exhaust tube is a hair over two inches. It just doesn't fit. I did it the old fashioned way, with a paper template. I was VERY careful making sure all the edges of the paper were square, and my measurements were true. I took a 2" wide paper, and cut it off at the circumference, 163 mm. since there's 4 fins, just a hair less than 41 mm for each mark. Again I used a very sharp pencil to make accurate marks. It's very hard to make accurate marks with a dull pencil. I taped the template to the tube to make sure it didn't move, and marked the tube on both ends of the template. I then used the Estes straight edge marking thing to draw the lines on.
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I have a lot of respect for those that do these build threads now after doing it for a few days.

One last picture of the night. The exhaust tube, tail cone, kit centering ring and mine underneath all dry fitted together. I can shake it around and nothing falls off. I'm happy so far.
 

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launching with us would be nice...be warned our vendor for hpr launches* is the wildman himself...lets just say he is a good salesman :).
rex
*course you're welcome at the low and mpr launches too, have you looked at our website for launch info?

I'd love to see some HPR, but I myself don't go bigger than what I'm doing here right now. I'm not sure I have your site bookmarked, it sure wouldn't hurt if you posted a link. I'll see what I can do to get down there. Thanks, man.
 
The way it sounds, that's about what I'm doing. I found some good cardboard and pictures coming soon. (Like anyone is reading this this time of night.) I need to get down and launch with you guys sometime this year.

I'm up. End of May is our next launch, come on down!
 
I'd love to see some HPR, but I myself don't go bigger than what I'm doing here right now. I'm not sure I have your site bookmarked, it sure wouldn't hurt if you posted a link. I'll see what I can do to get down there. Thanks, man.

Link to WOOSH website in my signature.
 
Aight, thanks. I don't go to work until 2PM most of the time, so I'm reaching the end of my day. I've done night shifts in the past, it is kind of wierd. I didn't mind it though, I'm a night owl anyway.
 
It sure ain't as easy as it might seem to get good ideas across or a 'step by step' discription going.

That's for sure. It doesn't help either when you type with two fingers.:) At least I have the hang of Photorazor for the most part now.
 
Ok, I've been back at it. From the lines I drew last night on the exhaust tube, I extended the lines out 1/16" on either side.
m_003.jpg
I'm deviating from the instructions now as far as the order of things, to install parts for the TTW fins. The engine mount is going in first. It took quite a bit of sanding to get the centering rings to fit, it's a much tougher material than the cardboard I was working with last night. I put it in it's place inside the exhaust tube, and made lines around the rings to help me place the Titebond.
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I then put the mount halfway inside the tube,
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and used a popsicle stick to run a line of glue on the line I drew earlier inside. I then flipped the tube around and applied glue to the other line. I worked as fast as I could, and then the exciting part, sliding an engine mount into place with wood glue. I used my trusty popsicle stick with a mark at 1.5" to help with that. It grabbed for a second in the wrong place but a little brute force got it right. I ran my finger around the glue I could reach and made a fillet out of it.
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I glued this ring on next, because I need it to hold everything straight when I dry fit into the MBT. I just want to make sure everything fits well before gluing, but I think so far, so good.
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I can't do much else until that glue dries, so I'm gonna think about the wealth of information this picture provides.
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By zooming in a little on that picture on my hard drive, I can see pretty good details of the fin shapes. I think my jig will be getting some use soon. I was under the impression from what I read that only the front fins were steerable, but it looks like they all might be by the brackets in the middle of all the fins. Is it illegal to put long pointy things on the front of your rockets? I'm assuming that rod on the nose cone is a stand-off for the warhead. Also, the sensors on the tips of the rear fins are more aerodynamic than the kit says to shape them, which is to just round the ends off.
 
Just wanna say, as person whose been doin' a few build threads, yes: They do take time and effort. Actually I enjoy doing them simply because it's like having people over to the shop. They get some ideas, I get some ideas, vendors get some feedback and exposure. Win win most of the time.

Also I think we are a fairly spread out community, so we like sharing our accomplishments with like minded nutters like me and you. :)

I've said it in the past, and I'll say it again, "I appreciate the time you take to post photos and text". They ARE useful. Corny as it sounds, it's a away of paying forward to the people coming behind you.

Thanks for the great build thread! :D
:cheers:
 
My first step was to do a full scale drawing of the rear, so I could visualize what's going on back there. I'm going to do a TTW construction, as light as I think I can get away with. The fins don't have much of a contact point, but with some fin tabs glued to the exhaust tube with some balsa bracing, I'm hoping all will be well.

That's all for today folks.

Just be careful not to make it tail heavy. A real possibility with those forward fins.
 
Just wanna say, as person whose been doin' a few build threads, yes: They do take time and effort. Actually I enjoy doing them simply because it's like having people over to the shop. They get some ideas, I get some ideas, vendors get some feedback and exposure. Win win most of the time.

Also I think we are a fairly spread out community, so we like sharing our accomplishments with like minded nutters like me and you. :)

I've said it in the past, and I'll say it again, "I appreciate the time you take to post photos and text". They ARE useful. Corny as it sounds, it's a away of paying forward to the people coming behind you.

Thanks for the great build thread! :D
:cheers:

Thanks, I appreciate that and glad you are enjoying it. Although it is more work, I am enjoying it. As an added bonus, I just plain think I am doing a better job, at least so far as double checking everything and thinking things through. I don't want to look like a fool, it probably all boils down to.:)
 
Just be careful not to make it tail heavy. A real possibility with those forward fins.

I am a little worried about that. So far I'm adding .8 grams, and will be adding 8 balsa sticks in the future. I am using no epoxy, at least in the tail. I'll be shaping the dowels on the ends of the fins to that one picture, so that will remove a little weight. I'll also be tapering the fins, so that will remove some weight. I'm also thinking of drilling a hole down the center of the dowels, but I don't have a drill press. I could always buy a dowel and drill the holes by hand, just throw out the mistakes. I'm a big believer in building light, and I strive to make things just strong enough.
 
Since that ring is all dry, I test fitted everything on. It all fit nicely.
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I took the MBT off, and made sure everything was aligned. I then drew a line along the ring, so I knew where to glue it on.
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I glued the bugger on.
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After it was dry enough, I added a very small fillet to the side of the ring facing the tail cone. I made this one with a popsicle stick, mostly to squish glue underneath any gaps from my initial glue job. I want this one small as I still need to glue my home-made ring to this area.
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The other side, I put a more robust fillet.
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Lookin good so far. Makes me want to dig out another TLP kit of my own. I still need to fly the first few but who says I can't work on one while I wait. Posts and threads like these sure help.

-Z
 
Lookin good so far. Makes me want to dig out another TLP kit of my own. I still need to fly the first few but who says I can't work on one while I wait. Posts and threads like these sure help.

-Z

Ahh, it's my picture savior. Thank you for the compliment. They are a fun and challenging build, that's for sure. I've barely scratched the surface yet on this one, really.
 
Although the picture doesn't show it well because of perspective issues, the rings match up exactly to my drawing, which makes me very happy.
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Now I can finally take a measurement for the fin supports. Looks like 2 3/8". I actually used 62mm, as I prefer the metric system.
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I made all the cuts a little bigger than I needed as usual, and then I sand to fit.
I used a #11 to cut a long strip in 1/8" balsa, and used an X-acto razor saw to cut the pieces apart against the grain.
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I taped all the pieces together with masking tape and sanded them down on my block. I still had to sand them down a little individually to make them all fit right.
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All the pieces dry fitted in their places. They are pretty big still width-wise, but I will be sanding them down from both sides still and I wanted to be safe instead of sorry.
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I weighed all the pieces, and they come in at 3.2 grams. About 25% will come off yet, so that's not too bad. By making everything fit tight so I can use less glue, I think I may be OK in the rear.

That's it for tonight.
 
I've been sorting out how to do the TTW braces. I thought about using a ratchet clamp to hold everything together when I sand, with a fin-width piece of balsa to space things out properly.
m_2013.jpg
That didn't grip enough and kept shifting too much. Then, I remembered I have the best clamp in the world in my possession. This.
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I clamped down hard with that clamp, and sanded at the tail of the exhaust tube covered in 220 grit sandpaper the surfaces that will glue onto that tube. That wasn't long enough, so I had to turn things around to sand the other side. In retrospect, I probably would have taken the rough-cut balsa pieces which dimensions I could have gotten from my drawing, and done this before I glued the centering rings on. I didn't completely trust my drawing though until I saw the end results. Silly me. It all worked out though, and have conform-fitting balsa pieces. It's hard to see in the picture though, it's pretty subtle.
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Which hippies? Tell me who they are, I'll take care of them.;)
 
Silly me. It all worked out though, and have conform-fitting balsa pieces. It's hard to see in the picture though, it's pretty subtle.
View attachment 79577

Does your camera have a Macro setting? It is used for tight close ups to show small details. It looks like a small flower on the function button. It also shows up on the display screen as the same small flower when selected.

Try it, you'll like it.
 
Does your camera have a Macro setting? It is used for tight close ups to show small details. It looks like a small flower on the function button. It also shows up on the display screen as the same small flower when selected.

Try it, you'll like it.

I dug out the instruction book for the camera, it has all sorts of settings I've never tried. I'll mess with it when I get home from work tonight. Thanks for the tip.
 
I used a pen to darken a few areas so I could see down in there when I glued the braces on.
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I put a thin coat of Titebond (hence refered to as glue unless otherwise stated) to where everything will glue on. I also applied a thin coat to the balsa braces where they will glue on. I let it dry.
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I cut down my middle fin stand-in spacers to a shorter length so I can see my pen marks down inside. I then used a popsicle stick to apply glue to the area where the braces will meet up with the tube and the centering rings. That paint brush I used for the tail cone would probably have been easier, but I'm a creature of habit and have always used a piece of wood to apply glue. I didn't think of that until the end of gluing. Just run some water on the brush afterwards and the glue comes right off of it. I then used my hand as a clamp again, with the spacers raised up a bit so they wouldn't get glued to anything, and pressed everything into place, one fin assembly at a time. I eye'd everything up best I could and adjusted things to the pen marks I made in between the braces, and the other pencil marks I made where the tail cone will go. Besides for strength, I like the double glue method for the tackiness when you press things together. I could still move the pieces, but they don't move by themselves. I removed the spacers briefly to make sure they weren't glued in, and to run (you guessed it) a popsicle stick along the inside edges of the brace joints to make sure there wasn't any excess glue in there.
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A rear view, with the spacers sticking up a little. I won't know how this will work until I try to glue the fins in, I hope everything is straight enough or there will be a very big headache in my future.
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I took my 220 grit block and sanded the braces to match the ring. I sanded parallel to the braces until I got close, and then sanded the other way with the rings to finish it off. The whole unit slides smoothly into the main body tube. I thought about adding fillets, but I feel everything is strong enough already. There's no way this stuff will break before the fin is in splinters. Braces and glue came in at 2.5 grams added. The directions say, "Because of the reduced size of the root edges of the fins, a strong glue fillet is recommended at the juncture of the fin and body tube." If that means using epoxy, I would be curious to know how much that weighs. I don't see how that would help much anyway, every fin I've had break off in the last 40 years has been because of a delamination of the cardboard tube. If you are still reading this Rocketlady, how did you apply your rear fins, and how did they fare? This all might be overkill if your fins have stayed on over the years.
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One more picture from another direction of the assembly.
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I dry-fitted the assembly into the MBT again, I had a thought.
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It is very strong for it's purpose, and the tail cone really doesn't need to be strong as the fins will be splinters before any damage comes to it. I don't think I need that ring I made, as long as I can make a sandable joint between the cone and body tube. I might have to do some experiments. I have some Titebond molding and trim glue that I read makes nice fillets, and might be a good glue to attach the cone to the MBT. I have never used it though. Any advice on this?
 
I marked off the MBT with an Estes marking guide.
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I then noticed matching up my engine assembly to those marks, that I had a problem. One of the brace sets was off more than was acceptable to me, so I broke them out, whittled down most of the wood and glue left on the tube, and sanded the rest of the way. They were strong at least when breaking them.:)

I then made new braces, conformed them, etc. like in my former post. It looks better now. In retrospect I would just spot glue the braces, sand them down to fit in the MBT, and check alignment then with the MBT. I could easily break out any not in line and re-place them, and avoid a bunch of sanding inside which I can see in my future. I would also just mark the centering rings on the exhaust tube from the body tube marks, after gluing them on, and use those for a reference. Next time I think I may do a good job on one of these TLP missiles with a tail cone. I think including your mistakes in a build thread is a good thing, for those that come along later. (Paying it forward.) I have no pictures of all this, as I already have 5 for this post.

Now back to progress instead of fixing mistakes. I extended the marks for the fin placements. I need to get one of them there long aluminum angle thingies I've read so much about to extend these lines later for the forward fins.
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I modified my drawing a little with a pencil, to figure out the fin tab dimensions, as well as the fin slots. 4mm from the end, and 57mm for the tab is what I decided.
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I then added the width of the fin tabs, 1/16" on either side of my center line. I know, I'm switching back and forth between measurement systems, but the fins are 1/8" thick. I thought they were going to fix this problem 30 years ago.
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I then applied my drawing measurements for the location of the slots on the body tube.
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Fixing mistakes is part of the fun. If I never made mistakes, I'd only need one rocket, what fun would that be?:confused2:
 
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