Guillotine Fin Tool review

[tmacklin]

Tim has a nice website and some good information on it, but he lost my business a long long long time ago. I won't do business with him if even if its for shoe laces or a pack of gum, but hey that's me. Good luck on your endeavors.

I don't know what Tim did or didn't do in his dealings with you. I do know that he has treated me fairly. I also know that he charges a premium for his inventory of toys and I understand why. I also know that if I charged what others would charge me to make these devices, they would soon be out of the price range for the average consumer and they would go the way of the Rose Fin Jig.

Ted

[troj]

I also know that if I charged what others would charge me to make these devices, they would soon be out of the price range for the average consumer and they would go the way of the Rose Fin Jig.

Yep. Rocketry people tend to be cheap, and a lot of these devices take a lot of time and effort to make -- nowhere near paying what the labor should cost.

For me, I appreciate the fact that you're willing to offer the plans, and let those of us with the tools and know-how make our own. My thought is even if I don't get around to making one, it's not costing me much, and it's giving you extra compensation for your efforts.

I bet with some minor mods, it could also double as a jig for doing fin slots with a router!

-Kevin

[AfterBurners]

I agree I rather see Ted make more money. In fact Ted I might just buy some plans off you as well. You're good people!

[tmacklin]

Estes charges $53.99 for a package of three E9 or E12 engines. Hobbylinc charges $15.99 for the same items, a difference of $38/package. But if you buy 12-18 packages at a time, Estes will knock off $30/package. That still translates to $23.99/package and is still higher than what Hobbylinc charges. (I think Hobbylinc adds HAZMAT charges but I could be wrong, It happens.)

The point is, when you buy in bulk quantities the price goes down and shipping costs are a huge part of this. And when you make and ship multiples of anything, the price also goes down, allowing the retailer to pay overhead and, hopefully, generate a profit.

I am not inclined to bite the hand that feeds me.

[tmacklin]

I bet with some minor mods, it could also double as a jig for doing fin slots with a router!

-Kevin

I thought so too, but there are some inherent problems with the geometry of the Guillotine which create problems for the direct application of a router attachment. Additionally, the Guillotine is a relatively light weight device as it does not require the additional beef necessary to withstand the vibration of a router.

Tim Van Milligan suggested this very thing (a modification to the Guillotine for routing slots) and the result was the Rocket Slot Machine. I experimented with various ideas for an "add-on" to the Guillotine and just couldn't come up with a viable solution. However, the Rocket Slot Machine can be equipped with fin alignment rails and will do it all for the legions of high power fanatics. These babies weigh in at about 26 pounds each (unassembled) and don't come with the angles. La costa plenti!

[troj]

I thought so too, but there are some inherent problems with the geometry of the Guillotine which create problems for the direct application of a router attachment. Additionally, the Guillotine is a relatively light weight device as it does not require the additional beef necessary to withstand the vibration of a router.

Tim Van Milligan suggested this very thing (a modification to the Guillotine for routing slots) and the result was the Rocket Slot Machine. I experimented with various ideas for an "add-on" to the Guillotine and just couldn't come up with a viable solution. However, the Rocket Slot Machine can be equipped with fin alignment rails and will do it all for the legions of high power fanatics. These babies weigh in at about 26 pounds each (unassembled) and don't come with the angles. La costa plenti!

Interesting! I kinda wondered if the slotting jig was your handiwork, as well.

-Kevin

[tmacklin]

Interesting! I kinda wondered if the slotting jig was your handiwork, as well.

-Kevin

Yes, that's my contraption as well. I was building parts yesterday until the heat forced me back into the AC. It was 108 at DFW airport. This thing is intended for the serious rocketeer building (and crashing) serious rocket airframes. If you have to ask the price, you probably can't afford it.

[plano-doug]

I also know that he charges a premium for his inventory of toys and I understand why.

I remember meeting Tim at a NARCON many years ago. I complained to him that I thought his 10.5mm BP motors (now OOP) were rather pricey, but he made some comment about the actual cost being pretty high. After pondering it, I came away with one thought as regards entrepreneurialism, commerce and capitalism: if you can't start out making a profit, you won't ever make one. That is, if you can't sell units at low volume and reap a reasonable return on your efforts, you're not making/selling the right stuff. There has to be a profit margin from the git-go - you can't count on ramping up to future profitability - you'll never get there (most likely).

In this hobby alone, I've seen too many vendors get in with thin margins, hoping to grow their businesses into money making endeavors, only to quit after investing lots of time, effort and money, with little to show for it.

Frankly, when I realized how naive it was to think about starting out with thin or no margins and trying to grow the biz from there, it was an epiphany of sorts. Either sell something you can profit off of, or keep looking for something else to manufacture/sell. But if you're not making money on the front end, it's not gonna come to you later, either. That only happens for people who can spend millions and millions, and wait for years and years for markets to develop, and even then, plenty of those guys don't last, either.

So, if you're complaining about Tim's prices, or anyone else's prices, it's a good bet you don't really understand business!

Doug

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[troj]

Received my plans today, thanks, Ted! Very nicely done, I might add.

-Kevin

[tmacklin]

This is a "heads up" for anyone sending a money order.

In addition to the "pay to the order of" blank, there is also a blank for the "name of purchaser". Without that blank filled in by you, the recipient will encounter problems cashing it. I don't recall ever having to comply with such a requirement, but comply I did.

I think it's "The Golden Rule" again. HE WHO HAS THE GOLD MAKES THE RULES

[kenstarr]

Got my signed plans from Ted some time ago, can't wait to build the device this winter. Maybe I can find some improvements, maybe not. Maybe I'll be lucky to build it nicely. Either way, can't wait to get started.

[tmacklin]

Got my signed plans from Ted some time ago, can't wait to build the device this winter. Maybe I can find some improvements, maybe not. Maybe I'll be lucky to build it nicely. Either way, can't wait to get started.

Ken,

I think you will find that there is nothing magic about building this device. The key is to keep everything as perfectly centered as possible and the cuts as straight, parallel and smooth as possible. I suggest you obtain a sheet of foambord from your local Hobby Lobby or Michael's outlet and fabricate a mock-up using an Exacto knife, straight edge, push pins and Elmers glue. Obviously, this mock-up wouldn't have the durability needed for the actual tool, but it would give you a clear idea of how the thing works and be relatively inexpensive. And it would bolster your enthusiasm to proceed with the real thing.

Ted

[kenstarr]

Ken,

I think you will find that there is nothing magic about building this device. The key is to keep everything as perfectly centered as possible and the cuts as straight, parallel and smooth as possible. I suggest you obtain a sheet of foambord from your local Hobby Lobby or Michael's outlet and fabricate a mock-up using an Exacto knife, straight edge, push pins and Elmers glue. Obviously, this mock-up wouldn't have the durability needed for the actual tool, but it would give you a clear idea of how the thing works and be relatively inexpensive. And it would bolster your enthusiasm to proceed with the real thing.

Ted

Very good to know! Thanks.
Ken

[tmacklin]

In case you are interested, Apogee is now listing the upscaled version of the Guillotine on their site.

[cwbullet]

Looks very nice, Ted. Maybe after the deployment. I need a bigger shop.

[DM1975]

I need to get around to building mine from the plan set. I intend on using it for my Level 3 build.

[troj]

Enough.

-Kevin

[Pantherjon]

Thread closed so people can calm down a bit...