Priming balsa wood

I have two rocket's I'm trying to paint, but I'm having trouble on the balsa fins/nosecone. The primer seems to soak into the wood grain lines on the wood leaving deep grooves or pinholes in the surface.
Do I just keep layering the primer on untill it fills in? I'm about 3-4 layers thick so far. Also do you need to keep sanding between layers if the surface already feels smooth to the touch?

What ive found is that if you sand the fins with progressivly higher grit they smoot out pretty good.

I also found that elmers wood filler thinly spread on the fins then sanded makes them look great.

You might need two coats one way or the other, but loading up the paint will only get you so far.. The trick to a great finish is the prep work prior to putting any paint on your rocket.

Hope this helps..

Tom

Wow, that is a gorgeous finish. Taking ones time sure does make a difference.

<drool>

So smooth and glassy. Are you sure you didn't use Plasti-dip or something? :cool2:

Rusto rattle can.. Although this yellow seems diffrent than the other yellow I had used previous..

One coat on top of white and it covered.. I ended up doing 3 coats, its still "curing" and I cant wait to get my buffing wheel going.. Probably on friday..

Oh yeah.. it helps CONSIDERABLY to have a consistent temp when spraying paint..

1-Warm up the can in a bowl of water to warm up the propellent in the can.
2-Warm up the make shift spray booth courtesy of a monster heat lamps.....

SMOOOOOTHHNESSSSSSS... Ahhhhh...

Black is horrible. Shows every imperfection..

Notice the reflection of the CA bottle ? Unbuffed and only sprayed..

All with Rusto spray cans.

PREP WORK is Key !

darthgriffin said:

I have two rocket's I'm trying to paint, but I'm having trouble on the balsa fins/nosecone. The primer seems to soak into the wood grain lines on the wood leaving deep grooves or pinholes in the surface.
Do I just keep layering the primer on untill it fills in? I'm about 3-4 layers thick so far. Also do you need to keep sanding between layers if the surface already feels smooth to the touch?

Click to expand...

I'm one of those who do not use any form of Filler product perferring to stick with Cheapy grey auto primers to do the job. Since we will be sanding off nearly all the primer anyway it does a fine job filling both Body tube seams and wood grain. The trick is as others have mentioned in the preperation.
I generally sand and shape fins, transitions, nosecones and launch lugs to 320grit before the first primer coats are applied.

Then its' 3 heavy wet primer coats allowing each coat to tack for about 5 minutes between coats. Then allow whatever the label directions call for to complete the cure. Generally 3-5 days. After drying we sand the primers with DRY 120,240 and 360 sand paper. If we have a few Body seams or wood grain still showing. We'll repeat application of another 3 wet coats of primer. Rearly does it take more then that to completely fill all seam lines and balsa or basswood grain.

CPUTommy said:

Black is horrible. Shows every imperfection..

Notice the reflection of the CA bottle ? Unbuffed and only sprayed..

All with Rusto spray cans.

PREP WORK is Key !

Click to expand...

Tommy, is that sparkley blue finish one of those color shift cans? I've been wanting to try those, but not sure if they're worth the $15 per can. Did you apply it right over the black?

Yes. they are color shift paint...

If the can costs 25 bux each I still would have bought it.. Now after spraying it.. I would pay 35 bux..

I LOVE that paint..

You have to spray it ON TOP OF BLACK ...

Its weird.. When you spray it.. its as if your spraying clear coat.. Or just the sparkels..

I cant say enough about that paint. It covers very nice and I still have alot left for another build. Below are some pics. I bought 2 cans and Im liking the blue/purple more than the green/purple.. Below are pics of the cans, and the 3rd rocket that is smaller than the other two.. Its hard to get a pic of the shift in color and even these pics dont do justice to the paint. The last pic is of the blue/purple body tube INSIDE... Take it outside... and forhethabout itttt

That is some Truely Purdy Paint! Very, Very Nice.
Great job CPUTommy!

CPUTommy, to me, what really sets your extremely impressive paint jobs off is the incredible fillets that you have on the fins. What is your process/materials?

Thanks,

Stratos283

I have used Aerogloss balsa sealer on most of my builds with good results. The last few builds I have switched over to primer only and it also works great and is much faster. Here are the last builds I did with primer only.

Here are some more. Also I don't spend too much time and effort on my finishes. I sand the fins smooth before applying my primer coats. I sand most of the primer off and the last coat I just sand smooth. Then I apply my top coat and decals, no sanding or clear coat. The Xarconian Cruiser is the primer right before I apply the top coat.

The primer only method does not add much weight as you can the Xarconian flies just fine.

stratos283 said:

CPUTommy, to me, what really sets your extremely impressive paint jobs off is the incredible fillets that you have on the fins. What is your process/materials?

Thanks,

Stratos283

Click to expand...

Well.. First off, I cant take much credit. I never did fillets until I stumbled upon this forum, I usually just glued the balsa to the tube and most of the time never painted them.

After seeing the skills some of you guys have I thought id slow down and really take a stab at it.

1-I cut my own fins out of bass wood stock, I then sand them with my black and decker hand sander with 220. I mark the tube and pre position my fins, I make a batch of epoxy and set them each. *DO NOT USE TO MUCH EPOXY as this is a fatal error that takes a LONG time to fix down the road.. you want to use it as if it was glue (which it is)
2-Once the fins are SOLID (I usually wait an hour or so) I tape the fins and the tube with blue tape leaving where I want the fillets to be. *Leave tab ends on the tape so when you pull it off it will not stick to the other side of the fin. ( I usually tape off all the fillets first.
3-mix epoxy with a TOUCH of denatured alchol and lay it in the fillet, after a nice bead I use a popsicle stick and after another minute I tear off the tape.. I usually wait 10 mintues before doing the next fillet.
4-THE NEXT day, I will take 180 grit and sand down the fillet so its *semi* smooth. then I add Elmers wood filler and really REALLY lay it down.. THICK enough to cover the entire epoxy fillet. And I take 180 grit and rip it into strips and make a few passes, move the sandpaper to a fresh spot and make a few more passes.. and so on and so on until its where I want it to be. Dont be afraid to put the filler on ANY imperfection you see. Sand everything smooth !
5-Take the rocket OUTSIDE and with a pencil mark all the dimples, hickeys,hollidays pretty much everything you dont like about what you see. More Filler.. more sanding with 220 then 320 until you cant see the sand marks in anything.. Sometimes you have to lightly sand to make it blend it. The primer will fill in some of the lines you see but not the deep ones. The more time you take sanding the better the finish. (use the strip method)
6-Prime with white and take the rocket outside and repeat step 5
7-Sand EVERYTHING with 320 using the strip method.
8-Prime with white primer, then double check in the sun and if everything is looking good hit it with the paint.
9-Paint.. Uggh.. Lots of LIGHT coats.. if you think your spraying it to light... your probably not... Keep your distance and fog the rocket with the mist.. DONT PUT TO MUCH paint on it. Temp is also key with reguards to paint.. Painting can take a while so be prepared and every 10 minutes fogg the rocket again. I usually grab a beer, fog the whole rocket.. rotate the tube in front of the lights to set up the paint reaction.. then fogg it again, take a sip.. rotate.. etc.. imagine your spraying a layer of blankets, but with paint.. you want to spray thin sheets.

Key things
-Dont be afriad of the filler, its going to be sanded off of the areas that dont need it.
-Dont RUSH
-Dont look at the rocket under "indoor lights" as ive found that I can see much much more of the imperfections in natural sunlight
-The smallest dimple or rub mark from the sandpaper WILL show through into the final finish. Prep work is the ultimate KEY in getting a good FINISH...
-DO NOT TOUCH THE ROCKET AFTER PRIMING OR PAINTING!!! Even though it looks and feels dry, your fingers or anything else can and WILL imprint into the soft paint. Wait at LEAST a day even thought like my self I cant wait to touch it and fondle it..

Hope that helps.. And number one and most importantly... Take your time with the prep work.. the results will be amazing as your patience increases..

Hoped that helped. oh yeah.. one more think.. DONT RUSH !!!!

Tom

This pic is where Id like to get to in my fillet goal. I seen this and said to myself.. some day..some day...

CPUTommy said:

7-Sand EVERYTHING with 320 using the strip method.
...

Click to expand...

What is the "strip" method?

Strictly in the context of sanding rockets...

MountainRocketeer said:

What is the "strip" method?

Strictly in the context of sanding rockets...

Click to expand...

I rip the paper into 2 inch strips, and use my hands/fingers to start at one end of the sandpaper, sand... Move the paper a bit.. sand.. move the paper a bit more.. sand.. Alwalys use "fresh" grit paper..

After three passes look at the paper and see if your using it "up" and keep going. Its more of moving the paper so that its awalys taking off the same amout of material.. Depending on your pressure the time between moving the paper will vary but overall the theroy is the same.

You dont need a whole sheet to sand a rivet.. just a few strips...

Tom

CPUTommy said:

Rusto rattle can.. Although this yellow seems diffrent than the other yellow I had used previous..

One coat on top of white and it covered.. I ended up doing 3 coats, its still "curing" and I cant wait to get my buffing wheel going.. Probably on friday..

Oh yeah.. it helps CONSIDERABLY to have a consistent temp when spraying paint..

1-Warm up the can in a bowl of water to warm up the propellent in the can.
2-Warm up the make shift spray booth courtesy of a monster heat lamps.....

SMOOOOOTHHNESSSSSSS... Ahhhhh...

Click to expand...

Is that hose in your spray booth connected to a wet vac or something else? If it is a wet vac how do you keep it from blowing up? The paint fumes are flammable right. Just wondering. I want to build one and am looking for ideas. Thanks Chief

Its a Rigid shop vac....The exhause was sent under the garage door and while spraying yellow you could see it comming out of the other end.. It seemed to work pretty good.. I had the vac moved far enough away so that if it DID blow I wouldnt have been impacted..

I have another fan extraction system that im holding off from making due to finding a better booth..(looking for an old stand up shower)

What im using is a card board dishwasher box, with a dowel with a hole drilled in the top and I put a nail through the hold to keep it elevated. That way I can rotate the tube with out touching it. Just spin the dowel.. It also helps to have it X amout away from the opening of the box so that you dont lay the paint on to heavy.. When im done with my coat, I wheel the heat lamp into place to cook the paint, and every minute or two I spin the dowel so the tube warms up..

The overspray will build up on the bottom of the box so be careful not to touch the wet paint to the bottom of the box or BAD things WILL happen... Try painting a red rocket and have the white primer jump all over the paint.. Uggh.. Not a pretty sight...

If the tube starts smoking.. the heat lamp is probably to close to the tube..

I can provide pics to better explain if your interested...

It was my first attempt at a makeshift spray booth that I can put in my truck and take to work if the weather is nice enough..

Have spray booth.. will travel...

LOL

Tom

Apply a filler and sand the surface smooth. Then apply a sealer and sand again, mainly to remove the brush marks. The filler fills in the wood grain and the sealer seals it so that it won't suck up the paint. Use very fine grit sandpaper for this last step. Apply one coat of primer. Lightly sand it if necessary, and then apply one or two coats of the top coat (color coat). Simple, fast and doesn't require a bunch of applications of various products.

If you look closely at the second and third photos, you can see the photographer (me) reflected in the nose cones. All of the nose cones here are balsa, as are the fins in the rockets in the first photo. The fins in the third photo are thin aircraft plywood.

.

CPUTommy said:

... Prep work is the ultimate KEY in getting a good FINISH...

...

Tom

Click to expand...

Tom;

Very nice work indeed. I can only echo your point about surface prep. That's where a fine finish begins.

John

darthgriffin said:

I have two rocket's I'm trying to paint, but I'm having trouble on the balsa fins/nosecone. The primer seems to soak into the wood grain lines on the wood leaving deep grooves or pinholes in the surface.
Do I just keep layering the primer on untill it fills in? I'm about 3-4 layers thick so far. Also do you need to keep sanding between layers if the surface already feels smooth to the touch?

Click to expand...

What primer are you using? I use a filler primer and by 4 coats everything is filled. On my latest build I sprayed one coat and sanded back, then sprayed 3 more coats sanding back. There are occasions were I use a balsa filler or FNF to fill major imperfections to aid in a nice smooth paint job. I am a Aerogloss balsa sealer person but I will say the primer only is faster and easier. I have tried Aerogloss Filler with poor results and slow dry times. The balsa sealer is ready to sand in 30 to 60 min. Even with 3-5 coats of balsa sealer I still end up priming 2 to 3 times, so you can see why primer only is faster. Also the filler primer sands super easy after just one hour as long as it is not sprayed on to heavy.

SCIGS30 said:

What primer are you using? I use a filler primer and by 4 coats everything is filled. On my latest build I sprayed one coat and sanded back, then sprayed 3 more coats sanding back. There are occasions were I use a balsa filler or FNF to fill major imperfections to aid in a nice smooth paint job. I am a Aerogloss balsa sealer person but I will say the primer only is faster and easier. I have tried Aerogloss Filler with poor results and slow dry times. The balsa sealer is ready to sand in 30 to 60 min. Even with 3-5 coats of balsa sealer I still end up priming 2 to 3 times, so you can see why primer only is faster. Also the filler primer sands super easy after just one hour as long as it is not sprayed on to heavy.

Click to expand...

SCIGS:
I'm using The Cheapest Grey Auto primer I can find. currently Wal-mart brand. within 3-4 coats everything is filled as well. I firmly believe unless your paying for really "High build" primer using anything but cheap stuff is simply a waste of money.

I also keep a couple jars of now Midwest Balsa filler for special or REALLY KEEP balsa grain. but to be honest I haven't opened one of those jars in the last 4 or 5 years. Aerogloss or now Midwest Balsa Sealer contains far less solids then the filler and as such is only a Sealer. Using a single coat of sealer can help as a barrier perventing additional coats of sealer or filler soaking in during subsequent coats. That said I generally just stay with a cheapy primer, first coat allowed to tack about 10 minutes then the following 2 or 3.

John Brohm said:

Tom;

Very nice work indeed. I can only echo your point about surface prep. That's where a fine finish begins.

John

Click to expand...

Absolutely and couldn't agree more... surface prep is 95% of how the eventual paint finish will look... the other 5% is actual application... you can ruin perfect prep work with a sloppy application (drips, runs, orange peel, blushing, etc) but NO amount of perfect application, perfect paint, or buffing/finishing work on the final coat can make up for inadequate or sloppy prep work...

Later! OL JR

Micromeister said:

SCIGS:
I'm using The Cheapest Grey Auto primer I can find. currently Wal-mart brand. within 3-4 coats everything is filled as well. I firmly believe unless your paying for really "High build" primer using anything but cheap stuff is simply a waste of money.

I also keep a couple jars of now Midwest Balsa filler for special or REALLY KEEP balsa grain. but to be honest I haven't opened one of those jars in the last 4 or 5 years. Aerogloss or now Midwest Balsa Sealer contains far less solids then the filler and as such is only a Sealer. Using a single coat of sealer can help as a barrier perventing additional coats of sealer or filler soaking in during subsequent coats. That said I generally just stay with a cheapy primer, first coat allowed to tack about 10 minutes then the following 2 or 3.

Click to expand...

Micro, You are right in the fact that the filler primer is 5 to 6 bucks a can compared to Wal Mart Primer. I normally get 3 rockets with one can of paint, so 2 to 3 bucks to spend on a build is not that bad. I don't know about the primer your Wal Mart sells, buy mine in California only sells Colorpalace .99 cent primer. This stuff is Enamel and takes 3 to 7 days to dry. There is no way I could sand it the same day. I am able to sand the filler primer in one hour.

SCIGS30 said:

Micro, You are right in the fact that the filler primer is 5 to 6 bucks a can compared to Wal Mart Primer. I normally get 3 rockets with one can of paint, so 2 to 3 bucks to spend on a build is not that bad. I don't know about the primer your Wal Mart sells, buy mine in California only sells Colorpalace .99 cent primer. This stuff is Enamel and takes 3 to 7 days to dry. There is no way I could sand it the same day. I am able to sand the filler primer in one hour.

Click to expand...

WOW! That's wild! I've used Walmart Colorplace 99 cent a can primer and it's TERRIFIC! Best primer and paint I've used to be honest! I've but three thick coats of primer on a rocket and sanded it late that evening or the next day! Can't imagine what would take it SO long to dry!??? That's wild! You must be in some radically different conditions than we are...

Course, I've done the same thing in Indiana, though admittedly it does take a little longer to dry, but then I'd kinda expect it to, since it's a cooler climate... nothing like the 3-7 days you've had though! WOW!

I'd use WM Colorplace exclusively but our stupid walmarts have quit carrying the primer! The red primer (which I liked because it seemed to be more "high build" though it wasn't advertised as such) went away about a year and a half ago, and six months to a year ago the gray primer went away as well. I picked up a half-dozen cans in Indiana where it still seems plentiful, though, over Christmas. I love the stuff!

I picked up some of the BIG cans of Rusto gray primer after I ran out of the WM stuff before I got the stuff at Christmas up there, though... the Rusto stuff seems pretty close to the same...

Later! OL JR

Walmart red high build primer? Oh heck no, I have never had anything like that at our Walmart. Trust me the stuff I buy from Walmart is basically grey enamel paint renamed primer. I have some in the Garage and will take a picture and post it. As far as weather, I live in So. California so I don't think that is it. Of couse California only allows certain spray paints to be sold in the state so that may be it. We are very green in California.

Yeap SCIGS;
I think that's the stuff, last dozen cans I got (last week) were .88 a can. Colorplace After the test runs with it a couple years ago, I haven't really looked at the cans other then to check the name and recoat time occasionally.

Works just great, depending on how thick I put it on it can be sandable in a couple hours, though I normally spray late in the evening letting them sit overnight before sanding the first 3-coat application. Now-a-days I haven't had to do a second 2 or 3 coat repeat as all the grain & bodyseam lines have been filled with the first round application.

If you can get 2 or 3 models out of a 12 or 14oz can that's not all that bad. I have to go to a Paint store for real High Build primers where they'll set you back 8 to 18 bucks depending on brand & manufacturer. For what we're doing with it...it's just not worth those kind of bucks.

I do like the rustoleum grey primer...again it's just against my nature to pay that much for dust I have to sweep up

Like you say tho...if we'er happy with our costs per finished model... that's what is important

John Brohm said:

Tom;

Very nice work indeed. I can only echo your point about surface prep. That's where a fine finish begins.

John

Click to expand...

Thats A SERIOUSLY Nice paint job !!!

WOW.. do I have a long way to go.. !!!

Very VERY nice..

Tom

Micro, Does you Colorpalace primer say recoat anytime?