Airbrushes?

[rockets4kids]

Just curious... how many people paint with airbrushes?

I had a crappy one as a kid, and I powered it with an old tire I pressurized with a hand pump. It wasn't the greatest for finish coats, but it worked just fine for primer.

I recently saw that some graffitti artists are using garden sprayers as portable pressure sources to drive airbrushes, and thought this might be the time to invest in an airbrush. I know that good airbrushes and good oilless compressors can be quite expensive, so I was thinking about getting an airbrush good enough for general coverage work and driving it with a $10 garden sprayer.

Any thoughts or suggestions here?

[GrossApproximator]

I really like the cheap Badger airbrush I have now, and I plan on getting a nicer double action brush soon. However, you certainly don't need an airbrush to paint rockets. I want a nice brush because, well, I just like airbrushing. And the airbrush will let me do some nice, fine detail work.

[foamy]

I've recommended this combination before:
Paasche H single action (HobbyLinc $44 starters kit)
Bottled Co2 w/regulator and pressure gauge—like scuba tank (no noise, as much pressure as you want, lasts a long time)
Buy airbrush cleaning tools

Refer to these threads:
http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=33700
http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=28556
http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=4335

[Marc_G]

+1 on the Paasche single action internal mix. I love mine. Gives a good coverage width for LPR or small MPR. It's not a pencil-thin coverage brush for fingernail painting like mentioned in the other thread.

See the above Terrence Quickstart thread. I started it and got so many helpful inputs. This forum and its members rock.

I like the bottled co2. Definitely check craigslist for good deals.

[rockets4kids]

Many thanks. The Paasche H + tank combo sounds like the way to go.

[rockets4kids]

Ok, went to order a Paasche H and quickly got confused about all the different variations. I think I've figured out what the differences are, but I'm not sure which to get...

1. Plastic vs. Aluminum handle. Any real differences here? I generally prefer metal over plastic (one of the reasons I like the Paasche H over the Badger 350) and one of the criticisms of the Paasche is that it is nose heavy. Does the Aluminum handle help any in bringing weight to the rear?

2. What is the practical difference between the H and the HS models with the swivel nut? What are the advantages and disadvantages of each?

3. The aircap, tip, and needle all seem to come in three different sizes (1, 3, and 5) but it is unclear whether the kits (H-SET, H-202S, HS-SET, HS-202S) include all of the parts for all three different sizes.

Amazon seems to have the best price on the kits -- $42 - $48 with free shipping from what appears to be the Paasche store -- does anyone know of a better deal?

Aside from a set of cleaning brushes, is there anything else I should order with the airbrush? The Paasche paint jars seem a bit on the expensive side, does anyone know a good place to pick up something compatible on the cheap? I'd like to grab perhaps a dozen.

[Marc_G]

I've found for rocketry purposes I usually use the metal cup instead of the bottles with the tubes in the top.

And for $5 at Hobby Lobby I got a set of ~20 plastic small containers with caps in various sizes to store mixed / reduced paints.

PS: I usually use the Paasche #5 color adjusting parts (needle/tip/cap) for bigger rockets and the #3 for smaller ones. Lower pressure on the #3 means less CO2 or air required to push the paint.

Marc

[rockets4kids]

Ok, so you store the mixed/reduced paints in generic containers, and then just pour what you need into the cup?

[Marc_G]

Ok, so you store the mixed/reduced paints in generic containers, and then just pour what you need into the cup?

Exactly! And I'm using water-based acrylics, so clean up is easy. Just rinse stuff out in the sink.

[rockets4kids]

Part of the reason that I wanted to get a cheap spray rig was that I wanted to experiment with acrylics. Personally, I have never been a fan of water-based paints, but acrylics are far more kid-friendly so I wanted to give them a shot. I didn't realize that people were already doing this with such great success!

When using acrylics with the Paasche H, do you need to disassemble the gun between colors, or can you get away with simply spraying a little soapy water through it?

Also, I have seen that some people use gesso as a non-toxic sealer/primer for acrylic paints, but have not seen any reports of how well this works compared to traditional lacquer sanding sealers. Any comments here? Also, can gesso be applied with an airbrush? I imagine this would be a definite no with an internal mix brush, but I imagine there would be a chance using an external mix brush with a large nozzle.

[Marc_G]

I have never been a fan of water-based paints, but acrylics are far more kid-friendly so I wanted to give them a shot.

It's true they are more kid friendly, but even with much lower organic content, personal protection is still recommended. You don't want to breathe the rainbow!

When using acrylics with the Paasche H, do you need to disassemble the gun between colors, or can you get away with simply spraying a little soapy water through it?

In between colors, I've found it's generally fine just to spray a bit of the cleaner (not just soapy water, the actual cleaner solution), then water, then a few drops of the reducer for the paint you are using, then you're good to go with the next color. Total time involved, 1-2 mins.

Also, I have seen that some people use gesso as a non-toxic sealer/primer for acrylic paints, but have not seen any reports of how well this works compared to traditional lacquer sanding sealers. Any comments here? Also, can gesso be applied with an airbrush? I imagine this would be a definite no with an internal mix brush, but I imagine there would be a chance using an external mix brush with a large nozzle.

I've no experience with Gesso, though I've seen it. When I use acrylics, I usually do this:

1. For balsa fins, I usually seal 'em with thin CA, then fill with either CWF or thinned bondo / 3M spot putty.
2. I have not found a complete solution to the lacquer-based auto filler primer (like Rustoleum High Build auto primer). Use of CWF and spot putty can be adequate substitutes.
3. Before hitting with a color coat, I use the Auto-Air sealer white (or thearetically sealer black, which I don't have yet). Makes for good adhesion of the paint.
4. For color coats I like the Wicked Colors line (hobby lobby!) or Auto Air (artist store). These are also available from TCP global which is a great online place for stuff like this.
5. For clears I have found Future (pledge with future shine, or whatever they call it now) is OK but MAY in some cases cause slight dissolving of the color coat. Liquitex makes a fine high gloss varnish (in the artist stuff aisle at hobby lobby) that goes one well and dries very glossy. Or I use Valspar lacquer clear (from Lowes etc.). Often put Future on top for a slick finish.

Does this help? Airbrushing is fun, the paints are mixable, and I've never had the horrible crinkling you can get with incompatible enamels!

Marc

[Peter Olivola]

Gesso is basically thickened titanium white acrylic. It's much too thick to use with an airbrush. OTOH, it sands easily into a very good primed finish when applied with a brush. Keep in mind, gesso is what artists use to prep canvas.

Also, I have seen that some people use gesso as a non-toxic sealer/primer for acrylic paints, but have not seen any reports of how well this works compared to traditional lacquer sanding sealers. Any comments here? Also, can gesso be applied with an airbrush? I imagine this would be a definite no with an internal mix brush, but I imagine there would be a chance using an external mix brush with a large nozzle.

[SteveF]

Gesso is basically thickened titanium white acrylic. It's much too thick to use with an airbrush. OTOH, it sands easily into a very good primed finish when applied with a brush. Keep in mind, gesso is what artists use to prep canvas.

thanks - I have been wondering for a while if gesso would work as a balsa filler but never get around to trying it

[rockets4kids]

Gesso is basically thickened titanium white acrylic. It's much too thick to use with an airbrush.

Is gesso much thicker than other paints normally applied with a brush? If not, I imagine it could be thinned down just like colors. Obviously a good filler/sealer is going to have a high solids loading, and I guess the question is whether this is too high even for the 0.5mm nozzle. Sounds like that might be the case.

Keep in mind, gesso is what artists use to prep canvas.

I have always known that, but I did learn straight away that gesso is also used to prime wood and paper surfaces as well, and that it can even be sanded between coats. I'm looking forward to giving it a shot!

[Peter Olivola]

One of the features of airbrushing is how little paint you use to get the desired result compared to other techniques. That's diametrically opposed to the balsa filler requirement. I find applying gesso with a brush and sanding between coats gets me where I want to be before apply color with the airbrush.

Is gesso much thicker than other paints normally applied with a brush? If not, I imagine it could be thinned down just like colors. Obviously a good filler/sealer is going to have a high solids loading, and I guess the question is whether this is too high even for the 0.5mm nozzle. Sounds like that might be the case.

[skybuster]

Are airburshes just for small details, as I had been told, or can you use them to cover large areas like painting a body tube?

[GrossApproximator]

Some airbrush models are specifically designed for fine detail work. However, other airbrushes (and especially spray guns) can cover larger areas. For example, the airbrush I have doesn't do large areas well, so it would be much faster for me to paint a rocket with a spray can. OTOH, according to the Badger website, the Anthem 155 can do up to 3 inch spray patterns, which should cover a small rocket (i.e. BT60 based rocket) pretty fast.

[Peter Olivola]

I'm using a #5 tip on a Paashe H to paint up to BT-80 sized tubes (and fins and nose cones.) There is a big advantage in using an airbrush to do these larger sizes. It forces you to do it right by making you using multiple passes to achieve coverage. Rotating the airframe as you go, by the time you get around to where you started you'll be able to see what you missed and respaint.

Are airburshes just for small details, as I had been told, or can you use them to cover large areas like painting a body tube?

[rockets4kids]

Are airburshes just for small details, as I had been told, or can you use them to cover large areas like painting a body tube?

This depends entirely on the brush. The Paasche H that has been discussed here can go down to about 1/16" and up to 2". The big advantage of the airbrush is that with the controlled pattern you can practically eliminate overspray on all but the smallest models -- less mess and less waste. That's very important when you are working indoors! It may take a little longer, but you'll have much less chance of putting on too much paint and having it run.

[Blakkzakk]

I need to get another #5 tip for my Paasche VL.

[grouch]

I use an....

Iwata Revolution
Iwata HP-C
Iwata HP-B
Iwata Power Jet Lite compressor.

I enjoy airbrushing and bought the stuff before I got back into rockets so I have more than is needed for rockets. The Revolution is a great midline AB for rockets and other hobby uses. The HP's are a complete overkill and the compressor is as well but is oh so sexy. So far I have only airbrushed one rocket but I plan on doing each one from here on out if for no other reason than color choice alone.

[Buckeyegator]

I use an....

Iwata Revolution
Iwata HP-C
Iwata HP-B
Iwata Power Jet Lite compressor.

I enjoy airbrushing and bought the stuff before I got back into rockets so I have more than is needed for rockets. The Revolution is a great midline AB for rockets and other hobby uses. The HP's are a complete overkill and the compressor is as well but is oh so sexy. So far I have only airbrushed one rocket but I plan on doing each one from here on out if for no other reason than color choice alone.

I have the Iwata HP-CS Eclipse. Again, overkill for painting entire rockets. These Iwatas are good for detail work. However, I am rebuilding a Magnum into an Endeavor that will "appear" to have rivetted panels of metal as a surface. Rusted metallic surface plates with rivets in each corner. Will make the rocket look like a garbage hauler, but will stand out in a lineup!

A lot of this work will be done with a detail gun and a larger compressor, then all the detail will be done with the airbrush.

Terry