ZENIT 2M

[Montaro]

I start to build the ZENIT 2 with my own model. myfirst attempt to create a model was with the MERCURY REDSTONE but at the end i used some part for existing models.
The first reason to create this model was because i didn't found any ZENIT and most of the time the cardstock models are Scale 1:96 and i want to build my whole scale fleet in scale 1:48 so i have to created it, i could print using ledger but is too expensive to print it, so i prefer to use my xero in letter.

I will use a 4 cluster D motor and clear fins, the fairing will be the nose cone and electronic bay.

Diameter: 8.13 cm
Length: 1.12m
Weight : UNKNOWN
Motors: 4 Cluster D Motor

[Montaro]

More pictures

[Rocketbuilder]

Cool! Looks like it's coming along pretty well. Do you have a pdf or similar file of the parts you could post?
If there wasn't a 500 quantity minimum order on custom pencils...

[Montaro]

Do you have a pdf or similar file of the parts you could post?

Not at this moment because i'm working on it, as soon i finish i'll sharing !

[luke strawwalker]

You're gonna need a LOT of noseweight to make it stable with the weight of 4 "D" motors in the back... which means you'll have to build the whole thing a lot stronger to prevent buckling under the "g" loads of acceleration in flight...

I think you'd be better off going with 4 18 mm motors... four "C's" would have PLENTY of kick for this thing IMHO...

Good luck! OL JR

[Montaro]

You're gonna need a LOT of noseweight to make it stable with the weight of 4 "D" motors in the back... which means you'll have to build the whole thing a lot stronger to prevent buckling under the "g" loads of acceleration in flight...

I think you'd be better off going with 4 18 mm motors... four "C's" would have PLENTY of kick for this thing IMHO...

Good luck! OL JR

Yes, you are right,

I already buy the 24mm adapter to fits a 18mm motor and let the option open for use a C11 or D motors. I did it thinking in the cost of the motor not for the G force, but you are right 4 D motors will be a huge G force, maybe i can use just with 2 C11 or D motor. and find the limit of the cardstock.

[SpaceAXEplorer]

!!GO-dude-GO!!

[Montaro]

I finish the Stage 2 with some details , this stage will be the parachute bay. the interstage will be open and use a 4cm Tube for connection between Stage 1 and Stage 2.

I put it side by side my RM-3 Scale 1:48 too, and now i can see the different, the zenit don't look big, but it is !!!

[Montaro]

Yesterday, my wife has the Girl scouts Virtual Rally in home, so i was locked in my room working on this project. i works in the Stage 1 and inter stage frame. the interstage was made using toothpicks that i'll paint today. the stage 1 is almost done, it just need the engine module, so maybe the next week i will work in the motor mount and fins.

[Montaro]

I just finished the engine mount , so now i should work in the small details, the clean fins and the Electronic bay. i would like to finish for this weekend !!

[Montaro]

After long time away from home and rockets, i'm back and today was a launch day, unfortunately was a black day in Montaro Cosmonautic Corporation
The First test flight was unsuccessful, a serie of unfortunate events and wrong decisions.

1.- I used the estes launches and i think that was because is not enough current for 4 motors, only 3 motor was started
2.- Instead use 4 pairs of alligators i welded the ignitors to a cables and connect all the cables to the original alligators. so the motor that didn't start hold on the rocket in the pad launch
3.- I use a C6 Motor to avoid any incident in the first flight, but was not enough power.
4.- I choose C6-5, the problem with the 4 motor, the low speed, low altitude, heavy weight and the long delay time, you know the next sentence, :S
5.- the only not too bad news is the rocket is o.k. behind the intersection frame, so i just have to rebuild the recovery bay, electronic bay and nose cone

[luke strawwalker]

After long time away from home and rockets, i'm back and today was a launch day, unfortunately was a black day in Montaro Cosmonautic Corporation
The First test flight was unsuccessful, a serie of unfortunate events and wrong decisions.

1.- I used the estes launches and i think that was because is not enough current for 4 motors, only 3 motor was started
2.- Instead use 4 pairs of alligators i welded the ignitors to a cables and connect all the cables to the original alligators. so the motor that didn't start hold on the rocket in the pad launch
3.- I use a C6 Motor to avoid any incident in the first flight, but was not enough power.
4.- I choose C6-5, the problem with the 4 motor, the low speed, low altitude, heavy weight and the long delay time, you know the next sentence, :S
5.- the only not too bad news is the rocket is o.k. behind the intersection frame, so i just have to rebuild the recovery bay, electronic bay and nose cone

Sorry to hear about your mishap... looked cool trying to go up though!

A few words of advice...
1) Standard Estes launch controllers (Electron Beams, "E" controller, etc) powered by "AA" batteries are TOTALLY INADEQUATE to ignite clusters... they BARELY light ONE ignitor (as one can tell when someone's using one with worn batteries-- "3, 2, 1, IGNITION!..." wait... 1, 2, 3... PffftttZZZZZTTTT!!! LIFTOFF!!! ) I've seen more than enough of folks having to hold the button down and count to THREE before the ignitor even THINKS about firing... You can modify your Estes controller to do the job, or you can build one from scratch for cluster launches. The most important thing is to use a LARGE CAPACITY 12 volt battery (like a lawnmower battery or car battery or car jumper battery pack like you'd put in the trunk for emergencies). The second most important thing is, get rid of the dinky bell wire Estes uses on their controller leads to the pad and replace it all with regular 110 volt lamp cord or extension cord... which can reliably carry large amounts of current from the battery to the ignitors of your cluster. There have been several good threads on this subject in the fairly recent past... I'm sure a search will turn them up fairly easily. I posted detailed instructions and wiring diagrams and component diagrams for how to modify an Estes controller in several of these threads...

2) Not sure if you're talking about clip whips or what... sounds like you lengthened your ignitors with soldered on leads and then twisted them all together in pairs and clipped your controller leads to that?? One motor didn't fire and the "ignitor harness" kept the rocket from lifting off?? There's nothing wrong with extending the leads and twisting them together-- I've heard of lots of folks doing that, and it's better and more reliable than clip whips (having a bunch of clips connected together to one side of each ignitor, with the pigtail of them all clipped to one of the ignition clips, and having another bunch of clips connected to the other leads of the ignitors pigtailed together to the other ignitor lead). Sounds like a bit of bad luck that it kept the rocket from lifting off. If you're so inclined, Quest Q2G2 ignitors are the cat's meow for clustering-- they use VERY little current and have their own long thin insulated leadout wires that can easily be twisted together into groups and connected to the original controller clips. Just be aware that they use SO little current, that just inserting the safety key of the regular Estes controller (using a lightbulb for continuity checks) is enough to set them off since the bulb will pass enough current to fire them. If you use a regular Estes controller with them, be sure you do your countdown holding the button down and INSERT THE SAFETY KEY AT "ZERO" FOR INSTANTANEOUS LAUNCH... Don't insert the key first and then give the countdown...

3)Sounds like you had a lot of noseweight... but of course if one or more motors didn't ignite, well, that's probably the biggest part of the problem right there... not only do the remaining motors that DID fire have to lift the rocket, but also the dead weight of the motor(s) that didn't fire as well... If ALL the motors fired and you STILL crashed, then I'd say "yep you need "D" motors clustered" but since one or more of the "C"s didn't fire, well, we just don't know for sure do we??

4) If the rocket is heavy and draggy, you're better off with the -3 delay... the -5 is really for sporty, sleek, and fast rockets that need a bit longer to coast and lose speed and get up to maximum altitude before popping the chute out... For a heavy rocket, you're always better off to try it with the shorter time delay first... IF the rocket deploys the chute while it's still coasting upward at a pretty good speed, THEN you can try the next longer delay... usually a bit too short is better than a bit too long... (better to deploy the chute a little before maximum altitude than just above the ground or right after impact! )

5) Sounds like a fairly easy fix... nice thing about cardstock rocketry, huh??

Try, try again! KUTGW!!!

Later! OL JR

[Montaro]

Sorry to hear about your mishap... looked cool trying to go up though!

A few words of advice...
1) Standard Estes launch controllers (Electron Beams, "E" controller, etc) powered by "AA" batteries are TOTALLY INADEQUATE to ignite clusters... they BARELY light ONE ignitor (as one can tell when someone's using one with worn batteries-- "3, 2, 1, IGNITION!..." wait... 1, 2, 3... PffftttZZZZZTTTT!!! LIFTOFF!!! ) I've seen more than enough of folks having to hold the button down and count to THREE before the ignitor even THINKS about firing... You can modify your Estes controller to do the job, or you can build one from scratch for cluster launches. The most important thing is to use a LARGE CAPACITY 12 volt battery (like a lawnmower battery or car battery or car jumper battery pack like you'd put in the trunk for emergencies). The second most important thing is, get rid of the dinky bell wire Estes uses on their controller leads to the pad and replace it all with regular 110 volt lamp cord or extension cord... which can reliably carry large amounts of current from the battery to the ignitors of your cluster. There have been several good threads on this subject in the fairly recent past... I'm sure a search will turn them up fairly easily. I posted detailed instructions and wiring diagrams and component diagrams for how to modify an Estes controller in several of these threads...

Yes, i'm Working in a 12V launch controller

2) Not sure if you're talking about clip whips or what... sounds like you lengthened your ignitors with soldered on leads and then twisted them all together in pairs and clipped your controller leads to that?? One motor didn't fire and the "ignitor harness" kept the rocket from lifting off?? There's nothing wrong with extending the leads and twisting them together-- I've heard of lots of folks doing that, and it's better and more reliable than clip whips (having a bunch of clips connected together to one side of each ignitor, with the pigtail of them all clipped to one of the ignition clips, and having another bunch of clips connected to the other leads of the ignitors pigtailed together to the other ignitor lead). Sounds like a bit of bad luck that it kept the rocket from lifting off. If you're so inclined, Quest Q2G2 ignitors are the cat's meow for clustering-- they use VERY little current and have their own long thin insulated leadout wires that can easily be twisted together into groups and connected to the original controller clips. Just be aware that they use SO little current, that just inserting the safety key of the regular Estes controller (using a lightbulb for continuity checks) is enough to set them off since the bulb will pass enough current to fire them. If you use a regular Estes controller with them, be sure you do your countdown holding the button down and INSERT THE SAFETY KEY AT "ZERO" FOR INSTANTANEOUS LAUNCH... Don't insert the key first and then give the countdown...

Yes, i was talking about the clipped,i'll continue using the extensions soldered an twist then all together to clip the controlled, i think the problem was the controller.

3)Sounds like you had a lot of noseweight... but of course if one or more motors didn't ignite, well, that's probably the biggest part of the problem right there... not only do the remaining motors that DID fire have to lift the rocket, but also the dead weight of the motor(s) that didn't fire as well... If ALL the motors fired and you STILL crashed, then I'd say "yep you need "D" motors clustered" but since one or more of the "C"s didn't fire, well, we just don't know for sure do we??

Next fligth will be with D if everything look o.k. i will try C

4) If the rocket is heavy and draggy, you're better off with the -3 delay... the -5 is really for sporty, sleek, and fast rockets that need a bit longer to coast and lose speed and get up to maximum altitude before popping the chute out... For a heavy rocket, you're always better off to try it with the shorter time delay first... IF the rocket deploys the chute while it's still coasting upward at a pretty good speed, THEN you can try the next longer delay... usually a bit too short is better than a bit too long... (better to deploy the chute a little before maximum altitude than just above the ground or right after impact! )

yes, defenitilly the next test flights will be with the smallest delay

5) Sounds like a fairly easy fix... nice thing about cardstock rocketry, huh??

yes wasn't hard

Try, try again! KUTGW!!!

Later! OL JR

Thanks Luke as always your comments are very useful

[Montaro]

I rebuild the Zenit

This time i modified the fins to lose weigh and this time i used the Zenit 2M fairing to have more height.

Now is ready for the second test flight on Saturday 21 with the Alamo Rocketeers in San Antonio, TX

[Montaro]

Saturday i was in San antonio and i Join to the Alamo Rocketeers Monthly Launch, I test the second version, it flew really nice with 4 Motors D12-4

Data Log (Altimeter 2)
Motors: 4 - D12-4 (Cluster)
Apogee: 258 m (846 ft)
Top Speed: 534 KPH (331 MPH)

The bottom balsa Motor mount didn't support the heat and burn, i should remplace with plywood. the rest was excelent, i'm very happy because this is my first cluster on my own design.



This video is from Art Applewhite, my 2 years old boy was very excited for the launch, he is always with me in all the launchs !!!

[Montaro]

4 Motors burning !!!

[Serpico]

Congrats!! Looks good!!

[Rocketbuilder]

Yep, very nice!
Those are some great flight pics, too.

[SpaceAXEplorer]

You put some serious work into that model. Congratulations, on your model and flight!
Eric

[artapplewhite]

Saturday i was in San antonio and i Join to the Alamo Rocketeers Monthly Launch, I test the second version, it flew really nice with 4 Motors D12-4

This video is from Art Applewhite, my 2 years old boy was very excited for the launch, he is always with me in all the launchs !!!

Montaro,

It was a pleasure having you and your son at our launch. Your rockets were fantastic. I wish everyone was a creative as you. I'm sorry my poor camera skills in the video, did not do justice to your rocket.

You and your family are welcome at our launches any time and we hope to see you again really soon.

Art Applewhite
Senior Advisor, Alamo Rocketeers, NAR #661

[cwbullet]

Great flight and a fantastic build.

[JAL3]

I'm sorry I had to leave early to get to work and did not have a chance to meet you.

Some people on TRF were counting on my spy mission to find out your secrets!