Need help with confusion. Please

[jazzviper1]

I am a still a bit confused about the need for a LEUP.
What do I have to have one for ?
I don't need them for motors any more, right?

Sorry, I just need some one to put it in SIMPLE terms for me.

Thank you.

Mike

[crossfire]

Mike
You need a LEUP to store Black Powder if you don't own a old firearm that uses BP
You need a LEUP tp buy and store e-matches.
I was told by the BATFE app center that it maybe good for me to renew the permit in case the BATFE reopened the case. If I let my permit expire I would need to start all over to get a permit. It maybe a lot harder to get a new permit. They did ask me if I knew that for rocket motors a permit was no longer needed. For $50 for 3 years its not bad. If nothing changes over the next 3 years I might not renew.
gp

[powderburner]

I completely understand your confusion. If my own understanding is correct:

You do need a LEUP / magazine if you purchase your igniters separately, or make them yourself (from a kit or from scratch)

You don't need a LEUP / magazine if your igniters come with your motors or reloads

You do need a LEUP / magazine if you purchase blackpowder (or equivalents) separately, in bulk as in a one-pound or five-pound can, for use as rocket ejection charges

You don't need a LEUP / magazine if you only use the ejection charge material that comes with your motors or reloads (or if you buy the Aerotech blackpowder reloads for use with their electronic closure device)

You may need a LEUP / magazine if you run into an uninformed agent.

[bobkrech]

No. You do not need an Explosives permit for purchase, process, transport or use APCP motors.

Here's the achive of the events.

Bob

[Worsaer]

So, are you saying that it depends on why you purchase BP (intent), not how you use it (action)? In other words, if I have a BP firearm, and buy a pound of BP for that purpose, I can still use the BP for my rocket and not need a permit?

[powderburner]

So, are you saying that it depends on why you purchase BP (intent), not how you use it (action)? In other words, if I have a BP firearm, and buy a pound of BP for that purpose, I can still use the BP for my rocket and not need a permit?

As I understand it, no. If you use BP in a rocket you must have the paperwork, the permits, the storage magazine, the Spanish Inquisition, and all the rest....IF you get tagged by an aggressive agent. The odds of that are pretty small, so on a "practical" basis a lot of folks ignore the hazard and skate along assuming that the firearm excuse will save their bacon if they ever run into an inspection problem. The statutes would seem to be pretty clear about allowing licensing exemptions only for use in firearms (which does not include rockets). You will have to be your own judge of what level of risk you are willing to take on. If the local authorities want to make an example of you (or run for another term of office by claiming to be "tough on crime") you could theoretically end up losing in a big way.

From what I have learned through discussion with some law enforcement friends, they indicated that if they were presented with this problem that they would take the most conservative approach (LEUP reqd for rocketry use, even if you also own a powderburning firearm).

Best approach would be to consult a real lawyer that specializes in this field.

[jazzviper1]

The brand of BP substitute that I have is Hodgdon Triple Seven.
It says " Not Smokless Powder, but approved to ship (DOT) and store (NFPA) as such.
Would this still be considered BP?

And if I need a magazine, how much does it cost and where can I keep it?
I don't have a garage.

[Salvage-1]

Triple 7, Pyrodex, Black Powder etc, are all low explosives and are treated roughly the same.
I have a few antique and replica BP guns (they aren't technically firearms) and I have no problem dropping an order to Powder, Inc. and getting up to 50lb of BP or substitute. Anything over 50lb and I would need a magazine. That is just what I know from the 'other side' of BP use. I think the 50lb limit also applies to storage of BP and subs no matter the use.

[cobra1336]

I just received my LEUP permits in the mail yesterday. I said to the wife, imagine getting pulled over or getting in an accident with all this stuff in the car. The papers may help an uninformed officer and prevent a lot of problems.

[MountainRocketeer]

So, practically speaking, what do I need in the way of a magazine to get an LEUP so I can use and store igniters and a pound or less of BP?

My shed is 10 feet from my house and less than 100 from the neighbor's house and the road. I already have BP and smokeless for hunting and shooting, but no special magazine, just an ammo box. I am not going to build anything permanent as I plan to get a bigger house for the growing family.

[stealth6]

All I've got to say on this whole issue is that for those of us that just fly a few rockets now and then, and that a 1lb can of BP will last a LONG time for -

what a bloody pain in the arse.

[bobkrech]

So, practically speaking, what do I need in the way of a magazine to get an LEUP so I can use and store igniters and a pound or less of BP?

My shed is 10 feet from my house and less than 100 from the neighbor's house and the road. I already have BP and smokeless for hunting and shooting, but no special magazine, just an ammo box. I am not going to build anything permanent as I plan to get a bigger house for the growing family.

If you already use BP for hunting, you don't need to store it (unless you have more than 50 pounds in a magazine IIRC.

If you only use igniters that come with your motors, you don't need a magazine either.

Otherwise it's a Type 4 magazine.

Bob