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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRAGON64 View Post
    Vaseline has been in my range box for a while, I used it on all of my hobbyline motors from Aerotech.

    Now DOW111... I was glad when I finally ran out of that stuff. For it's intended purpose, it works great. It lubes the rings nicely, it protects the casing from hot gases and motor runs that might cause a liner to get stuck. But the grease is so viscous that it could grip the rubber gloves right off my hands while I was trying to grease a motor liner. And a little bit goes a long way... litterally, I would have grease in places I don't remember handling; cell phone, igniters, a whole roll of paper towels is not enough! I switched to Super Lube once that 111 ran out. Much more user friendly, and easy on the nitril gloves.
    If it was that bad and such a hassle throw it away or just don't use it. How much are we talking $6-7??

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by RocketManDan View Post
    If it was that bad and such a hassle throw it away or just don't use it. How much are we talking $6-7??
    More like $24 as I was using the large tube that mounts in a silicon gun... and I'm not accustomed to tossing my money away just because it was hard to work with... I used every last grease stain in that tube.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster, and if you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRAGON64 View Post
    More like $24 as I was using the large tube that mounts in a silicon gun... and I'm not accustomed to tossing my money away just because it was hard to work with... I used every last grease stain in that tube.
    looks like you learned not to buy it anymore. What a waste

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by RocketManDan View Post
    looks like you learned not to buy it anymore. What a waste
    Not at all a waste, there are fliers that swear by it, as it serves it's purpose well... but once was enough for me.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster, and if you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

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  5. #35
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    Vaseline....it's all I've ever used, never had a problem. As has been said, it's so the rings and the liners can be inserted before and removed easily after use.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRAGON64 View Post
    Not at all a waste, there are fliers that swear by it, as it serves it's purpose well... but once was enough for me.
    All I am saying that maybe buy something that would have worked better and save the other for stuff its intended for.

  7. #37
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    Dow 111 is what I use for Research motors. Only because that is what my research mentors told me to use. I do not grease liners (or not yet). I can see where it could be troublesome there.

  8. #38
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    I never grease the liners either. Rule of thumb: clean out the casing right away after use, no grease needed for the liner. That's what I do, again, never had a problem.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by cavecentral View Post
    Dow 111 is what I use for Research motors. Only because that is what my research mentors told me to use. I do not grease liners (or not yet). I can see where it could be troublesome there.
    I had an ungreased liner to stick in 5-grain 76mm Loki hardware once, and it took quite a while to extract it... I greased all liners from then on out.

    For me, Super Lube was much easier to use and clean up, I was glad to switch out.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster, and if you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelltym88 View Post
    I never grease the liners either. Rule of thumb: clean out the casing right away after use, no grease needed for the liner. That's what I do, again, never had a problem.
    Uh oh, you said the N-word (never)... and during Mercury Retrograde too!
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster, and if you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

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  11. #41
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    I find myself wondering how this stuff would work:

    http://www.petrolgel.com/

    Its melting point is 195, so it is significantly higher than Vaseline. Since I work in a dairy, we have this stuff all around and use it for most everything that doesn't need a lubricating spray. I may swipe a dollop or two to try next time I fly my reloads.
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpoehlein View Post
    I find myself wondering how this stuff would work:

    http://www.petrolgel.com/

    Its melting point is 195, so it is significantly higher than Vaseline. Since I work in a dairy, we have this stuff all around and use it for most everything that doesn't need a lubricating spray. I may swipe a dollop or two to try next time I fly my reloads.
    My bet is it would work well. But it's also likely a bit on the expensive side, since it looks like it's for use in areas that will come in contact with food.

    Remember, the point of the lube is just that -- as a lubricant to allow the ring to slide into place without hanging up and tearing. Anything that doesn't attack the rings or other motor components should work just fine.

    -Kevin

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by cavecentral View Post
    Switched to DOW 111 for snap ring cases.
    Quote Originally Posted by scsager View Post
    Super Lube synthetic grease is what is in that little tube that comes with many AT cases. Available at Ace and many Big Box stores.
    Dow 111, Super Lube, etc. are silicone greases, there are only a few
    companies that make silicone grease the rest of them are just repackaging
    and marketing their brand.

    Go to any Hardware or Auto Parts store and ask for dielectric grease.
    That will do you just fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Bomber F/X View Post
    IIRC petroleum products will degrade the o-ring's over time.
    All depends on what the O-ring is made of.
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  14. #44
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    concerning Dow greases

    I've used a wide range of their products. I've used 33, 44, and 111 on everything from my pistol to O-rings in an RMS. Most was applied with a toothpick or Q-tip, and then wiped off (most people put too much on). You do not want to get 111 on your fingers, it has to wear off. A very little bit goes a long way. Expensive? I've never paid for any. They give free samples away if you call and ask nicely.

    MolyKote 44 does a really good job of preventing galling on the slide/frame surfaces of an auto pistol.
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelltym88 View Post
    I never grease the liners either. Rule of thumb: clean out the casing right away after use, no grease needed for the liner. That's what I do, again, never had a problem.
    I did the same thing as you - never greased a liner - until my cert flight a week ago.

    I've flown 29/40-120 hobbyline RMS loads for years, dozen's of "F" and "G" flights without a problem. Ever. Liners slid right in, and came right out after the flight. I always assembled the motors the night before a planned launch day in my air conditioned kitchen.

    My cert flight was my first assembly of a 38mm motor. Not sure if 38mm normally has a tighter liner, or it was just a very humid day, but the ungreased liner locked up in the case about 3/4 of an inch short of going all the way in. We tried everything to convince it to get in there, but no luck. It finally came out with a ton of effort using a set of needle nose plyers. By this time it was a bit mangled, and even after greasing it got stuck again. I ended up having to buy another reload kit for my cert flight. Expensive lesson.

    The following day I still had rocket fever so I launched two G64-4W at my local field. The motors both assembled fine, I didn't grease the liners either. When I got them home, both liners were solidly stuck and it took alot of time and mess getting them out.

    Moral of the story - I'll be greasing liners from here on out!
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  16. #46
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    Hate to break it to you, but greasing liners doesn't guarantee they'll come out easily. I've fought to extract greased liners.

    It's a matter of when the liner burns through a bit and chars, sticking to the case in the process. Grease does you absolutely no good when that happens, and I can tell you from experience that it doesn't do anything to prevent it, either.

    It does, however, consume a lot more grease, and make your hands slimey.

    -Kevin

  17. #47
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    For me, phenolic liners are more likely to seize in a case, no matter what lube I use on it.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster, and if you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

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  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRAGON64 View Post
    For me, phenolic liners are more likely to seize in a case, no matter what lube I use on it.
    I've found the same to be true. I suspect that motors that use phenolic liners run hotter, and are thus more likely to char, which is what causes them to stick in the first place.

    Purely a theory -- I know enough about making motors to be dangerous enough to be at risk of getting a hangnail, and not much more than that.

    -Kevin

  19. #49
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    There is a dry graphite lubricant I use on a number of my peices of ag
    equipment. I wonder if a dry graphite film would work better on liner issues.

    I will post some more on this product later.

    I launch some Aerotech RMS F and G motors and have not had any liner
    issues yet.
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  20. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobkrech View Post
    Remember, the grease does not make the seal. It is simply a lubricant that allows the o-ring to slide and not twist as you tighten the casing.

    Anything that is slippery will work. A little bit will work. Don't used more than a little bit and don't get it on the propellant grains or the delay grain. Grease inhibits the surfaces and can prevent it from igniting.

    Bob
    thanks for saving me from typing that ... it has nothing to do with heat or pressurization... it's simply for making the o-ring slick so it doesn't pinch during assembly. the o ring provides the seal.
    it takes a very tiny amount

    this is a far as o rings are concerned .. greasing liners ..I don't know whats best
    Last edited by Stymye; 27th March 2012 at 10:55 PM.
    Andy

  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by RocketManDan View Post
    I agree +1
    I've used vaseline on 29mm motors for a long time, as well as a grease called "super lube" Both have worked fine!




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  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by troj View Post
    I've found the same to be true. I suspect that motors that use phenolic liners run hotter, and are thus more likely to char, which is what causes them to stick in the first place....
    -Kevin
    I haven't typically greased liners, but I do on the Aerotech G138, per the instructions: "6. Apply a liberal amount of grease to the outside surface of the propellant grain". There is no paper liner for this grain, just a thin synthetic liner of some sort bonded to the grain.
    Last edited by dpower; 28th March 2012 at 04:19 PM.
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  23. #53
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    I do use grease on the outside as per the instructions, though I've never had burn-through on a G138 before. I take off the forward closure, everything pops out of it nice and cleanly under pressure from the o-ring (unlike the high-power 29mm's: I HATE those forward closures), take out the aft closure, and then use the nozzle to push everything out of the case. No scrubbing necessary.
    Temporarily potential impulse transformed into no-longer-potential-anymore impulse since 2013-01-01: A lot.

  24. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpower View Post
    I haven't typically greased liners, but I do on the Aerotech G138, per the instructions: "6. Apply a liberal amount of grease to the outside surface of the propellant grain". There is no paper liner for this grain, just a thin synthetic liner of some sort bonded to the grain.
    Following the instructions for the motor is always the best (and safest) route.

    My guess is that in this case, the grease is being used as an inhibitor on the outside of the grain.

    -Kevin

  25. #55
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    You mean that the grease prevents the edge of the liner from getting flame behind it?

    In any case (or rather, in only the 29/40-120 case ahaha) the G138 is awesome because it's so fast to load and easy to clean and has such amazing performance for the size. Though that was off-topic.
    Temporarily potential impulse transformed into no-longer-potential-anymore impulse since 2013-01-01: A lot.

  26. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarVac View Post
    You mean that the grease prevents the edge of the liner from getting flame behind it?
    It makes it harder to get it to burn.

    -Kevin

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