SR-71 Blackbird build thread - FINISHED

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In preparation to glue on the paper the instructions specify that lines be drawn down the top and bottom of each wing. This defines an area for glue to be spread which will hold the paper to the correct shape. Here's the lines on the bottom of the wings.

17 Wing lines.jpg

Notice that in that picture that there is not a line drawn down the top of the tube. This is a result of me not reading the directions carefully enough, even though I did read them before starting. When I had the paper fin guide on the tube I only drew the two lines for the wings. Since there were no fins going on the top and bottom of the tube I didn't draw the lines in those places.

There are 3 steps to gluing on each piece of paper. 1) Glue the paper onto the tube using a very small amount of glue along the top. 2) Pull the paper down and glue onto the widest part of the wings. 3) Pull the paper down and glue onto the wings near the front of the plane.

I had to use the fin guide and a straight edge to draw the lines on the top and bottom of the tubes. This wasn't easy now that the wings were on but I managed. I read on someone else's build thread that you should have the nose cone in place when papering the wings to make sure the paper was positioned correctly so I put it on. Just for fun I also sat the nacelles down next to the wings to see how it would look.

18 dry fit.jpg

I also drew a line on the bottom of the paper to spread some glue on. I used a VERY small amount of glue and spread it out with my finger before gluing it onto the tube. There are small cuts in the paper to help line up the paper onto the pencil line and make sure it's straight.

19 paper line for glue.jpg
 
That doesn't make any sense ... why not paint it flat black and then dull coat the decals?? Less work same results...but of course if you want to make it hard on yourself

How is it more work, or harder on myself, to paint glossy instead of dull?

Whenever I've read anything about decals it's always said to put decals onto glossy paint to make them look right. Apparently putting them onto a dull coat doesn't give the same finished look. Being new at this I haven't tried putting decals on dull to see the difference. Maybe I should try it on a test piece and see what it looks like.

I've put decals on a glossy coat followed by a dull clear coat when I built the Estes Saturn V and they turned out fantastic. So I'm going with what I know works.
 
Maybe its just me but that top line looks a little off center? Those fins marking discs that ESTES makes are worth it for this sort of thing.
 
because painting a rocket flat black is much more forgiving than gloss ... and you would probably use a lot less dull coat when applying it. The decals are are going to be dull anyway, so why does it matter if it goes goes over gloss?? They make a special decal solution that allows the decal to slide more freely. I think its called Microsol or something like that?

How is it more work, or harder on myself, to paint glossy instead of dull?

Whenever I've read anything about decals it's always said to put decals onto glossy paint to make them look right. Apparently putting them onto a dull coat doesn't give the same finished look. Being new at this I haven't tried putting decals on dull to see the difference. Maybe I should try it on a test piece and see what it looks like.

I've put decals on a glossy coat followed by a dull clear coat when I built the Estes Saturn V and they turned out fantastic. So I'm going with what I know works.
 
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Maybe its just me but that top line looks a little off center? Those fins marking discs that ESTES makes are worth it for this sort of thing.

It's not. It was checked and double checked. But it's only a guideline for where to put glue and to line up the paper so it's not as critical as when you're putting on a wing. I ended up using the nose cone to line up the front end anyway so the only thing I really needed was a tick mark at the back of the tube.

But thanks for asking.
 
It's not. It was checked and double checked. But it's only a guideline for where to put glue and to line up the paper so it's not as critical as when you're putting on a wing. I ended up using the nose cone to line up the front end anyway so the only thing I really needed was a tick mark at the back of the tube.

But thanks for asking.

Look into that kit ESTES has...its worth it for marking fin lines etc..
 
RocketManDan said:
because painting a rocket flat black is much more forgiving than gloss ... and you would probably use a lot less dull coat when applying it. The decals are are going to be dull anyway, so why does it matter if it goes goes over gloss?? They make a special decal solution that allows the decal to slide more freely. I think its called Microsol or something like that?

Putting waterside decals over matte paint results in silvering a lot of the time due to surface effects and air infiltration as they dry. Putting them on gloss paint avoids the problem.

GO MUSHTANG!

:horse:
 
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Putting waterside decals over matte paint results in silvering a lot of the time due to surface effects and air infiltration as they dry. Putting them on gloss paint avoids the problem.

GO MUSTANG!

:horse:

seems like a lot of work for decals. Heck then I would leave it gloss black then.
 
The first paper to glue on is the bottom piece. You glue it onto the tube on the line I mentioned above but be sure to have the nose cone in place when you do because the paper should extend past the end of the tube and over the back edge of the nose plastic. I would have been very upset if I didn't check this until the glue had already dried. Oops!

Once the paper dries onto the tube you lift the side and smear glue onto the wing in between the edge of the wing and the pencil line. The glue is only on the widest part of the wing, the front section remains glued only on the tube line.

Pushing the paper down onto the wings is tricky if you've got too much glue. Besides making the paper wrinkle it also isn't very sticky. The key seems to be to smear on very little glue and letting it get tacky before pushing the paper into place. Once you start pushing the paper down you have to hurry in case you want to reposition - and you will. I was able to slide the paper slightly to really push it into place after the initial placement. Holding it in place for a minute kept it in place long enough to be permanent. I then did the other wing of the bottom paper the same way.

Here is the back and front of the plane bottom after the bottom paper was glued onto the wings.

20 paper gluing.jpg21 bottom paper glued down.jpg

The top paper went on the same way. Here's the back of the rocket after the top paper was glued to the tube.

22 top paper glued on line.jpg

After the glue had dried on the wings I noticed that I didn't do a good job of getting the paper glued all the way to the front edge of the wings, right where it transitions to the front section. So I put some glue on a small piece of card stock scrap and slid the glue in between the paper to smear on the balsa wings. A couple of old clothes pins helped hold the paper in place for a few minutes to make sure it dried in place.

23 glue to front of wings.jpg

After about 10 minutes they were taken off and the paper was glued to the wings!! The paper overlaps slightly on the edge of the wings so I'll have to trim it off before gluing on the nacelles.
 
The front section glues down in the same way as the back section by lifting the paper and putting glue onto the balsa and pressing down on the paper. There's just a lot less area to spread glue onto. Mainly the glue goes close to the edge.

Here's the front edge showing the top side glued down with the bottom side still off.
24 front edge.jpg

The nose cone is a little twisted in that picture, but it actually lines up really well.

Here's another angle showing one side glued down before gluing the other.
25 front edge.jpg

After gluing on the other paper to the bottom there's one last step of gluing to go. The paper on the bottom is wider than the paper on the top. There's a small tab that will bend up to cover the balsa edge. Before I glued it in place I trimmed the top paper on that front section flush with the balsa edge. After pre-bending the paper tab I put on a little glue and held it in place. It's about a 4 or 5 inch section and holding the tabs down turned out to be a pain in the rear and I could tell that the glue wasn't going to dry with the tabs looking pretty. I needed to be able to hold something flat against both sides at the same time.

Looking around the kitchen I saw some cookbooks so I pulled a few out and stacked them up high enough so I could press the front section in between a book and the counter top while the wide part of the rocket hung off the edge.

26 cookbooks.jpg

This seemed to work and about 20 minutes later I came back to see how it was drying and everything looked great. I realized just then that I'd left the rocket hanging out over the top of the dog's water dish, and if I'd dropped it I would have ruined my work.

Here's the front section after the glue dried.

27 paper finished.jpg

You can more easily see here why the nose cone should be in place during the placement of the paper. The nose cone slides down in between the paper and up against the tube.

The paper is all glued on now! Before I glue the nacelles to the rocket I have to trim and sand the edges of the wings where the paper overlaps.
 
I took another picture of the nacelles sitting next to the wings just for fun. It's easy to see that the edge of the wing needs to be cleaned up a little before it's glued on, but a few glue fillets will end up covering any minor defects in the edge anyway.

It's looking more and more like an airplane.

28 dry fit.jpg
 
Nice work man, it's looking good.

As for flat versus gloss, flat gives a more authentic look to the finished rocket if you don't clear coat over the decals. Even with a matte finish clear it just doesn't look quit right IMO. I've built three of these in the past one was built as you are doing with gloss paint followed by decals followed by clear, one was built with flat black paint followed by decals with no clear coat, one was painted flat sky blue followed by decals followed by clear(this was my SR-71 Bluebird of happiness, along way to go for a bad joke). By far the flat black without clear was the most authentic looking IMO. This isn't the prefered technique with decals but it was a trade off to get what IMO is the right look.

By the way, I know you said you were going to scan the overlays, did you also scan the decal sheet?
 
By the way, I know you said you were going to scan the overlays, did you also scan the decal sheet?

As I mentioned earlier the paper coverings were too big for my scanner so I didn't scan them but I never thought about scanning the decals. I only recently bought some DIY decal sheets and can now reproduce a decal if I mess one up, so I'll definitely scan them before using. Thanks for that heads up!!

By far the flat black without clear was the most authentic looking IMO. This isn't the prefered technique with decals but it was a trade off to get what IMO is the right look.

Probably, but I'm less concerned with getting an accurate finish as I am with getting a good looking finish. With glossy black paint and a matte clear coat the final color of black might be slightly off but from what I've read the decals will look much better.
 
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Probably, but I'm less concerned with getting an accurate finish as I am with getting a good looking finish. With glossy black paint and a matte clear coat the final color of black might be slightly off but from what I've read the decals will look much better.

Of course, I wasn't suggesting that you should do any different. I was just giving my opinion ie. flat vs gloss on this particular rocket. Believe me I took some ribbing on my choice to paint one blue so I'm probably the last person to take paint advice from.

As I recall one issue I had with launching this rocket was that the edges of the paper overlay began to fray where they met the nose cone. Perhaps some CA applied to the edge would help to make them last longer?

I'm thinking of getting another one these just to make scans of the fins, overlays and decals. There are ways to scan items that are to big for the scanner. Or if push came to shove I can do a measured drawing in cadd.
 
Of course, I wasn't suggesting that you should do any different. I was just giving my opinion ie. flat vs gloss on this particular rocket. Believe me I took some ribbing on my choice to paint one blue so I'm probably the last person to take paint advice from.

As I recall one issue I had with launching this rocket was that the edges of the paper overlay began to fray where they met the nose cone. Perhaps some CA applied to the edge would help to make them last longer?

I'm thinking of getting another one these just to make scans of the fins, overlays and decals. There are ways to scan items that are to big for the scanner. Or if push came to shove I can do a measured drawing in cadd.

Jeff

If you decide on doing that I might be interested in buying some? Can you do an upscale of this kit? I might break down and do it in ROCKSIM. Fly it on 3 24's?
 
I went to scan them last night and they wouldn't fit on my scanner, so I decided that if I eff up royal and had to find a replacement I'd either 1) rely on the good people on these forums to scan theirs and email me the file, or 2) buy another kit. I know they're out of production but there are still a few around and they're not expensive yet.

The more I get done on this kit, the more glad I am that I got it. It's going to look GREAT when finished!!!

You could always trace them on poster board or butcher paper or something...

Good so far! OL JR :)
 
This next step was a fairly easy one - gluing the plastic pieces into the short tubes to form the nacelles (the jet engines in the middle of the wings). The plastic pieces had been cut apart and sanded in an earlier step so I just put plenty of model glue onto the parts and spun them into place.

I always twist parts with glue on them if possible in order to spread the glue out evenly.

The trick on these is to get the point on the nose cones to be centered. The front plastic piece doesn't fit tight so it's got enough room to point off center pretty easily. It also doesn't have a lip around it that butts up against the tube like the nozzle does, it slides down inside the tube. It's not so much a nose cone as the front of the air inlet. But sighting down the front of it and looking at it from all different angles while making adjustments I think they're in straight.

View attachment 75311

These air inlet cones are really neat on the actual plane. They will move back and front during flight to keep the air intake for the turbines subsonic, even while the plane was flying above Mach 3.

This is done on most supersonic planes... the inlet cones on the MiGs did the same thing, as did the 'half cones' on the sides of Mirages. The F-4 Phantoms used an "air fence" intake that moved out away from the fuselage at different speeds to create a shock wave that enveloped the intake, which causes the air to drop from supersonic to subsonic as it passes through the shock wave and into the inlet. The F-14 and F-15 used "drooping" nose inlets (that's why they're sharply angled with the top edge much further forward than the bottom edge of the inlet) to create a shockwave and lower the air speed coming into the inlet to subsonic at the compressor face. This sort of ties in with the size of the inlet opening-- as airspeed of the plane increases, the size of the inlet actually needs to be smaller (a small volume of supersonic air coming in the front of the inlet can then EXPAND and go subsonic in the process) and therefore provide smooth subsonic airflow at the compressor face. BUT, sizing the inlet for supersonic airflow (and a PARTICULAR supersonic speed) means that the inlet can be TOO BIG at super-high speeds above the designed size (like during a power dive), and TOO SMALL for certain intermediate speeds, and ESPECIALLY at takeoff, starving the compressor of sufficient airflow and causing the compressor blades to 'stall' for lack of air. This is where designs like the "spring loaded air inlet doors" like those used on the Harrier's inlets come into play... the inlet is sized for the airflow needs at maximum speed, where the spring loaded inlet doors surrounding the inlet leading edge remain closed, yet when the plane is sitting still on the runway about to take off, the inlet doors are "sucked" open, allowing the additional air volume needed by the engine to come in from BESIDE the inlet instead of directly through the front of it, and the spring-loaded inlet doors can open propotionally automatically to meet the air inlet demands at ANY speed... open a little crack at high speeds when additional air is needed, to "half open" at say half-speed, to full open starting the takeoff run on the runway at full power.

I read an interesting study about this a few years ago... very neat stuff...

Later! OL JR :)
 
That doesn't make any sense ... why not paint it flat black and then dull coat the decals?? Less work same results...but of course if you want to make it hard on yourself

Putting decals over dull coat results in the decals "silvering" from air trapped underneath the decal film by the matte finish of the paint, which itself is created by small "hills-n-valleys" in the surface of the paint, which scatter reflected light and makes the surface appear "dull", rather than "glossy" paints which flow out into a "near perfect" smooth glasslike surface. Decals applied over glossy surfaces will not (SHOULD not) have any trapped air underneath them (and yeah, while you put on waterslides with water, therefore there SHOULDN'T be trapped air even on matte finishes, when the water evaporates away, air takes it's place under the decal on matte finishes, leaving them looking "silvery" and standing out (fugly) on the surface of the model's paint). Decals put on glossy paint snug down firmly to the glass-like surface and "disappear" into the surface.

Once the decals are all on and look good, then a coat of "matte finish" clearcoat goes on over the glossy paint AND decals, both protecting the decals and underlying paint AND giving the "hills-n-valleys" finish that scatters light and makes the "dull" look of a matte finish...
Decalfinishes.jpg

Get it?? Not a matter of doing things "the hard way", but rather "the RIGHT way"... :)

Later and good luck! OL JR :)
 
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because painting a rocket flat black is much more forgiving than gloss ... and you would probably use a lot less dull coat when applying it. The decals are are going to be dull anyway, so why does it matter if it goes goes over gloss?? They make a special decal solution that allows the decal to slide more freely. I think its called Microsol or something like that?

Microsol softens the decal film and allows it to "settle down" snugly to the surface of details like corrugations or such which would tend to hold the decal up off the surface and create a visible "air bubble" underneath it... it's typically used on plastic model planes where "rivets" and other surface features cast into the plastic complicate decal application. It's not for "allowing it to slide around easier"... that's what a drop of dish detergent in the water for waterslide decals is for... (that and wetting the surface the decal is being applied to). Microsol ALMOST "dissolves" the decal-- applying it to a decal and then trying to move it is VIRTUALLY CERTAIN to destroy a waterslide decal...

Technically speaking, microsol WOULD probably allow the decal to snug down tight enough to matte paint to eliminate the "silvering effect"... but why bother when you can simply paint the thing GLOSS black, put the decals on (which is easier with the smoother GLOSS surface than the "rougher" matte surface anyway) and then when everything is dry hit it with a coat of MATTE CLEARCOAT to get "dull" the paint down and make it look "real"...

Later! OL JR :)
 
Microsol softens the decal film and allows it to "settle down" snugly to the surface of details like corrugations or such which would tend to hold the decal up off the surface and create a visible "air bubble" underneath it... it's typically used on plastic model planes where "rivets" and other surface features cast into the plastic complicate decal application. It's not for "allowing it to slide around easier"... that's what a drop of dish detergent in the water for waterslide decals is for... (that and wetting the surface the decal is being applied to). Microsol ALMOST "dissolves" the decal-- applying it to a decal and then trying to move it is VIRTUALLY CERTAIN to destroy a waterslide decal...

Technically speaking, microsol WOULD probably allow the decal to snug down tight enough to matte paint to eliminate the "silvering effect"... but why bother when you can simply paint the thing GLOSS black, put the decals on (which is easier with the smoother GLOSS surface than the "rougher" matte surface anyway) and then when everything is dry hit it with a coat of MATTE CLEARCOAT to get "dull" the paint down and make it look "real"...

Later! OL JR :)


to each his own
 
Putting decals over dull coat results in the decals "silvering" from air trapped underneath the decal film by the matte finish of the paint, which itself is created by small "hills-n-valleys" in the surface of the paint, which scatter reflected light and makes the surface appear "dull", rather than "glossy" paints which flow out into a "near perfect" smooth glasslike surface. Decals applied over glossy surfaces will not (SHOULD not) have any trapped air underneath them (and yeah, while you put on waterslides with water, therefore there SHOULDN'T be trapped air even on matte finishes, when the water evaporates away, air takes it's place under the decal on matte finishes, leaving them looking "silvery" and standing out (fugly) on the surface of the model's paint). Decals put on glossy paint snug down firmly to the glass-like surface and "disappear" into the surface.

Once the decals are all on and look good, then a coat of "matte finish" clearcoat goes on over the glossy paint AND decals, both protecting the decals and underlying paint AND giving the "hills-n-valleys" finish that scatters light and makes the "dull" look of a matte finish...

Get it?? Not a matter of doing things "the hard way", but rather "the RIGHT way"... :)

Later and good luck! OL JR :)

after it done just burn it...use some lighter fluid...that would make it look realistic and the decal and the gloss finish won't matter anymore
 
after it done just burn it...use some lighter fluid...that would make it look realistic and the decal and the gloss finish won't matter anymore

Geesh... who peed in your cheerios this morning, Dan?? You've been busting chops and generally in a p!ssy mood in your posts throughout this build thread... I don't get it... having a bad day?? :confused2:

You asked a legitimate question, I tried to answer it. There is a REASON WHY using a gloss paint under decals looks MUCH BETTER and using a MATTE FINISH over the paint and decals looks and works much better. If there wasn't, I wouldn't post it.

I even went and drew a quick diagram in "paint" to show what I'm describing... this is a well-known modeling trick that goes back forever in plastic modeling...

If you don't want to accept it and do it whatever way you want, that's YOUR right and your decision, but that doesn't mean you're right and everyone else is WRONG either...

As you said, "to each his own"... :rolleyes:

Have a good one! OL JR :)
 
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Mushtang...you are doing a great job! I saved your Vostok build thread you did previously...lots of great tips for a newbie like me. ( and great tips from the other posters as well)...keep it up!
 
Hey guys, My two cent on the decals. Marc and Luke are dead on balls about putting waterslide decals over gloss paint. Thats the only way to do it without silvering. You want the end result to look like the decals are painted on . So they need to go over a nice glossy surface. Let them dry and overcoat with whatever finish you want and any hint of them being decals disapears. One thought though--I might know something about this-- your working in scale. So a MATT FINISH is'nt really what you want. While it looks great and hinds a world of flaws--by scale --you should do a satin finish-- esp with a black bird.While the paint is for all intents flat--the surface area is so large that it does carry a sheen. ---On a side note--a bit of trivia-- any of you guys know why WWII and later night fighters and bombers were painted gloss black? The answer might surprise some of you.
 
---On a side note--a bit of trivia-- any of you guys know why WWII and later night fighters and bombers were painted gloss black? The answer might surprise some of you.

The only nightfighter of WW2 that I can think of with a gloss black finish was the P-61 Blackwidow and that didn't come along til later in the war. The theory behind the gloss black was that it would reflect light away from the aircraft and render it invisible in the night sky. The biggest advantage of gloss over flat or matt finishes was in drag reduction. A WW2 aircraft would lose 5 to 10 percent off of its top speed due to its flat paint.
 
Now that all the paper had dried I needed to trim off the overlap and sand the edges smooth. I'm not sure if I did the paper exactly right or not - there was less than 1/16" of paper overlapping the balsa but maybe there shouldn't have been any and I did a bad job of gluing? I can't imagine that it possibly matters to the way the finished product looks so I'm not really worried about it.

Basically I just used a new blade in the hobby knife to cut the paper flush to the balsa, or as flush as I could get. There were a few places where the blade started to dig into the wood but I recovered without leaving any gashes.

Then I sanded all the edges as smooth as possible with some 330 grit paper.

For the edges that the nacelles will be glued I didn't want to sand unevenly, so I pulled out a new sheet of sand paper and set it down on the table and sanded the entire edge at once running the rocket back and forth while the paper laid flat. If I'd done it the other way around the edge wouldn't have touched the nacelle all the way down the edge. It's dang near impossible to sand a straight line any other way.

Here is the finished edge of the plane, and you can see all the trimmings piled up behind it.
29 edge prepped for gluing.jpg

I wish I'd taken some close up pictures of the "before" edge too. It looks much better after the sanding!!!
 
The double glue method was used to attach the nacelles. That sanded edge of the balsa soaked up a LOT of glue! I put down a thick bead and touched it to the nacelle, and then sat both down to dry for about 10 minutes. I checked it 5 minutes later and the glue was gone. Another light bead of glue on the edge, smeared with my finger, and that sucker was stuck on there quickly! I love how that works. Whoever came up with that deserves a cookie or something good.

I eyed the line between the wing and the center of the nacelle to make sure they lined up correctly the best I could. There's no handy guide for this. No shape printed in the instruction sheet to set the rocket on, no shape to cut out and set the rocket on to check the position, just using your best judgement. I think I did okay. Then I did the other nacelle and was happy with both.

After the glue dried on both of them for a half hour or so I added a fillet of glue for strength on the top side and let it set flat to dry. I've found that a lot of time on fins I'll add a fillet and if I leave the rocket standing up the glue will run down as it's drying and leave a lot more on the bottom half of the fin. For this rocket I could leave it sitting flat and fillet each side without the glue running down. After that dried I flipped it over and did that side. Each joint got two fillets of glue last night. I may add another before I'm done but they seem fairly strong.

It's really hard to see the joint in this picture because the paper is white, but here is a very exciting picture I took of the drying fillet.

30 fillet.jpg

Zzzz zzzz zzzz....
 
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