Quest motors VS Estes ?

[sodmeister]

I`ve never used Quest motors before ,always Estes (Quest were never really readily available online or locally) but I now deal with a great online store that has good prices on many LP items ,and Quest is one of them (not to mention Aerotech G-Forces for $84.99 Cdn)

How do the Quest motors differ from Estes ,any major differences ?

I also like that the Quest motors come with the Q igniters !

Thankyou

Paul T

[chadrog]

I've personally never flown them, but others in our club do. From what I've seen of them flying, there's nothing markedly different or exceptional that would make me pay more for them as opposed to Estes. Now if they could make a C6 Skidmark, that'd be a different story all together!

[chrism]

I use and have flown with both and I don't see a difference in performance. The Quest motors are usually cheaper to buy.

[BrianURocket]

I tried Quest. I like the ignitors and straw to hold them in, but other than that, I prefer Estes, maybe because I have more experience with them and didn't notice much difference. Estes engines are made in the US, Quest in China, so I prefer the Estes since price differential is minimal.

[gpoehlein]

The Chinese Quest motors can be interesting. They have a bit less of a thrust spike at the beginning (check out the thrust curves at NAR.org) but a bit longer thrust. They are smoker than Estes motors and are fantastic in clusters where the spike isn't as crucial to getting the rocket off the pad. Also, in certain circumstances, the A6-4 is really nice with the four second delay (again, in a cluster - the Ranger flies great on three A6-4 motors). Biggest downside is that Quest does not have the selection that Estes does - notably no B6-6 or C6-7 for two stage models.

[sodmeister]

I tried Quest. I like the ignitors and straw to hold them in, but other than that, I prefer Estes, maybe because I have more experience with them and didn't notice much difference. Estes engines are made in the US, Quest in China, so I prefer the Estes since price differential is minimal.

I did not know Quest was made in China.The Quest motors are cheaper than the Estes(minimal as you say) ,although that has no bearing in my purchase ,but I do like the igniters that come with them !


Paul T

[chadrog]

I've never seen a lower than Estes price on the Quest motors- everywhere I've seen them they are considerably more, Hobbylinc included.

[sodmeister]

The Chinese Quest motors can be interesting. They have a bit less of a thrust spike at the beginning (check out the thrust curves at NAR.org) but a bit longer thrust. They are smoker than Estes motors and are fantastic in clusters where the spike isn't as crucial to getting the rocket off the pad. Also, in certain circumstances, the A6-4 is really nice with the four second delay (again, in a cluster - the Ranger flies great on three A6-4 motors). Biggest downside is that Quest does not have the selection that Estes does - notably no B6-6 or C6-7 for two stage models.

It`s like you read my mind ,as I`m making some scratch cluster rockets for our smaller LP/HP field and Quest bulk packs came to mind ,although Estes has them also.

Going to need a whack of 18mm and 24mm motors !

I`ve never flown clusters ,so I`m pretty stoked about this !

Paul T

[sodmeister]

I've never seen a lower than Estes price on the Quest motors- everywhere I've seen them they are considerably more, Hobbylinc included.

The Quest motors are maybe .60 cents a pack cheaper in the 3 packs and a few bucks on the bulk packs ,here in Canada at least.

But then at the cost of reloads for HP over the season ,the price between Estes and Quest is not a factor

Paul T

[chadrog]

I see now... I wonder why I thought they were more? Maybe I was thinking of the hobbyshop price.

[jpummil]

Hobbylinc seems to indicate HAZ charge wit the quest stuff, but not Estes. Is that in error, or a difference in the igniter composition ?

[Rocketcrab]

gpoehlein is correct about the thrust spike of Quest motors. There are some models that I'd be hesitant to fly on a Quest C6 over an Estes C6, for example. The only other negative is that the ejection charges are somewhat "sooty" - if you are protective of your paint schemes you may not like them. But other than that, Quest motors are fun.

[southern rockets]

Buy American anytime you can!

That said in the 60's/70's when I was building Estes kits seems that there was or there is now a Canadian rocket/motor company. Is this a correct?

[sodmeister]

Buy American anytime you can!

That said in the 60's/70's when I was building Estes kits seems that there was or there is now a Canadian rocket/motor company. Is this a correct?

I think there was Canaroc based in Toronto back then ?

CTI/Cessaroni makes HP motors/reloads

ARG makes their own line of rocket kits ,sold under SIGMA.

Estes was always KING up here ,and still is.


Paul T

[sodmeister]

gpoehlein is correct about the thrust spike of Quest motors. There are some models that I'd be hesitant to fly on a Quest C6 over an Estes C6, for example. The only other negative is that the ejection charges are somewhat "sooty" - if you are protective of your paint schemes you may not like them. But other than that, Quest motors are fun.

Are the ejection charges made with a lot of "POP" ?


Paul T

[southern rockets]

I think there was Canaroc based in Toronto back then ?

CTI/Cessaroni makes HP motors/reloads

ARG makes their own line of rocket kits ,sold under SIGMA.

Estes was always KING up here ,and still is.


Paul T

Canaroc seems like the name! Thanks Sod. You shook loose some cobwebs. You happen to know how long or if any of the company survived? I'd just like to have some historical background since the space race was prevalent back then. Some one recent posted a link about NASA hiring surfboard makers back then.

[sodmeister]

Canaroc seems like the name! Thanks Sod. You shook loose some cobwebs. You happen to know how long or if any of the company survived? I'd just like to have some historical background since the space race was prevalent back then. Some one recent posted a link about NASA hiring surfboard makers back then.

From what I have also read ,Canaroc provided products to IRWIN toys and at some time became SMI (Space models International) based in Edmonton Alberta Canada.

Not sure how much of this is fact ,but perhaps someone will know more.

They also made motors ,but I`m sure they were manufactured by perhaps Estes ?


Paul T

[hcmbanjo]

Are the ejection charges made with a lot of "POP" ? Paul T

Well, they don't "bang" like some of the Estes shotgun ejections can.

In my experience, the Quest engines ejection charges are not as strong as in the current Estes engines.
The Quest ejections remind me more of the older Estes engines I'd flown years ago.
Just pack your wadding with a good seal, but not jammed in tight so the Quest ejection can blow out the wadding and parachute.
The Quest ejection charges work fine, just take your time packing the wadding and parachute.

The Quest engines can be sooty, out the back and inside the body tube from the ejection charge.
The pictures below show what was left after a flight. Both were Chinese made Quest B6-4 engines.
On the left are some Dr. Zooch flame fins. Granted these fins hang straight down behind the engine mount.
On the right my Quest Nike Smoke with a smoky front end.
Initially I was concerned thinking the fins were burned, but everything wiped off easily with a wet paper towel.

[Marc_G]

Paul- What's this website with great prices on Quest motors? Would it be worthwhile for us down here in the US?

I've been thinking to buy some Quest motors to round out my collection particularly for lower-spike, longer burn models as has been discussed here. I've got some D5 engines (love 'em, in the right birds).

Getting the Q2G2 ignitors with them would be icing on the cake.

Marc

[gpoehlein]

I'd say the soot is probably from the coast phase rather than the boost - Quest motors are seriously smoky during the coast. Certainly makes them easier to track, though. And for cluster flight, the Q2G2 igniters can't be beat - just be careful what launcher you use (Estes will light off the igniter when the key is inserted, Quest and Aerotech launch controllers work fine with them).

As to the whole American made issue - in this case I understand the reasons behind the decision. My understanding is that at one time, Quest made their own motors. However, there was an explosion in their motor making facility. I don't know if anyone was hurt or killed in the explosion (I was not in the hobby then), but the decision was made to shut down their own facilities and buy the motors from another company that makes motors. Now, as I understand it, there aren't that many companies that make motors worldwide. Some are fireworks companies (the company in Germany that Quest used to buy from and the company in China where they currently buy from) and I don't know about the Czech company that makes motors for some of the eastern European fliers, but the only company here in the US that currently makes motors is Estes. I'm guessing that Quest didn't want to buy from their major competitor, so they pretty much had to go off-shore. It is a global economy after all. I have no problem using Chinese or German motors (funny that some people never had a problem using the German made motors, but now that they're made in China, it's an issue - but I won't get into THAT argument).

[sodmeister]

Paul- What's this website with great prices on Quest motors? Would it be worthwhile for us down here in the US?

I've been thinking to buy some Quest motors to round out my collection particularly for lower-spike, longer burn models as has been discussed here. I've got some D5 engines (love 'em, in the right birds).

Getting the Q2G2 ignitors with them would be icing on the cake.

Marc

Marc ,I doubt it would be worthwhile at all.What with shipping and the fact that motors cannot be shipped over the US/Canadian border.Also US/Canadian exchange rate would make it even less worthwhile I think.I don`t think the price of motors up here is less than in the US ,Estes or Quest.

Its called Canadian Discount Model Rocket Store.

The owner Pavel Denau is a great person to deal with.He is definately customer oriented !!

Paul T

[GDJ]

I've tried Quest C6-5 engines on my Big Bertha. They seem to work well, but the apogee might be a touch higher with the Quest C6's vs. the Estes C6's simply because of the longer burntime with the Quest motors. However, the sustained thrust of the Quest engines is a bit less than the Estes, which favors higher thrust with a shorter burn time.

All-in-all, IMHO, both engines work well, and they are pretty much equal at the end of the day.

I would use the Estes Engines as a booster, then use the Quest engines as the upper stage motor. The two would compliment each other very well in that application.

[GDJ]

From what I have also read ,Canaroc provided products to IRWIN toys and at some time became SMI (Space models International) based in Edmonton Alberta Canada.

Not sure how much of this is fact ,but perhaps someone will know more.

They also made motors ,but I`m sure they were manufactured by perhaps Estes ?


Paul T

Actually I believe Canaroc was a division of Irwin Toys, and they did have a shop/factory here in Edmonton.

As for the motors, I am uncertain. I didn't purchase Canaroc engines after I had 3 CATO's in a row. I stayed away from the engines and favored Estes for the reliability. The Canaroc kits however were pricier than the Estes kits, but were very well made kits. Richer kids had the Canaroc kits, poorer ones had Estes and Centuri kits.
But this was in 1980 to 1982, and Canaroc disappeared not long after that.

[sodmeister]

I'd say the soot is probably from the coast phase rather than the boost - Quest motors are seriously smoky during the coast. Certainly makes them easier to track, though. And for cluster flight, the Q2G2 igniters can't be beat - just be careful what launcher you use (Estes will light off the igniter when the key is inserted, Quest and Aerotech launch controllers work fine with them).

As to the whole American made issue - in this case I understand the reasons behind the decision. My understanding is that at one time, Quest made their own motors. However, there was an explosion in their motor making facility. I don't know if anyone was hurt or killed in the explosion (I was not in the hobby then), but the decision was made to shut down their own facilities and buy the motors from another company that makes motors. Now, as I understand it, there aren't that many companies that make motors worldwide. Some are fireworks companies (the company in Germany that Quest used to buy from and the company in China where they currently buy from) and I don't know about the Czech company that makes motors for some of the eastern European fliers, but the only company here in the US that currently makes motors is Estes. I'm guessing that Quest didn't want to buy from their major competitor, so they pretty much had to go off-shore. It is a global economy after all. I have no problem using Chinese or German motors (funny that some people never had a problem using the German made motors, but now that they're made in China, it's an issue - but I won't get into THAT argument).

Ironic really ,when you consider the Chinese invented blackpowder

I scrapped all my Estes igniters and bought a buttload of Quest igniters !

Maybe I`ll buy a few and give them a test drive

Paul T

[sodmeister]

Actually I believe Canaroc was a division of Irwin Toys, and they did have a shop/factory here in Edmonton.

As for the motors, I am uncertain. I didn't purchase Canaroc engines after I had 3 CATO's in a row. I stayed away from the engines and favored Estes for the reliability. The Canaroc kits however were pricier than the Estes kits, but were very well made kits. Richer kids had the Canaroc kits, poorer ones had Estes and Centuri kits.
But this was in 1980 to 1982, and Canaroc disappeared not long after that.

I thought you would know that ,thanks for the info !

In the 1980s I was pretty heavy into broads and cars ,seems like I missed a lot of cool stuff and history

I became a BAR in 2000 ,and never looked back


Paul T (still love broads....er...a ..ladies)

Frank Sinatra loved broads too

[Quixote]

Canaroc started operations in Edmonton Alberta in April/May 1973 with the introduction of the Black Brant III, IV, and V series, as well as the Orion IV and Nomad Glider. They made a big splash at CARNAT 1 in August of 73.

In 1975/76 they had made arrangements with AVI Astroport for the relabeling of the AVI/MPC black powder motors which were marketed in Canada about that period under the Canaroc name, after AVI folded, Canaroc picked up the AVI pad and Launch controller and after some retooling developed their own "Transapad" and Launch Controller.

Around 1978 Canaroc developed their own brand of Composite motors, again these were manufactured in Edmonton, and I was able to see their manufacturing facility and kit packing plant that summer. To increase market penetration Canaroc made a marketing deal with Irwin Toys in Toronto which lasted from 1979 till 1981. Irwin dropped the line, and Canaroc resurfaced as Space Models International which ran for about a year or so then folded operations in late 1982 /1983.

The Canaroc Composite motors did not use APCP, but a less energetic concoction that could be cast and cured in an oven, they were all case bonded coreburners, and interestingly the original Paper cased ones from 1978-1979 worked better than the later plastic cased ones that were prone to burn through at the cast nozzle case interface. I still periodically fly some of the older ones, and an Edmonton Rocket club member gave out a pile of old Canaroc motors to flyers at July 2010 Alberta Annual Rocket Meet (ARRM 40). I even used them in streamer duration competition and they function perfectly after 30 + years of storage.

Now regarding Quest motors, the A6-4 is an awesome motor for school/scout workshops, the extra delay is perfect for Alpha/Astra equivalent models, and I do like the extra smoky exhaust. The Q2G2 igniters are excellent for clustering, and I would use them exclusively for that.

It is great to hear that Quest is seeing some distribution in Canada, long overdue, I have ordered kits and parts direct from Pagosa Springs but to date no motors, as the cost of an import permit is prohibitively high and would necessitates a purchase in the order of 1500 motors to make it worth while.

I would agree with previous comments about clustering, a triple Quest C6-5 in a SEMROC Ranger would be an awesome flight, that is why I miss FSI and their old E6 and F7 motors, they were so cool in clusters.

Garth

[GDJ]

Thanks for clearing some misconceptions up Garth. Some information was non-existent on the web regarding Canaroc, and some info I had was 9th-hand-passed-down from somebody that knew somebody.........yadda yadda yadda. You know what it's like.

[sodmeister]

Indeed ,thanks for the info Garth !


Paul T

[luke strawwalker]

I bought a pretty big mess of Quest motors a year or so ago on a special. They're okay but not "all that". Honestly I prefer the Estes motors.

Took me three dinged rockets from "partial deploys" (nose cone popped off but everything else still stuck in the end of the tube) to figure out that the ejection charge is maybe "half" what an Estes ejection charge is, at MOST. People thumb their noses at Estes "shotgun" ejection charges, but lemme tell ya, Quest "flea fart" ejection charges are worse when your rocket comes in hot due to the laundry not coming out. (and yeah, I prepped the rocket IDENTICALLY to how I do it with Estes motors and haven't had the Estes motor fail to deploy everything in recent memory... using both 20 year old Estes motors and newly purchased ones.)

The first of the "long burn" Quest C6's we flew (me and another club guy) in his Estes Metalizer (with the plastic lock-ring motor mount), the casing got SO HOT during the flight that when we got the rocket back and he went to remove the motor, found it had softened/melted the plastic ring enough to weld it to the motor casing... I told him to let it cool thoroughly and then gently wiggle the casing til it turned loose from the ring, hopefully without cracking it. The casing itself got SO HOT that it "carmelized" the white paper motor label, turning it a chocolate brown... we split the casing lengthwise and found that the thinner casing was VERY VERY CLOSE to burning through, as evidenced by VERY DARK brown "char spots" on the carmelized motor label. The Quest casings are thinner than Estes and combining this with the "longer burn" is NOT a good thing IMHO...

The fact that the motor is longer burning but with the same overall propulsive power (total impulse) means that the motors have a lower overall thrust. SO, while they'll just go and go with a lightweight streamlined rocket and really put it up there, for a heavier, draggier rocket, they seem rather underpowered... sorta stagger into the air... SO basically *I* wouldn't recommend them in heavier, draggier rockets that would fly perfectly fine on an "equivalent" Estes motor...

SO, basically I'm going to have to build some "motor burners" for these Quest motors... I don't trust them enough to fly them in my Dr. Zooch rockets and scratchbuilts... Don't get me wrong, they're fun motors and it's good to have choices, but realize their weaknesses and differences and use that information accordingly.

LOVE the Q2G2 ignitors... not as crazy about the "straw" method of holding the ignitor in-- I think the Estes "plug tacks" are better... but they work adequately and they ARE neat that they protect the pyrogen in storage. Too bad Estes hasn't come out with and equivalent ignitor to the Q2G2...

JMHO and experience...

Later! OL JR

[sodmeister]

I`m pretty much leaning towards good old Estes me thinks...hey ,I`ve been using them since the 70s ,never had a problem with them then or now.

I have a few birds that need to be sent skyward ,canary in a coalmine kinda thing ,so I`ll try out a pack or two of Quest motors and see for myself.

I do sure like those Quest igniters though.

Didn`t George Washington once say "In Estes we trust" ?


Paul T