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billspad said:
My problem has never been getting enough current to the igniters. It's getting the igniters in the right spot with my fat fingers.
Click to expand...

6'-2" 350lbs....I hear ya!

One of the reasons I always use the Wadding ball/tape method prepping cluster motors MMX & UP. Takes all the fight out of wondering if you have the igniter wire in contact with the propellant.

Drat! page-2 of the 4motor cluster igniter installation is to larger. I've substituted simple wadding-ball tape single motor installation...works exactly the same with the motors already inserted in the model. Not all clusters need to have the motors installed first, Only those with long swept back fins the get in the way when taping. Hope this helps.

MM 226b6g3_4 motor cluster install 8pic pg-1_09-18-09.jpg

11-sm_8pic Wadding Ball install Pg_03-26-06.jpg
 
John,
Do you think the bare nichrome with wadding/tape method will work with my 4-motor cluster using a non-relay launch controller? I'm currently using a Pratt Hobbies Go Box controller with a 12 volt 7amp gel cell. I'm not sure if I would have enough current. If not, would a smaller gauge wire be better? Also, will any kind of 30 gauge (or higher) bare nichrome wire work for the igniters. I found this on eBay.

thanks,

Peter
 
peter_stanley said:
John,
Do you think the bare nichrome with wadding/tape method will work with my 4-motor cluster using a non-relay launch controller? I'm currently using a Pratt Hobbies Go Box controller with a 12 volt 7amp gel cell. I'm not sure if I would have enough current. If not, would a smaller gauge wire be better? Also, will any kind of 30 gauge (or higher) bare nichrome wire work for the igniters. I found this on eBay.

thanks,

Peter
Click to expand...

Peter:
30ga (.0100"dia) bare Nichrome is my first choice for MMX igniters. I use them over all others for everything except clusters.

To be as direct as I can. I also Use a Hobbico 7amp/hr 12volt gel-cell for almost all my micro flying if away from our large club launches. It is the battery used with my Rangebox relay system for just about all clusters up to 8no matter what range i'm on. The battery has the power, the problem is the distance between the battery and the igniters and the lag time taken heating the wire.
Dougs Go Box controller is a wonderful little system, I've used one on several occasions and it is touted as being useful for cluster ignition....However this system was devised & designed around Estes solar igniters, That is pyrogen tipped iginters, So i'm afraid the short answer to your question is Not very reliably! Can it work...Sure! will it work each time..not likely.

Somewhat better 2 & 3 motor ignition has been had with a Nitrocelluose Lacquer coated (dipped) 30ga nichrome. but there again until we get the power to the launcher side of the system there is a lag time in igniter heating. It is this wire heating Lag, minute differences in the time taken to bring the BP up to ignition temp and amount of first motion travel that make Cluster ignition with bare nichrome so Iffy.
Two motor clusters No biggie; Three motors..things start getting a bit tougher...4 motors much harder.

I've gone as thin as 38gauge which is far to thin for use even as bridge wires. 34 or 32ga might help a little but they also burn though quicker sometimes before lighting the BP.

The Wadding ball/tape method will ensure the igniter stays in place as long as it can before being dislodged by movement under the power of the early lighting motor(s) but differences in heating still make 4 motor clusters less then a sure thing. The further away our power supply the less likely all well ignite or go as planned. Relay ignition systems and/or low current pyrogen tipped igniters really take much of the fight out of clustering. That is why Quests Q2g2 igniters have made such a difference in larger motor cluster ignition:) Sure wish Mr. Stine had continued to dip the Micro Maxx motor igniters....alas we'll have to continue doing it ourselves for clusters.
 
Last edited:
Micromeister said:
Peter:
30ga (.0100"dia) bare Nichrome is my first choice for MMX igniters. I use them over all others for everything except clusters.

To be as direct as I can. I also Use a Hobbico 7amp/hr 12volt gel-cell for almost all my micro flying if away from our large club launches. It is the battery used with my Rangebox relay system for just about all clusters up to 8no matter what range i'm on. The battery has the power, the problem is the distance between the battery and the igniters and the lag time taken heating the wire.
Dougs Go Box controller is a wonderful little system, I've used one on several occasions and it is touted as being useful for cluster ignition....However this system was devised & designed around Estes solar igniters, That is pyrogen tipped iginters, So i'm afraid the short answer to your question is Not very reliably! Can it work...Sure! will it work each time..not likely.

Somewhat better 2 & 3 motor ignition has been had with a Nitrocelluose Lacquer coated (dipped) 30ga nichrome. but there again until we get the power to the launcher side of the system there is a lag time in igniter heating. It is this wire heating Lag, minute differences in the time taken to bring the BP up to ignition temp and amount of first motion travel that make Cluster ignition with bare nichrome so Iffy.
Two motor clusters No biggie; Three motors..things start getting a bit tougher...4 motors much harder.

I've gone as thin as 38gauge which is far to thin for use even as bridge wires. 34 or 32ga might help a little but they also burn though quicker sometimes before lighting the BP.

The Wadding ball/tape method will ensure the igniter stays in place as long as it can before being dislodged by movement under the power of the early lighting motor(s) but differences in heating still make 4 motor clusters less then a sure thing. The further away our power supply the less likely all well ignite or go as planned. Relay ignition systems and/or low current pyrogen tipped igniters really take much of the fight out of clustering. That is why Quests Q2g2 igniters have made such a difference in larger motor cluster ignition:) Sure wish Mr. Stine had continued to dip the Micro Maxx motor igniters....alas we'll have to continue doing it ourselves for clusters.
Click to expand...

John, thanks for all the info you've shared. I think I'll be making a trip to Radio Shack soon.
 
9383FAAE-68EA-4999-BD6A-A54C7620360A.PNG


Against good judgement I made a third launch attempt (I was bored waiting for the phone company to fix my DSL). I had four Q2G2 igniters left, so I dipped the tips in pyrogen. I then attempted a wadding tape method, which I think worked fine, but probably taped them in too well, and my retention method was lame.

IMG_1409.JPG


IMG_1411.JPG


I wired them up and used my Go Box. All igniters lit, but only three motors fired, and they didn't all fire at once. It got hung on the pad while the first two burned. Then the other two igniters lit, with one motor firing, and the other pulling out too early. At this point it left the pad.

I really need to build the relay launcher. (And order more igniters and motors) The three motors that fired blew out of the back too, so my retention method needs work. I don't have enough spacing to wrap tape around the motors and mounts. I have some tiny screws and nuts than might work. I would need to dremel off the head of a screw and glue between the four motor tubes, then screw a nut on after the motors are installed. I haven't checked the fits yet, but is what I'm going to look at next.

Here's slow motion video from two cameras.
 

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