Real Altitude Records????

[CPUTommy]

Kinda like my brain, There is alwalys a conversation happening inside.....

Too bad im only able to catch a few words between them...

Weird....


How about altitude records for body tubes?

Is there a Speed record for same body tubes?

Ive seen motor records... but dont know how some of them could be accurate..

It seems like one guy has 1200 feet and another guy with The same motor has a totally diffrent number. I can see a few hundred feet, due to building technics and launch conditions but this much of a diffrence??? And at those numbers 1218 feet for an E9 ? Maybe a big birtha...Something smaller? Cant see it even being close..

Example:
E9-6 Estes E9-6 1218 ft May 15/05 CC Express Onboard Altimeter used
E9-8 3335 ft Dec.7/02 Screamin Eagle
E9-8 Estes E9-8 1781 ft Sept.26/06 Lightning Bolt Onboard Altimeter used
E9-8 Estes E9-8 1422 ft Apr.9/11 Estes Phoenix Bird

http://www.mts.net/~rns/URR/All-time...ecords-ALL.htm

Happy Monday~
Tom

[Peter Olivola]

I competed and trophied in two altitude events at NARAM's in 1993 (1/2A X 3 cluster) and 1994 (D.) The differences from first to the mean were just as great. In addition to build differences there is substantial variation in motor performance. The combination produces a wide range of results. Unless you're Bob Kreutz or Trip Barber and have a gravity suspension field to play with.

[Blakkzakk]

Most of my Micromaxx models will outdo the 35' listed. I have one that should beat the 243' listed for 1/8 A.

[bobkrech]

NAR Records Rules

C 1/8A Alt 82 m 3/19/05 Bruce Markielewski

T E Alt 1387 m 5/11/85 Lou Dick Tm

NAR Record MicroMax = 1/8 A = 285'

NAR Record 20 < E <= 40 Ns = 4551'

Record holding competition rockets are usually purpose built and rarely kits.

Bob

[Blakkzakk]

The real challenge with a MMX altitude rocket is finding it afterwards. LOL

[bobkrech]

Accurate altitude measurements can be obtained without electronics in the rocket using 3 theodolites which has been the traditional way NAR record altitudes were determinted before small accurate inexpensive lightweight electronic altimeters were avallable. A new record class using electronic altimeters has been started and will eventually replace theotolite measurements which requires at least 4 people to operate: three operators (and ideally eaach with an assistants) and 1 central data recorder (with one assistant preferred).

Accurate velocity measurements can not be made without electronics: either a high resolution altimeter with multiple sensors, or a RF transmitter in the rocket and dopppler receiver on the ground, or some kind of radar systerm, and none of these methods were readily available or even affordable in the past so there are no official model rocketry speed records at present, and IMO I doubt there will be in the near future.

Bob

[CPUTommy]

NAR Record MicroMax = 1/8 A = 285'

NAR Record 20 < E <= 40 Ns = 4551'

Record holding competition rockets are usually purpose built and rarely kits.

Bob

I wonder why Estes or Quest never went down that path. They sell/produce the kits and have XXXX many out there, Why not have a standard the build has to consist of?

(Like a pine wood derby car)

Sounds like a friendly bit of competition that could be had between ALL rocket manfactures and motor companys.

Getting more involved is alwalys a good thing.

A framed award would look nice on the wall ?
"Fastest Kit MFG 2012"
XXX Mph
.35 Mach

Just a thought...

[Peter Olivola]

There's no need for any manufacturer to go down that path. If someone wants to organize an altitude competition using Big Bertha's they're free to do so.

I wonder why Estes or Quest never went down that path. They sell/produce the kits and have XXXX many out there, Why not have a standard the build has to consist of?

(Like a pine wood derby car)

Sounds like a friendly bit of competition that could be had between ALL rocket manfactures and motor companys.

Getting more involved is alwalys a good thing.

A framed award would look nice on the wall ?
"Fastest Kit MFG 2012"
XXX Mph
.35 Mach

Just a thought...

[JPVegh]

There's no need for any manufacturer to go down that path. If someone wants to organize an altitude competition using Big Bertha's they're free to do so.

Actually the manufacturer would benefit through higher sales. It would be a sales gimick. Run an informal contest with a wide range of events for a specific model and issue cheap certificates as a prize. Big Bertha Altitude, BB duration, BB EL, BB spot landing... How about a National Big Bertha Month? National launch a Big Bertha day?

OK, maybe that's a bit too outside of the box.

[bobkrech]

Tommy

The population of Muskeget beach voles (species Microtus breweri) on Muskeget Island, Massachutts, the only known habitat, averages around 7,000 and qualifies for listing under the U.S. Endangered Species Act. The number of Americans belonging to NAR and/or TRA is less than that, so if rocket hobbyists were considered a subspecies, we qualify to be listed as an Endangered Species.

We are less than 0.002% of the population, or about 1 in 52,000 but each year about 250,000 folks, or 0.8% of the pouplation, will purchase and fly a rocket, primariily for 4-H, scouts, CAP, TARC, SLI and other youth group, to get a certificate, merit badge, achievement award or money prizes.

• Facts of Life are most folks who buy, build and launch a rocket or two don't stick around
• Most if not all of these folks will not spend money to spend $100-$150 on an altimeter with both an accelorometer and barometer.
• >90% of Estes rocket kit and >50% of Quest's rockets kits are probably purchased by these folks
• Hobbyists however purchase 50% to 75% of the engine production
• Estes and Quest do support the hardcore hobbyist by supplying advertising sup[port to NAR and TRA, and contribute a lot to the serious hobbyists
• Dozens of smaller specialty companies supply the majority of the enthusiasts' market
• These vendors are very generous in their support of the hobby supplying advertising dollars and many freebies to the hobby
• 95% of the hobbyists are sport flyiers and don't care about competition
• about 300 hardcore NAR members compete at some time in a year in official model rocket competitions
• about 4.000-6,000 7th-12th graders participaet in TARC AIA/NAR model rocket competition each year
• about 500-1000 high school and college students are NASA/NAR High Power SLI participants
• half of the serious hobbyists are high power certified and represent only 0.001% or a mere 10 per 1,000,000 of the population
• high power flyiers spend the really big money for big motors, big rockets and electronics capable of Mach speed and Mach speed determination
• both NAR and TRA are persuing electronic based performance records for high power rockets and that where's the future bragging rights area

Bob

[CPUTommy]

Given the odds of people in Massachusetts How many people KNOW where DB's Golden Banana is ? How many people have heard of it, and how many people have been there..

Three numbers, Same place... Its a shame we cant turn THOSE numbers into this hobbys numbers...Knowing is half the battle...

And by the way, Isnt Massachusetts a beautiful place ???? Hopefully we wil get some casino's built soon,


Tom

[JStarStar]

Actually the manufacturer would benefit through higher sales. It would be a sales gimick. Run an informal contest with a wide range of events for a specific model and issue cheap certificates as a prize. Big Bertha Altitude, BB duration, BB EL, BB spot landing... How about a National Big Bertha Month? National launch a Big Bertha day?

OK, maybe that's a bit too outside of the box.

It's a fun idea but it would be pretty hard to administer, plus you get into factors like "how much modification is allowed," etc etc.

Plus, to do altitude events without altimeters, you need fairly experienced and proficient tracking crews, with adequate thedolites, none of which are available to the huge majority of casual flyers. Duration and spot landing contests can be run a bit more simply but still require a fair amount of organization.

If competition appeals to you, getting involved in NAR activities is probably the best way to go.

But sure, even small clubs could do "Bertha Days" or "Alpha Days," etc etc.

As kind of a crossover to the Beginners and Educational Forum, if you have a whole class building the same particular model, using motors out of the same bulk pack, running informal contests could be a fun way to liven up the launches.

[JPVegh]

It's a fun idea but it would be pretty hard to administer, plus you get into factors like "how much modification is allowed," etc etc.

Plus, to do altitude events without altimeters, you need fairly experienced and proficient tracking crews, with adequate thedolites, none of which are available to the huge majority of casual flyers. Duration and spot landing contests can be run a bit more simply but still require a fair amount of organization.

If competition appeals to you, getting involved in NAR activities is probably the best way to go.

But sure, even small clubs could do "Bertha Days" or "Alpha Days," etc etc.

As kind of a crossover to the Beginners and Educational Forum, if you have a whole class building the same particular model, using motors out of the same bulk pack, running informal contests could be a fun way to liven up the launches.

Hehe... My original post was meant to be somewhat tongue in cheek. Of course the logistics of such contests would be... difficult. Though I like the idea of, "Bertha days", complete with a Bertha parade, a best looking Bertha contest, a Bertha bash and finished off with the Bertha Days Dance and Social... Damn tongue just won't stay out of my cheek today...