Hi all,
After more than a year planning to do this, I'm cloning the Estes Starship Vega, kit KC-4.
[oops, gotta run for a minute, be back soon]
You have always been here
Hi all,
After more than a year planning to do this, I'm cloning the Estes Starship Vega, kit KC-4.
[oops, gotta run for a minute, be back soon]
"If at first you don't succeed, Scream and Leap!"
NAR member 92906
Senior Member
One of my favorites! Post pics please!
You have always been here
Sorry about the false start. My wife came home and needed some help scanning stuff relating to starting a new job. That got priority for a little while!
OK, on to the build thread.
I've had three rocketry phases in my life: When I was a little guy in camp, again in high school, and now as an adult just about to enter midlife crisis mode.
From my earlier phases in rocketry (30+ years ago!), two rockets survive. A Nike Ajax and a Starship Vega. My Vega is pictured here:
After a few launches, apparently non-destructive, it spent 20 years on a shelf in my childhood room. Eventually my parents moved, and I packed it up and put it into a plastic box with packing paper support, and it sat in my basement for another 5 years. Then finally I started up with rocketry again and took it out.
I replaced the shock cord (which was in fragments) and launched it a couple more times. Then my wife put my range box on top of it in the trunk.:evil: I was able to massage it back into shape; the damage was not severe, but I've basically retired it.
The astute observers on the forum will note that the rocket pictured is not KC-4 model but actually the number 1320 revised version from the early 1980s. This is a bit of a cheaper model that doesn't include nose cones on the fins. Instead, there were decals to be placed where the cones would be... I didn't understand the concept and put them on wrong, sort of bridging the fin to the strut pods.
This is where the rose colored memories come in. I recall very clearly those decals over the fin pods, but in my mind this model always had nose cones there, even when I was a kid and didn't know of the existence of the earlier KC-4 kit.
So it is time to build a new one, that will be part of my active fleet. This one will be the much nicer looking one with nose cones on the fins.
Last edited by Marc_G; 8th February 2012 at 03:36 AM.
"If at first you don't succeed, Scream and Leap!"
NAR member 92906
You have always been here
My adult BAR phase started in the spring of 2010; I found TRF and YORF shortly after that. And so, it begins.
By that fall of 2010, I had found Excelsior for decals. In an order to Gordy I had him include the decal set for the Starship Vega. He did a beautiful job. Pictures will be forthcoming of the set.
But other things took precedence. The project sat for a while I learned, honed my skills, and plotted.
I gradually began building my own non-kit rockets, and became comfortable with the process. SEMROC became my friend and I found the JimZ plans site.
Though I had planned to "scratch build" (using existing components) this bird, including the fins, the urge to buy the precut fins from SEMROC was too great. I placed an order for the fins and cone early last spring (2011).
In a twist of fate, the SEMROC number for the Starship Vega finset was very similar to one for the Vigilante finset, and SEMROC mis-shipped me the Vigilante fins instead. This lead to a distraction from the Vega project as I researched and built the Vigilante. If you haven't built one, you gotta. It's a classic two-stager. I did it up in yellow and black per the classic style, and it's a favorite of mine, though beat up from some hard landings.
Of course the good folks at SEMROC sent me the correct finset promptly, but my flighty interest had moved on, taking a while to return to the Vega project.
I've gradually collected most of what I need. I think I'm just a few dowels away from having it all, so I'll get started.
Tomorrow, if time allows, I'll spread out the components and begin the build. I'll document the build here. There may be a few changes (upgrades!) but it will be a pretty faithful rendition of the Starship Vega, as my rose colored memories say it must be, complete with fin-cones.
With every build, I set some goals, aside from just having fun. What I want to work on here is getting the fins on nice and straight and at the right angles and such, and properly finishing the fillets and joints between the cones and the fins, better than I usually do. I want this to be a kicking rocket.
I'm not planning on doing anything special paint-wise. I've been learning with acrylics recently, which has been great fun and a good cold-weather inside painting opportunity, but I expect I'll just break out the white lacquer for the Vega. She's monotone white except for the decals.
Wish me luck. I'm really quite excited about this build!
Marc
"If at first you don't succeed, Scream and Leap!"
NAR member 92906
Member
Marc - I'm really looking forward to following your build! You always post interesting stuff and I've learned a lot from you and all the other experienced modellers on TRF.
The hobby shop I frequented as a kid in the '70s had a nicely-finished Starship Vega hanging from the ceiling. I always thought - someday... Even my brother, who built tons more rockets than me, never got around to building one. Then, as now, my rocket collection consisted mostly of simple, sturdy rockets that flew well and didn't get easily damaged. My goal this year is to branch out into some more complex and skill-intensive builds.
So I can't wait to see how your Starship Vega takes shape. It's already reminding me of all those well-thumbed Estes catalogs I had as a kid.
You have always been here
Dean- Thanks for the compliments! I hope the build will be interesting!
I've got most of the parts collected. Here's the spread, with SEMROC part labels still on lots of them:
You will notice there are no recovery components yet, other than the kevlar cord and a pair of steel fishing leaders; not sure which size leader will be best yet. I think the parachute from my original Vega is OK still (I re-rigged the cords when I took it out of storage); maybe I will use it in this bird.
I haven't obtained nose weights yet. What weight is NCW-1? There are two of them in the kit.
Under the instructions on the right you will see some decals peeking out. I bought these from Gordy at Excelsior. Here is a detail shot:
It comes with a foil wrap. Somehow Gordy made a shiny foil wrap with black detail. It's nice and reflective. Close up:
These are top notch, beautiful decals. Vibrant colors.
The nose cones from SEMROC are the usual top quality cones, very nice.
The body tube (BT-50) and fin pod tubes (BT-5) need to be cut. I've got stock from BMS and I think BRS for the BT-5.
"If at first you don't succeed, Scream and Leap!"
NAR member 92906
You have always been here
Im thinking about doing some sort of spring action shock absorber in the landing struts. Anybody else done something like this?
Marc
"If at first you don't succeed, Scream and Leap!"
NAR member 92906
Master Scrap Maker
The QModeling version has them. I have yet to 'stick the landing'. It is a cool feature, tho. I think with the right size chute you really shouldn't need them, not to mention the spring takes up a good bit of room. Attached is the OR file that I have made that approximates the QM design. (Upscaled a bit)Originally Posted by Marc_G
Terry
NAR L1
2013: 1 E-16, 1 E-9, and a B6-4... I'm way behind
You have always been here
T-Rex... thanks for the .ork. I'll take a look.
Meanwhile, I've got the mount in. I used Titebond II. Simple affair:
1. Squeeze some glue into a spiral in the tube, an inch and half or so down. I don't bother to use a qtip to smooth it out or anything. The key thing is to use plenty of glue so it doesn't all soak in and lock while inserting the mount.
2. Insert motor mount not quite far enough to hit the glue. Squeeze some glue around the aft end of the tube in three or four places.
3. Insert mount rest of the way, using a twisting motion, so glue gets spread around tube while insertion is happening. In this case I had a brief pause as the rear centering ring aligned with the tube and went in, but because there was plenty of glue, things were well-lubricated and there was no lock. I stopped it right where I wanted it to be:
4. Done. Sit vertically for a day or so for the glue to dry. I did check with penlight and saw a nice fillet of glue around the forward centering ring, quite uniform, and it made me happy.
"If at first you don't succeed, Scream and Leap!"
NAR member 92906
Senior Member
Cool! She's getting there.
later, Forrest "Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality." -- Nikola Tesla, Modern Mechanics and Inventions, July, 1934
You have always been here
Last night I glued the rings onto 2" dowel sections. The rings and dowel material were purchased from SEMROC.
I started with a tiny bit of glue at the appropriate points, pushed on the rings, added a bit more glue after the first dabs set up a bit. Here's a picture:
After that was dry, I used some TMTG around the mating points for the rings and dowels, and some Carpenter's wood glue around the bottom ring and up a millimeter or two on the dowel, to get a good hard coating to survive landing impacts.
I swabbed some Titebond II around the insides of the fin pod tubes, then pushed the ring/dowel assemblies through (causing a fillet to form around the upper ring where it meets the tube). I then pushed the tube onto the fin nose cone and made sure everything was seated straight. Repeat process for the other two.
(oops, I uploaded the wrong picture... see below after some text)
I put a dab of glue on the underside of the bottom most ring and put on the little disc that makes the bottom of the landing strut assemblies. Here are some pics of the build-complete rocket:
There will still be some filleting to do on the inside of the tube pods (tomorrow...) and I've added some CWF to rough or low spots I found on the fins. I'll sand that down tomorrow as well.
Last edited by Marc_G; 25th February 2012 at 01:56 AM.
"If at first you don't succeed, Scream and Leap!"
NAR member 92906
You have always been here
My experience with the aluminum paint is it wont look good brushed. Gonna need to spray.
"If at first you don't succeed, Scream and Leap!"
NAR member 92906
You have always been here
Yes, it's a waterside decal with a foil-looking surface and black grid lines. Maybe just special silver ALPS ink, not sure. Check with Gordy at Excelsior. It's exquisite.
"If at first you don't succeed, Scream and Leap!"
NAR member 92906
You have always been here
That's better.
I used a trashbag with tiny holes in it, and stuck the landing struts through the holes. A little masking tape held things in place.
Couple squirts of Lustrekote aluminum colored lacquer paint. Let dry a few minutes. Lather rinse repeat. I think I put on three coats total over half an hour. Done.
Here are some pics:
If you think you see a partial fingerprint on the side of the left hand foot pad, <makes Jedi mind trick hand motion> It's just a coincidence.
And because the foil wrap waterslide decal generated so much interest, here's a closeup without flash so you can see how it shines in reflected light.
I'll PM Gordy and see if he cares to comment on how it was made. I just stand in awe of his work.
Marc
PS: I've got some cleanup to do around the base of the nosecone; the masking I used there didn't come off cleanly. Then it's clear coat time. I'll wait for a low humidity day. It will be Valspar high-gloss lacquer. Fog. Let dry. Fog. Let dry. and so on.
Marc
Last edited by Marc_G; 21st March 2012 at 02:18 AM.
"If at first you don't succeed, Scream and Leap!"
NAR member 92906
Cone Maker, Decal Maker
Unfortunately the printers I have that are capable of just that are currently on there way to Japan to be fixed.
Wait about a month.
"I'm a sandman. I've never killed anyone. I terminate runners when their time is up." Logan from "Logan's Run"
http://excelsiorrocketry.com/
You have always been here
Eventually I got a day with minimal humidity (<50% RH, at about 65 degrees F).
I laid on two misty gloss coats all around, which gave the rocket a slightly pebbly gloss surface and blended nicely with the pebbly surface of the decals which had previously been coated with the gloss. Each coat dried for about 15 mins before applying the next. For Valspar high gloss lacquer, this is enough time that you can handle the piece if you want to following these misty coats. It flashes off fast under these conditions.
Then I gave what I would call a medium coat. Not a heavy drippy coat at all. The medium coat melted into the prior coats and you could see the thing geling. Beautiful.
Here it is about an hour later:
As you can see it gleams nicely and is slick as glass. I may put a protective coat of Future over it, though it won't make it any more glossy (it's already maxed out!). Add a parachute, wadding, and motor, and off she goes!
I will finish this thread with launch pics/video once I get a chance to put her in the air.
Marc
"If at first you don't succeed, Scream and Leap!"
NAR member 92906
Oblivious to time
I like what I see, well done! I'll need to put this one on my 'to do' list!
The process is continuous...
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