Help with Dr. Zooch Saturn V and F1 Engines

[GuyNoir]

I'm almost done with my Dr. Zooch Saturn V, but need some help on the exhaust manifolds. The instructions talk about using "FGP" or funky glue putty, made from partially dried Titebond. I didn't like the looks of that, and my second attempt with tissue glue putty wasn't any better.

Anyone out there have some ideas about how to build these puppies?

For those who have this kit, what worked for you when you did the build?

[rosko_racer]

When I built mine I thought that was weird. But I practiced the technique about three times until I was confortable with it. Once they dry they do not look bad, specially from an "ant scale" perspective. Give the "test ones" a coat of silver or chrome paint then decide. I do not have good pictures of my SatV, it was my first BAR rocket and at the time I was not good at posting pictures.

When I was building mine, I messed up one of the wraps and I re-drew it using a graphics program. I also did not wanted to paint the big black stripes because it would not match the black color on the wraps. Printing them was the only solution for me. I drew the black stripes using Power Point and printed them on paper to put on the lower first stage area.

I also built the Sat 1B and re-drew all the wraps. Of course, I consulted with the good ole doc on this. I have made them available to whom ever wants a soft copy. These have been fairly popular since then. I only charge 3,456,789,012 Ant Credits per copy If you are interested send me a PM with an email and I will send you the copies.

[Saluki]

I agree I have always had trouble with the engines. I have been working off and on some resin replacements. They are not quite Saturn engine bell but they look close. The weight might affect the flight but not much. Just have to wait and see.

[luke strawwalker]

If you're just determined not to use the FGP method or want to try something different, your best bet would probably be to use 'fix it epoxy clay' from Apogee Components to make the parts.

Hope this helps! OL JR

[jj94]

What exactly is an exhaust manifold?

[foose4string]

What exactly is an exhaust manifold?

Are you asking what does it do, or what does it look like on the Saturn V F1 engine?

[jj94]

Are you asking what does it do, or what does it look like on the Saturn V F1 engine?

Thanks foose. I just wanted to know what it looked like.

Mark, do you think that you can use yarn soaked with a bit of glue?

[luke strawwalker]

What exactly is an exhaust manifold?

He's referring to the tapered toroidal ring around the midpoint of the F-1 rocket engines on Saturn V. The F-1's used this exhaust duct to dump the turbopump exhaust into the nozzle skirt extension about halfway down the length of the 'engine bell'. This turbine exhaust was considerably cooler than the exhaust from the combustion chamber of the rocket engine itself, and therefore "insulated" the nozzle extension of the F-1 with a layer of this 'cooler' (meaning like 1200 degrees instead of 3,000 degree) turbine exhaust gas with the high temperature rocket exhaust in the middle.

That's why when you look at the pad shots of Saturn V's lifting off, you'll notice a dull red and black striped 'exhaust' extending out past the ends of the nozzles for a few feet and then being "absorbed" by the brilliant dazzling white-hot exhaust gases of the rocket engine itself. It's kinda weird looking at it, but that's why it happens.

The old Saturn I's and Atlas and Thor simply dumped the turbine exhaust overboard through an exhaust duct(s) sticking out/down to the side of the rocket engines... that's why when you watch those old pad shots from Mercury and the early probe launches and test launches you'll see this sort slow-moving "lazy" orange, dull red, and black looking exhaust 'rolling' off out to the side of the blazing hot, fast, straight rocket exhaust jet from the main combustion chambers... Saturn IB used a single duct all the four center engines dumped into centrally located between all the four inboard engines, and used the 'skirt dump' method on the outer four outboard engines. Early Saturn I's had four ducts dumping sorta straight out sideways below the fins, that's why the early Saturn I's looked like they were just spraying fire everywhere and it looked like the whole butt of the rocket was on fire!

Hope this helps! OL JR

[Fred22]

He's referring to the tapered toroidal ring around the midpoint of the F-1 rocket engines on Saturn V. The F-1's used this exhaust duct to dump the turbopump exhaust into the nozzle skirt extension about halfway down the length of the 'engine bell'. This turbine exhaust was considerably cooler than the exhaust from the combustion chamber of the rocket engine itself, and therefore "insulated" the nozzle extension of the F-1 with a layer of this 'cooler' (meaning like 1200 degrees instead of 3,000 degree) turbine exhaust gas with the high temperature rocket exhaust in the middle.

That's why when you look at the pad shots of Saturn V's lifting off, you'll notice a dull red and black striped 'exhaust' extending out past the ends of the nozzles for a few feet and then being "absorbed" by the brilliant dazzling white-hot exhaust gases of the rocket engine itself. It's kinda weird looking at it, but that's why it happens.

The old Saturn I's and Atlas and Thor simply dumped the turbine exhaust overboard through an exhaust duct(s) sticking out/down to the side of the rocket engines... that's why when you watch those old pad shots from Mercury and the early probe launches and test launches you'll see this sort slow-moving "lazy" orange, dull red, and black looking exhaust 'rolling' off out to the side of the blazing hot, fast, straight rocket exhaust jet from the main combustion chambers... Saturn IB used a single duct all the four center engines dumped into centrally located between all the four inboard engines, and used the 'skirt dump' method on the outer four outboard engines. Early Saturn I's had four ducts dumping sorta straight out sideways below the fins, that's why the early Saturn I's looked like they were just spraying fire everywhere and it looked like the whole butt of the rocket was on fire!

Hope this helps! OL JR

Thats a great explanation. Thanks
Cheers
Fred

[jj94]

He's referring to the tapered toroidal ring around the midpoint of the F-1 rocket engines on Saturn V. The F-1's used this exhaust duct to dump the turbopump exhaust into the nozzle skirt extension about halfway down the length of the 'engine bell'. This turbine exhaust was considerably cooler than the exhaust from the combustion chamber of the rocket engine itself, and therefore "insulated" the nozzle extension of the F-1 with a layer of this 'cooler' (meaning like 1200 degrees instead of 3,000 degree) turbine exhaust gas with the high temperature rocket exhaust in the middle.

That's why when you look at the pad shots of Saturn V's lifting off, you'll notice a dull red and black striped 'exhaust' extending out past the ends of the nozzles for a few feet and then being "absorbed" by the brilliant dazzling white-hot exhaust gases of the rocket engine itself. It's kinda weird looking at it, but that's why it happens.

The old Saturn I's and Atlas and Thor simply dumped the turbine exhaust overboard through an exhaust duct(s) sticking out/down to the side of the rocket engines... that's why when you watch those old pad shots from Mercury and the early probe launches and test launches you'll see this sort slow-moving "lazy" orange, dull red, and black looking exhaust 'rolling' off out to the side of the blazing hot, fast, straight rocket exhaust jet from the main combustion chambers... Saturn IB used a single duct all the four center engines dumped into centrally located between all the four inboard engines, and used the 'skirt dump' method on the outer four outboard engines. Early Saturn I's had four ducts dumping sorta straight out sideways below the fins, that's why the early Saturn I's looked like they were just spraying fire everywhere and it looked like the whole butt of the rocket was on fire!

Hope this helps! OL JR

Thanks for the explanation. It really clarified my thoughts on its purpose.

[BsSmith]

That's why when you look at the pad shots of Saturn V's lifting off, you'll notice a dull red and black striped 'exhaust' extending out past the ends of the nozzles for a few feet and then being "absorbed" by the brilliant dazzling white-hot exhaust gases of the rocket engine itself. It's kinda weird looking at it, but that's why it happens.

Is this what happens with a White Lightning flame too? I don't know why a solid fuel propellant would have a flame cooler next to the nozzle, but it's a possibility.