Ejection Charge Ground test

Just finished a succesful ground test of the ejection charge for my NCR Viking.
The calculations said 2 grams of 4F, I only had 3F so I went with 3 grams.
Payload bay sperated about 10 feet with a LOUD "THOOMP". The only problem I had was the igniter taking for ever to light. I went with Aerotech First Fire JR 8" igniters and I used an old Estes E2 system with 4 "D" batteries.
But it took almost 30 seconds to fire. Should I switch to someting else Quest Q2s mabey?

The Quest Ignitors make a better choice. I have never used them, but know people who do. I use a traditional "E-Match" (ejection charge lighter) because they take less current and burn very quick. First fire ignitors are designed to ignite a motor and can stay hot for a few seconds after ignition and could cause damage to your rocket. I don't think anyone will tell you that a First fire will make a good ejection charge lighter.

jazzviper1 said:

The calculations said 2 grams of 4F, I only had 3F so I went with 3 grams.

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3F is fine. Burns a tad slower, but it's still fine.

Payload bay sperated about 10 feet with a LOUD "THOOMP". The only problem I had was the igniter taking for ever to light. I went with Aerotech First Fire JR 8" igniters and I used an old Estes E2 system with 4 "D" batteries.
But it took almost 30 seconds to fire. Should I switch to someting else Quest Q2s mabey?

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AeroTech igniters want 12 volts; you only had 6. That's why it took forever.

For ground testing, any igniter will work -- I typically use Estes igniters for it, as they're cheaper than the alternatives.

For actual flying, you want something that is known reliable -- I'd suggest Quest Q2G2 igniters, or electric matches. The advantage to the Quest igniters is ease of acquisition.

-Kevin

I use the Quest Q2G2 igniters exclusively for ejection charges. Never had a problem!

Thank you.
I will use the Q2s for flight.

I have 3F powder as well and have done several tests. Instead of igniters or e-matches I used a filament from a lightbulb off of a string of 400 Christmas lights (read an article a while ago...credit to the author). Worked perfectly. Just carefully crack the bulb to expose the filament, poor your powder into your charge holder or whatever you use add some dog barf tape it up and POOF a nice thud.

Matt

Seems like to me that this ground test isn't a complete test without using the actual electronics to fire the charge. But, I have never done any ejection charges yet. However I plan to use the quest Q2G2 igniters when I do.

davdue said:

Seems like to me that this ground test isn't a complete test without using the actual electronics to fire the charge. But, I have never done any ejection charges yet. However I plan to use the quest Q2G2 igniters when I do.

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Most people, when doing a ground test, are verifying that the charge is appropriately sized. In that case, the electronics aren't needed, and any cheap ignition source is sufficient.

-Kevin

Okay-I'll admit it! Never used the Quest stuff. I make all my ignitors, so exactly
WHAT makes these things so special? Is it smaller nichrome gage, the pyrogen, the wrap or ??? If anybody remembers, I'm the guy that asked if anybody else still used flashbulbs. Still do-never fails! But I'm up to learning new tricks. Anybody know what the no fire/all fire ratings are? Comp of the pyrogen? Expiring minds need to know....

davdue said:

Seems like to me that this ground test isn't a complete test without using the actual electronics to fire the charge. But, I have never done any ejection charges yet. However I plan to use the quest Q2G2 igniters when I do.

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What I recommend is hooking up bare ematches/ignitors to your av-bay and running the electronics with some kind of simulated flight to make sure that your av-bay is hooked up correctly, that your batteries are compatible with your ematches, your deployment settings do what you want, etc. The Raven has a simulated flight capability in which you can turn on the simulated thrust (which actually activates a test mode in the accelerometer chip) on and off to simulate staged flights, etc. and the altimeter reacts as if it's really flying. That way you're testing out everything except the black powder, and all the data is recorded for review as if it were an actual flight. Then you can test out your charge sizing separately in your backyard.

fyrwrxz said:

Okay-I'll admit it! Never used the Quest stuff. I make all my ignitors, so exactly
WHAT makes these things so special? Is it smaller nichrome gage, the pyrogen, the wrap or ??? If anybody remembers, I'm the guy that asked if anybody else still used flashbulbs. Still do-never fails! But I'm up to learning new tricks. Anybody know what the no fire/all fire ratings are? Comp of the pyrogen? Expiring minds need to know....

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The Quest Q2G2 ignitors are really sensitive ematches. They have a resistance of about 2-3 Ohms and an all-fire current of only about 0.3 Amps. They're cheap, easily available, reliable, and can be purchased without a LEUP. I use them straight-up for deployment charges, and I dip them in Magnalite for airstarts. They go off with a quick snap and a very short crackle, which is why they need to be augmented for igniting composite propellant.

Thanks Adrian- I'll have to get some and play with them.

So since I need some Q2G2s anyway, any suggestions on good sources where they can be had for a fair price? I could use a couple dozen, but would consider buying more if I reached some kind of free shipping breakpoint or something.

Jo3sh said:

So since I need some Q2G2s anyway, any suggestions on good sources where they can be had for a fair price? I could use a couple dozen, but would consider buying more if I reached some kind of free shipping breakpoint or something.

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The best price I've found (you guessed it!) is hobbylinc.com.

Check the Quest web site for a direct purchase. A couple months ago, I bought a few dozen at a discount. Might have been a Black Friday sale. No joy on shipping costs.

I use discarded Crapperheads for ground testing. I must have a hundred of them in my range box.

Q2G2s will fire on continuity test with an Estes controller. To prevent that, you can replace the lamp in the controller with a LED assembly sold to replace that lamp in pinball machines.

hardinlw said:

Q2G2s will fire on continuity test with an Estes controller. To prevent that, you can replace the lamp in the controller with a LED assembly sold to replace that lamp in pinball machines.

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+1. It's a very easy replacement, the hardest part is just searching for the thread that gives the website for it. As a bonus, they're much brighter and more durable than the glass lamp, too.

I use Quest ignitors for all my charges, Red Arrow is the cheapest I've found. $4.25 for a pack of 6 short ones.

Mike

Quest had a back friday sale. That is the best price. $14.99 for a 24-pack. + shipping of course.

cavecentral said:

Quest had a back friday sale. That is the best price. $14.99 for a 24-pack. + shipping of course.

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Yep, which is why I now have 75 of them for about $45, shipped.

-Kevin

troj said:

Yep, which is why I now have 75 of them for about $45, shipped.

-Kevin

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Dang! I wish I would have seen that. We use full length E-matches directly to the altimeters when we fly, but the Q2G2s are really great for ground testing.




Braden

I ordered a buttload of the Q2G2s long and short during their sale.In the shipment was a "red ticket" with a multiple use code good until 12-31-12.
So if you order from Quest enter coupon code RT2012 for 25% off purchase.

Rocketeer Gator said:

So if you order from Quest enter coupon code RT2012 for 25% off purchase.

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That's a good coupon code, thanks for posting it. Hobbylinc still wins by a few bucks, though - not only is the price of the igniters better, the shipping cost is lower.

fyrwrxz said:

Thanks Adrian- I'll have to get some and play with them.

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Somebody should correct me but the quest q2g2 come in two sizes, the 3.5" 6-pack for $8 & the 8" pair for $4. Have heard the smaller have the very low threshold to ignite, and the longers are good but exhibit slightly different qualities.

Think that discount jim may have these, but don't know what price, his madcow stuff is higher than msrp .

Had some longer in my rangebox for a bit , then gave them to DBrent when I saw him static testing his PF Nike Smoke deployment with solar igniters. Thought the long leads would make things easier. He did kick a whole new pack of copperheads to me for my old E16W that wouldn't light.

Did try some Estes prototype igniters, they promise to be able to ignite a composite motor (except for a old E16W) , & have those nice long leads -but need more juice. Hopefully they will not be $4 each like the first fires.

Kenny

Jo3sh said:

That's a good coupon code, thanks for posting it. Hobbylinc still wins by a few bucks, though - not only is the price of the igniters better, the shipping cost is lower.

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Much welcome, if you catch the sale in Dec. it's makes it that much sweeter and balances out the shipping.

Somebody should correct me but the quest q2g2 come in two sizes, the 3.5" 6-pack for $8 & the 8" pair for $4. Have heard the smaller have the very low threshold to ignite, and the longers are good but exhibit slightly different qualities.

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You are correct sir,the shorts also come in 24 packs.
I haven't measured the resistance but have used both for ejection/ground testing and worked perfectly every time.

Adrian A said:

The Quest Q2G2 ignitors are really sensitive ematches. They have a resistance of about 2-3 Ohms and an all-fire current of only about 0.3 Amps.

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Ok, when it comes to electronics and electrical circuits etc, I'm lost. I am going to use an Easy Mini for dual deployment in a small rocket. That altimeter uses a 3.7V, 200 mAH Lipo. Is that going to be enough to fire two of the Quest ignitors, one each apogee and main, or do I need something more?

Thanks,
gary7

That should work fine. In case of doubt, try testing the altimeter with an ignitor (but no charge)
My Raven uses a similar battery and fires the Q2G2 without issues

gary7 said:

Ok, when it comes to electronics and electrical circuits etc, I'm lost. I am going to use an Easy Mini for dual deployment in a small rocket. That altimeter uses a 3.7V, 200 mAH Lipo. Is that going to be enough to fire two of the Quest ignitors, one each apogee and main, or do I need something more?

Thanks,
gary7

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It should certainly be able to.