Revell Saturn V PMC Build

[Pantherjon]

Received my Saturn V kits this afternoon, and no time like the present to get started on this project!

So let's get started! Here are the parts in the bags in the box in the rocket room in the house in the....


So, first thing..This IS going to be a cluster powered rocket! The real Sat V had 5 motors pushing it off the pad, and so will this one! I decided on a central 24mm with 4 outboard 18mm..Weird part was that when putting this together there was quite a bit of slop in fitting it in the BT70 stuffer tube..As a 'work around' and to get the engine mount more secure I wrapped a few layers of tape, it is now in snug and secure!Oh, and I ended up putting the mount in a COUPLER! Now to do some 'surgery' on the plastic pieces.


Here are the parts for the stage 1 section..Plastic base with fairings, the engine mount and the stuffer tube..Hole is to be drilled out of the plastic base piece..


Here is the plastic base piece with a hole cut out of it..I got it a little off center but that is okay, as I need to do a LOT trimming up to get the opening big enough for the tubing..

[Pantherjon]

After quite a bit of sanding- it actually went a bit faster then I predicted- but after a ton of hard work sanding the hole out I reached an impasse..In order for the coupler to fit in the base it would need to be sanded out a lot further, obliterating the ring at the top- which shouldn't be a big problem, but I had grown tired of sanding and breathing plastic dust..So I decided to make a couple of cuts along the length of the coupler and squeeze the tube in a bit..



So, now then how will it fit in the plastic base? It looks like it should be a good fit..Let's see..Looks like it fits pretty dang good!


Now, the big question is; How is it going to be putting the motors in? With the coupler tube squeezed like this it is distorting the motor tubes some..So, out to the rocket den and pull out some motors and lets see how, of IF they will go into the motor mount...Well, looks like a success! Right now this is just a dry fitting of the engine mount..Glue to go on in the next few days..

[dwmzmm]

Looks like a great plastic model conversion project you got going there, Pantherjon! Are you going to use clear add-on fins to help stability for flight? Keep us posted on the progress.

[dedleytedley]

Is that the 1/144 scale model? It looks like you'll have some fun with this one! Every time I fly my old Estes Saturn 5 I wish it was a cluster like yours.
How heavy do you expect it to be? I imagine it will need a bit of noseweight to balance out all those motors.
Are you making motor mount rings or omitting them? Ted

[Pantherjon]

Is that the 1/144 scale model? It looks like you'll have some fun with this one! Every time I fly my old Estes Saturn 5 I wish it was a cluster like yours.
How heavy do you expect it to be? I imagine it will need a bit of noseweight to balance out all those motors.
Are you making motor mount rings or omitting them? Ted

Yeah, this is the 1/144 scale one..Already am having 'fun' with it!

Not sure exactly how heavy it will be..and yeah, I imagine a bit of nose weight will be needed with all of the motors..

Omitting the motor mount rings..am going to fill the gaps with glue soaked balled up tissue..

[Pantherjon]

Well, did a little tinkering with it this morning..Last night I found that I could insert the engines no problem, even with the slightly out of round tubes..This morning I had a dickens of a time REMOVING them! I had to pull the whole assembly out they were that tight! Which, in retrospect would be fine for the retention, and removing the spent casing could still have been accomplished by using pliers. I felt that if I had to use the pliers to remove the spent motors that I would probably end up having to grip the rocket somewhere inappropriately and break or damage details, etc..

So, where the tubing overlapped I drew a line and then using a nice sharp blade I cut that excess material off..Motors can be inserted and removed with no great force ..Plus it looks a little 'cleaner'..(Pic 1)

I also figured I had better insert the mount a little forward so that when I have the rocket on display I can have the plate with the F1 engine bells attached for realism(Pic 2)

And Pic 3 is the actual Apollo 11 rocket leaving the VAB heading to Pad 39A..

[Pantherjon]

Looks like a great plastic model conversion project you got going there, Pantherjon! Are you going to use clear add-on fins to help stability for flight? Keep us posted on the progress.

Sure am going to add some clear fin 'extensions' to achieve stable flight! The fins in the kit are TINY! About the same size as the fins on the Zooch 'ant scale' SAT V, and this one is quite a bit bigger!

[Pantherjon]

Well, with 14 hour days at work this last week not much has happened in this build..However on my day off Tuesday, I did a little bit..Only real part of 'construction was gluing the 'clam shell' pieces on stage three where the lunar module goes..Since this is not being made as a static model the LM is not going in there.

Got stages 1 and 2 shells taped together for a dry fitting of the stuffer tube..Come to find out that the stuffer tube is a tad bit bigger then the inner dimensions of the plastic shells, as such I made a cut down the length of the tube and have an overlap..Will probably end up cutting off the overlap bit, butting the tube together and gluing the cut off piece on the inside of the seam..Things seem o fit together pretty well, tho I am at a little bit of a quandary..Where to separate the rocket for recovery? Just above the inter stage at stage 2? or where it transitions at stage 3? If I have the separation at the top of the interstage I have to worry about the transition from stage 2 to 3 staying intact as there is really not much structural strength there..Likewise, if I separate at the transition to stage 3 will have to configure some sort of coupler for stage 3..Will have to ponder over the possibilities over the next few days..

Did take a few pictures:
Picture 1 is of stages 1,2 and 3 stacked together, blue tape holding the stage shells together..
Picture 2 has stage 3 separate
Picture 3 is top of stage 2 showing how much overlap my stuffer tube has at that point- the inner diameter of the plastic shells is not consistent and gets narrow where the stages/inter stage mate up..

Oh, I also glued together the command module shells ..I did do a 'whole stack' weigh in and right now tips the scale at 9.8oz..

[Pantherjon]

Just another picture I forgot to post last night,,This is the full 3rd stage stack(minus the escape tower) with the CM body and heat shield..I didn't put the actual CM piece in, that is it sitting to the left..Still some little detail doo-dads to add on, the little pieces on the right in front of the stage 1,2 stack are the ullage motors for the inter stage..I also just noticed 2 small holes in the 3rd stage shells..Looked in the instructions for the static model and don't see a reference to what goes in them...Looks like it might be a good place to rig an attachment point for the recovery system!

[Pantherjon]

A little more progress to report!

Got the stuffer tube trimmed and the cut out section glued to the interior of the tube..Just waiting on the glue to fully dry now...

Still contemplating on how to attach the recovery system, still thinking of using the stage 3/CM section as the separation point..It just so happens that a 29mm motor tube fits pretty well in that section..So will be eventually gluing that in place..Now to figure out what to use for nose weight and how to secure it...

[Pantherjon]

Did some more actual 'building' this afternoon!

Went ahead and glued the 'stuffer tube' onto the coupler/motor assembly, and then proceeded to glue the stage one plastic section on(Picture 1)

Then the Inter Stage part was dropped down and glued in place(Picture 2)

Then stage two was glued in place(Picture 3)

The next hurdle was the attachment of the stage 3 portion..This is where the rocket will 'break' for recovery purposes..With blade in hand a coupler is modified and parts rounded up(Picture 4)..The hard part is making the top portion conform to the 'reducer'..After a bit of trimming and swearing it was accomplished and glued into the stage 3 reducer..What I did was cut out 2 upside down triangles from the top portion so those sections can 'fold in' when inserted in the reducer..Then I found that when I did that it made the lower section deform into an egg shape-not good..Some more fiddling I got it, it is still a tad tight, will have to work on that a bit more..

Then I stacked everything(minus the escape tower still) and weighed it..It is weighing in at 12.9oz right now..Notice in Picture 4 the bulkhead and eye bolt, I have also attached 4 fender washers- this makes for 2oz of 'nose weight'..Picture 5 shows the whole stack..

[Micromeister]

Super Cluster!
Wish I'd gone ahead and done that with mine way back when. I was more concerned with just using a single pack of D's then the the five motor combo at the time. Very nicely done

[Phred]

I saw this model kit at my local Hobbytown today. Any progress?

Phred

[georgegassaway]

I read something recently on the “Space Modelers” Yahoogroup, about this kit.

I did not want to believe it ,but I see by Pantherjon’s first photo of the kit, that is it true.

The decals, the decals. The UNITED STATES and USA lettering is BLACK!!! Not Red like it is supposed to be. It was unclear to me in what I read if the US Flag was also black, or if it is in red and blue.

I guess since they spelled Aldrin’s name right, that is all that mattered about this kit....sheesh!

Anyway, I wanted to point that out before anyone has added their decals, yet. It could be possible to scan and change black into red in Photoshop, and print your own. I do not think there are any “aftermarket” decals by other specialist companies, since this is a just re-released big screw-up by Revell.

Though it would not hurt at all to contact Tango Papa decals. If they have Saturn-V decals for the 1/100 kits then resizing to 1/144 would not be hard. Well, I know they also did some 1/200 decals for the old AMT “Man In Space” kit which had 5 rockets, including the Saturn-V, so they could scale up the 1/200 Saturn-V portion.

Heck, for that matter, for making your own decals, forget the scan and photoshop part and go to Jim Z’s site to get a scan of the old Estes or Centuri 1/100 kit decals and resize them to 69.4444444444 percent (100 divided by 144). Or print the 1/100 decals at 69 percent. I am assuming that scans of those Saturn kit decals exist there, not necessarily a good assumption.

- George Gassaway

[Pantherjon]

I saw this model kit at my local Hobbytown today. Any progress?

Phred

Unfortunately no new progress.. Long hours at work and then doing school work(yeah, I have started college courses! ) leaves what little time I have left very little and mostly earmarked for sleep- which reminds me...Why the heck am I still up this late!?!?!..LOL..Hopefully I will be able to get some work done on it Tuesday..:knockonwoodsmilie:

[Pantherjon]

Well, to resurrect this thread..No progress has been made for way too long! Coming down to the crunch time, and Mr Procrastinator has run into a little snag..It is for the separation point..Basically what I need to fabricate is a paper transition with a shoulder to go into the lower section..I used the 'Template Widget' from EMRR to print out a proper sized transition, now I need to figure out where to cut this excess paper to form a 'shoulder'..I tried previously using a coupler I had and it didn't turn out so well..Is there some magic formula of what type of pattern to cut out so the paper can be formed from the cone shape to a cylinder shape?See picture 1.

Next on the agenda is fins..Seeing as how I have procrastinated with this(well, to a certain extent work and school has been kicking my behind and eating up what little free time I have)I haven't gotten any clear lexan..So, next best is to go ahead and make some over sized balsa fins..Going to use some 1/16" material..Will need to enlarge the slots slightly on the plastic piece, but that shouldn't be too difficult..Picture 2 shows the plastic fin on top of the fin template of what size the fins will be(fin template stolen from the Saturn V RockSim file for the soon to be released SEMROC Saturn V kit)..

The only BIG thing to get done is the transition..Once that is accomplished it won't be anything to get this finished up(hopefully)..Painting will be a challenge, but I have some good pics to reference for the roll pattern to get the TLAR look.

[Pantherjon]

One giant leap for Jon, one small step for model rocketry!

Got the fin slots expanded, fins cut with TTW tabs and a dry fit of the fins!
WOW!..I opted to go with a little bit thicker fin material, mainly because that was the size slots I cut in the plastic fairing! Step not shown was the slots being cut..But was fairly simple and pain free using the Dremel and a sanding/cutting wheel..

Here are a couple of pictures of the fins dry fitted in the slots.

In the process of papering the fins right now..More progress to be posted through the day! It's beginning to look like a Saturn V now!

[Pantherjon]

Well, I got my transition 'problem' solved! At least I hope so..No pictures of this step..sorry..What I did was take a coupler tube, sliced it open as the tube it is going into I had to resize similarly to fit in the plastic body, then I used the scrap piece I cut off the coupler as a baker and glued it together. I then cut a saw tooth pattern at the top so it can slide into the interstage coupler of the plastic model..I then took a 29mm motor tube(what luck it fit like almost perfectly!) and put it into the upper stage area..This is where the eyebolt and associated nose weight will be epoxied to..I figured this tube is where the most stress will be encountered, especially during the recovery phase. As such, I drilled 2 1/8" holes just above the interstage coupler and put a stiff cardboard stick in the holes for bracing..Picture 1 shows the upper stage assembly..I will of course trim the stick down flush..

I also got the fins glued in as well! Picture 2 shows them glued in after I papered them..I think I did a fair job..I didn't airfoil them, so a ding off for that as far as 'scale' goes, as well as they are oversized anyway for stability purposes..

And picture 3 shows the stack..Throw together the LES tower and rig the chutes and she is almost flight ready! I will have the booster section come back on a 24" chute and the upper section will come back on a 18"..BTW, she tips the scale at 14.1 oz..

I believe she is going to fly nekkid, as I don't foresee the time available to do proper justice in painting the roll patterns on..But will see..

[Bravo52]

Jon.........how's it going????

[Pantherjon]

Jon.........how's it going????

Not much further along then before..LOL..I DID rig the recovery shock cords in and it flew this past weekend! In fact, it flew very, very well! I had a dickens of a time getting the motors in however..When I built the motor mount I didn't take into account the motor tubes may get distorted or out of round..Well, they did..So, when I got to loading the motors in they were a tight, VERY tight fit(glad I had the plastic body as I really had to use quite a bit of force to push them in- especially the central 'D' motor)..After getting the outer 4 'C's in place I remembered I hadn't glued in a thrust ring for the central 24mm tube..Quick fix, I taped a 1/8" ring on the aft of the D12 and shoved it in as far as it would go..It was then I realized I had forgotten a launch lug! Grabbed an old AT ignitor tube, and using CA slapped that on the side of the rocket- not very elegant, but it worked..Launch time came- and of course I had left my camera in the vehicle In fact, it turned out to be an impromptu drag race with Bobby Weatherford and his classic Estes Sat V going up on 5 D21's! Well, the button was pushed, and mine got off the pad a bit quicker then Bobbie's but he soon caught mine..We both reached approximately the same altitude..Ejection was right on the money! And the top part and main body floated down on separate chutes! Upon recovery I fond I had broken off one of the fins, but it will be an easy repair..After the repair it will be time to do the details and PAINT it! I SHOULD have it ready by the time I can get to a launch that doesn't interfere with my work schedule(December)! And I promise that I will take a video of the next flight to post it!

[blackjack2564]

I meant to ask you if this ever flew over the weekend. Glad you had a nice flight, but sorry I missed it. Especially since it was a drag race!