wadding

[jadebox]

Yes, and you can even get foil ones.

But, those aren't biodegradable so you shouldn't let them litter the launch area. You could, I guess, attach them to the rocket like you would a Nomex or Kevlar parachute protector.

-- Roger

[JStarStar]

I believe MPC, during its brief operation as the "No. 3" rocketry company in the early-mid 70s, included little plugs of fiberglass insulation with rockets for use as wadding.

I didn't like it because the little glass fibers pricked and irritated your fingers, the same would be true today.

The aspect that it is not even remotely biodegradable, lingers as litter which will make rocketeers unpopular with launch site landowners, and can be in fact very hazardous to animals (vets have told me that swallowing fiberglass can be fatal) to me pretty much strikes it off the list of potential wadding materials.

So besides good old Estes wadding (relatively very expensive) which as many have noted is basically TP soaked in flame-retardant borax solution, dog barf and fire-retardant crepe or tissue paper seem to be the way to go. Most of those dissolve away after a rainstorm or two.

Lettuce/cabbage work as well from many reports.

[luke strawwalker]

Another wadding alternative popular with the contest crowd but which will certainly NOT endear you to your landowners is FOAM PLUGS.

These are a variation of ejection pistons, which can be made from balsa and undersize tubing, or from plugs of insulation closed-cell foam.

If one is inclined to use them, make sure they're attached to the rocket with a bit of tape and a string, or that you meticulously clean them up afterwards...

Later! OL JR

[shreadvector]

AMEN to the blem bale bargains. I go to the store with a large lawn/leaf bag in the car and if they have a damaged bale, I ask for a discount and if it is a good discount I buy it. I go through one or two bales per year since I pack smaller bags for our local club launches, which are in a big park.

Hundreds of flights ejecting Estes or Quest wadding would look like someone dumped a Sunday LA Times from a helicopter onto the park. With the cellulose insulation there is virtually no sign we used the park.

I agree completely...

Often at the indoor lumberyards, you can find bales of cellulose insulation that have been speared or torn by careless forklift operators which you can often buy for nearly nothing... I got a bale for about $2-3 one time that had a forklift spear in the corner...

As a landowner who provides a club launch field, I DEFINITELY prefer dog barf over regular Estes wadding... by the time it's shot out of the tube at altitude and drifts down as confetti, it's spread out over such a large area as to be unidentifiable... plus the smaller particle size means it drops down through the grass to the soil surface and plant debris laying on the surface, which is usually damp, meaning that it rots back into the soil very quickly.

I don't really mind Estes type sheet wadding, because after a launch, I can wander around the field the next day and pick up enough scattered balls of wadding to keep me supplied for quite a while... sometimes it's singed or burned a bit, but it can easily be reused... most of it is perfectly fine... I dump the partially burned stuff into the tube first and put "good" wadding on top of it... (when I don't use dog barf... small rockets are kinda hard to pack with dog barf).

I was just pointing out that if one is a glutton for punishment, one CAN make their own wadding...

Later! OL JR

[MarkII]

Hundreds of flights ejecting Estes or Quest wadding would look like someone dumped a Sunday LA Times from a helicopter onto the park. With the cellulose insulation there is virtually no sign we used the park.

I always go around and pick up as much wadding as I can both during and after a launch. I do it without even thinking, and if the piece is still usable, I keep it! Now go ahead and try picking up and reusing dog barf again in another flight.

We don't have real big launches that draw dozens of participants around here, so picking up after a launch isn't an onerous task. I have no problem with the recommendation to use dog barf, though; it comes with its own set of advantages.

[jadebox]

Someone just posted a message describing a potential problem with using dog barf as wadding:

http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=31201#4

-- Roger

[luke strawwalker]

I always go around and pick up as much wadding as I can both during and after a launch. I do it without even thinking, and if the piece is still usable, I keep it! Now go ahead and try picking up and reusing dog barf again in another flight.

We don't have real big launches that draw dozens of participants around here, so picking up after a launch isn't an onerous task. I have no problem with the recommendation to use dog barf, though; it comes with its own set of advantages.

Yeah, I do the same thing... (hey, I'm not cheap, I'm FRUGAL! LOL... Don't know which sounds worse! ) It's gotta be pretty far gone to be "unusable"... basically ashes... because no matter how many holes burned through it from "birdshot" (well, it sorta looks like it because of the little holes burned in it from the BP particles) that piece can always be dropped in the tube first with better stuff on top to seal whatever gets by it...

Hear what your saying about the dog barf... but one other thing, no matter how meticulously you clean up afterwards, you're ALWAYS gonna miss SOME balls of sheet wadding... might not be a big deal (especially in wet climates) but on the other hand...

Later! OL JR

[JStarStar]

Someone just posted a message describing a potential problem with using dog barf as wadding:

http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=31201#4

-- Roger

Unless you actually do have drugs packed inside the bags you have nothing to worry about.

Basically if a cop pulls you over he is going to go through any object in the car he deems even remotely suspicious. I wouldn't be surprised if a burnt-motor smell wouldn't set him off too.

[Solomoriah]

Some years back, in my usual hurry, I was pulled over for speeding in a little town by a Sheriff's deputy. I don't know how it works where you all live, but in rural Missouri the Sheriff's office pays little attention to speeders... the Highway Patrol issues practically all the speeding tickets. So this was a bit strange.

Rather than the usual warning, or alternately a visit with the deputy in his car as he wrote me a ticket, he told me to get out, and then he frisked me. He found the contents of my pocket interesting ("is that a bottle of some kind?") so with his agreement I removed the screwdriver handle from my pocket and handed it to him.

Then he asked if he could search my car. I'd never been asked that before. I was driving a red Cavalier, in moderately good condition, nothing I would have thought suspicious. Whatever. So I told him, sure, go ahead.

I fix computers for a living (hence the screwdriver in my pocket) and my car has a substantial portion of my inventory of cables and durable parts in it. He ducked down and looked in the window, and decided he didn't need to search it after all.

Coda, part one: I work for a lot of counties, including the county this deputy worked for at the time. I was passing through the office of the circuit clerk one day when I heard them talking about this deputy having irritated some of the locals. Minor, obnoxious abuses of power, basically. I stopped and told the story above (which had happened only a few weeks earlier) and was told that the judge specifically ordered him to stop doing unnecessary searches.

Coda, part two: A couple of years later, I was working in the Sheriff's office in another county, when the dispatcher asked if I had met their new deputy. I was just about to ask her what his name was when, yup, THAT deputy walked in; the dispatcher introduced us, and he said he was pleased to meet me. I replied, we've met before, and he asked how, so I told him. I also said, I thought anyone who had touched me there ought to remember my name.

[luke strawwalker]

Some years back, in my usual hurry, I was pulled over for speeding in a little town by a Sheriff's deputy. I don't know how it works where you all live, but in rural Missouri the Sheriff's office pays little attention to speeders... the Highway Patrol issues practically all the speeding tickets. So this was a bit strange.

Rather than the usual warning, or alternately a visit with the deputy in his car as he wrote me a ticket, he told me to get out, and then he frisked me. He found the contents of my pocket interesting ("is that a bottle of some kind?") so with his agreement I removed the screwdriver handle from my pocket and handed it to him.

Then he asked if he could search my car. I'd never been asked that before. I was driving a red Cavalier, in moderately good condition, nothing I would have thought suspicious. Whatever. So I told him, sure, go ahead.

I fix computers for a living (hence the screwdriver in my pocket) and my car has a substantial portion of my inventory of cables and durable parts in it. He ducked down and looked in the window, and decided he didn't need to search it after all.

Coda, part one: I work for a lot of counties, including the county this deputy worked for at the time. I was passing through the office of the circuit clerk one day when I heard them talking about this deputy having irritated some of the locals. Minor, obnoxious abuses of power, basically. I stopped and told the story above (which had happened only a few weeks earlier) and was told that the judge specifically ordered him to stop doing unnecessary searches.

Coda, part two: A couple of years later, I was working in the Sheriff's office in another county, when the dispatcher asked if I had met their new deputy. I was just about to ask her what his name was when, yup, THAT deputy walked in; the dispatcher introduced us, and he said he was pleased to meet me. I replied, we've met before, and he asked how, so I told him. I also said, I thought anyone who had touched me there ought to remember my name.

Yep, sadly it takes all kinds... saw that myself...

Why do you think my wife doesn't want me being a cop... (and I pretty much agree).

later! OL JR

[Rokitman88]

I'm experimenting with making my own chute protecters for my larger rockets. I only have a few small rockets that use wadding so I just stick with Estes. Nomex and kevlar can get expensive when I require one in each of my rockets because I dont like to take the time to change them between launches so I am trying heavy cotton cloth sprayed with heat resistant (made for bbq's) spray paint. I'm using a propane torch to test them and so far the results have been positive. Regular cotton cloth burns through in a few seconds but the sprayed cloth might take up to 7 or 8 seconds to burn so I think thats ample time to get the chute out before it's damaged. Now I just need to make sure the cloth wont ignite so I dont set the desert on fire!

[luke strawwalker]

I'm experimenting with making my own chute protecters for my larger rockets. I only have a few small rockets that use wadding so I just stick with Estes. Nomex and kevlar can get expensive when I require one in each of my rockets because I dont like to take the time to change them between launches so I am trying heavy cotton cloth sprayed with heat resistant (made for bbq's) spray paint. I'm using a propane torch to test them and so far the results have been positive. Regular cotton cloth burns through in a few seconds but the sprayed cloth might take up to 7 or 8 seconds to burn so I think thats ample time to get the chute out before it's damaged. Now I just need to make sure the cloth wont ignite so I dont set the desert on fire!

Interesting... report back on how this works out...

I don't really understand the "nomex chute protectors are too expensive" thing though... they can be purchased for a few bucks from most vendors, for about the price of a decent ripstop parachute, or less...

As for "the trouble of switching them between rockets-- how hard is it to attach a snap swivel to them with a bit of kevlar string (or cotton string for that matter since the buttonhole is usually high enough in one corner that it's going to be protected by the rest of the shield anyway) and then lock the snap swivel around the shock cord before flight?? Shouldn't take any more time than separating and rolling up balls of wadding to stick in the rocket...

I don't get it...

Later! OL JR

[Rokitman88]

Interesting... report back on how this works out...

I don't really understand the "nomex chute protectors are too expensive" thing though... they can be purchased for a few bucks from most vendors, for about the price of a decent ripstop parachute, or less...

As for "the trouble of switching them between rockets-- how hard is it to attach a snap swivel to them with a bit of kevlar string (or cotton string for that matter since the buttonhole is usually high enough in one corner that it's going to be protected by the rest of the shield anyway) and then lock the snap swivel around the shock cord before flight?? Shouldn't take any more time than separating and rolling up balls of wadding to stick in the rocket...

I don't get it...

Later! OL JR

Because of the long drive to the nearest launch site, I prep as many as a dozen rockets ahead of time with the intention of launching all of them, kinda of a high producton launch day. I like to have the motors, chutes, and protection all in place so I dont need to spend much time prepping at the launch site. And because I fly mostly HPR , it takes a lot of time for recovery. So the less time I take prepping , the more launch time I get!

Sure I could make things less expensive by switching things around but I could save more money by either going LPR or do less launching also! Whats the fun in that?

Ah, forget everything I just said. I just like to experiment and make things!

[billspad]

I just like to experiment and make things!

Then you should try ironing board covers. You can get the material at a fabric store but chances are you can talk your wife/girlfriend/mother into buying a new cover and giving you the old one to dispose of.

[Zeus-cat]

I tested an old ironing board cover at home with a match; it started to burn. Apparently the one we had was not fireproof.

[billspad]

I tested an old ironing board cover at home with a match; it started to burn. Apparently the one we had was not fireproof.

They're not fireproof. You can scorch and char them but they shouldn't support combustion. Did the fire go out when you removed the match? I got a piece from a fabric store that I used in a rocket I've flown a few times. It's scorched but then again so are some of the Nomex parachute protectors I've used.

[qquake2k]

They're not fireproof. You can scorch and char them but they shouldn't support combustion. Did the fire go out when you removed the match? I got a piece from a fabric store that I used in a rocket I've flown a few times. It's scorched but then again so are some of the Nomex parachute protectors I've used.

I'm cheap. I might have to give that a try.

[azgreg]

I'm cheap. I might have to give that a try.

Thrifty, keep saying thrifty.

[qquake2k]

Thrifty, keep saying thrifty.

Thrifty? Naw, I'm so tight I squeak! I did look at some ironing board covers at Walfart, but none said heat resistant.

[Fe Dude]

How about "Parsimonious" that sounds like cheap and thrifty while being sophistamacated as well

[qquake2k]

How about "Parsimonious" that sounds like cheap and thrifty while being sophistamacated as well

I would accept that as an axiom. LOL

[azgreg]

Just purchased a 18 lb bale of "dog barf" at Lowes with a little "fork lift" damage for $4.00.

[Handeman]

Just purchased a 18 lb bale of "dog barf" at Lowes with a little "fork lift" damage for $4.00.

I see their prices have gone up since I got mine about 4 years ago.

[JStarStar]

Just purchased a 18 lb bale of "dog barf" at Lowes with a little "fork lift" damage for $4.00.

You should probably be good for several years unless you start launching rockets by the thousands.

[bill2654]

Something I found out while researching ironing board covers is that the "old" ones used to be made with asbestos. Those were fireproof but the new aluminized or silcone coated ones are only scorch resistant. Think I will stick to nomex and barf.

[Rokitman88]

I'm experimenting with making my own chute protecters for my larger rockets. I only have a few small rockets that use wadding so I just stick with Estes. Nomex and kevlar can get expensive when I require one in each of my rockets because I dont like to take the time to change them between launches so I am trying heavy cotton cloth sprayed with heat resistant (made for bbq's) spray paint. I'm using a propane torch to test them and so far the results have been positive. Regular cotton cloth burns through in a few seconds but the sprayed cloth might take up to 7 or 8 seconds to burn so I think thats ample time to get the chute out before it's damaged. Now I just need to make sure the cloth wont ignite so I dont set the desert on fire!

I got to test my homemade protectors yesterday using one in a scratch built flying on an Aerotech G 40. It was very lightly scorched and there was no damage to the chute so I consider that a success. Now I'm going to try one in another rocket using a CTI H motor and see how it fares. Fingers crossed!

[SacEsq]

Really hood topic and replies. Being a "noob" I tried the "dog barf" for the first time yesterday at the SARG launch. Was very impressed except for when used in my big daddy. Already a tight fit for everything in the tube and that leaves very little room for wadding or barf. Lots of scorching on first launch and on second a toasted parachute. Was told a thinner nylon shute and "nomex"? Will have to try that ...

[peter_stanley]

Oh, come on....why make it when you can buy a lifetime supply cheaper then a few rolls of TP......

Dog Barf!

Go to home depot and get a bale of blown in cellulose insulation. It's already pre treated with fire retardant and it will break down fairly quickly. I've never been to a launch site where it wasn't allowed. It's also pre-made so you won't spend any time

I second that. I bought some 10 years ago, and still have the majority of the brick left.

[luke strawwalker]

Really hood topic and replies. Being a "noob" I tried the "dog barf" for the first time yesterday at the SARG launch. Was very impressed except for when used in my big daddy. Already a tight fit for everything in the tube and that leaves very little room for wadding or barf. Lots of scorching on first launch and on second a toasted parachute. Was told a thinner nylon shute and "nomex"? Will have to try that ...

Short fat rockets don't usually do as well with barf... your best bet is a nomex protector for those sorts of rockets... maximize your internal space that way...

Like just about everything else, dog barf isn't a "one size fits all" solution...

Later! OL JR

[qquake2k]

Really hood topic and replies. Being a "noob" I tried the "dog barf" for the first time yesterday at the SARG launch. Was very impressed except for when used in my big daddy. Already a tight fit for everything in the tube and that leaves very little room for wadding or barf. Lots of scorching on first launch and on second a toasted parachute. Was told a thinner nylon shute and "nomex"? Will have to try that ...

A Nomex blanket would work, that's what I used in my Who's Your Daddy. But the ones I have from Top Flight are fairly thick and heavy. If you can find it, flameproof crepe paper is an alternative. That's what I used as a kid instead of the expensive Estes tissue paper wadding. It comes in a very large sheet, and you can cut it into squares of whatever size you need, probably 9"x9" or so for the Big Daddy. Three or four squares should do it, it's thin and light. I used to get it at K-Mart years ago, but haven't been able to find it anywhere now. Maybe a party supply, or Michael's, Hobby Lobby, JoAnn, or some other hobby or craft store.