Estes Saturn V wraps

If you haven't thought of it already try using the Apogee method of gluing the wraps. It works better than the contact cement and is easier too.
Any one who has built one of the Apogee Saturns can tell you it works.

I have an Estes Sat V or 2 and I'd like to know more about the Apogee method. Please define. They actually suggest a spray adhesive.

I too would like to hear more about the Apogee method of attaching wraps on the Saturn V. My build is at the point now where they need to be attached. I've never applied wraps before and the sheer number and size of these things intimidates me big time. Thanks for any info!

In the video for the Saturn 1B they tell you to trim the wraps and then position them correctly on the tube. Use several srtips of masking tape to join the ends. Once every thing is tight and lined up you take a small bottle of thin CA with an aplicator tip. You apply the CA all arround the bottom of the wrap first (or the top it realy only matters that you start on one side).
CAUTION! You must use the CA sparingly if you use too much it will crack the wrap. Immidiately wipe off excess with a paper towel. Work in small sections a couple of inches at a time. Do the other side followed by the joint where the two ends meet. I just did this on my Estes Saturn V and it worked beautifully. It works even better if you sand the tube first. You just have to be careful and the results are solid.

NOTE: The aplicator tip is ABSOLUTLY NECCESARY to controll the flow of glue because thin CA is thinner that water. This only works with thin CA.

The best part about this method is that you don't have to fight contact glue to get wraps positioned correctly because they are already in position when you glue them the thin CA just wicks under all on its own. Also not likly to come unstuck in warm weather like the spray adhesive.

All credit goes to Apogee rockets and their Saturn 1B construction video.

WARNING! I have had some of these wraps melt from the wrong kind of glue. So if you have any doubt try your glue out on a piece of scrap first.

TA

Here is a Video link.

https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocketry_Videos/Rocketry_Video_37.asp

IIRC they recommend Zap "Foam Safe" CA because its a little 'gentler' on the wraps than standard CA, which of course eats foam...
Later! OL JR

I was concerned about using the can of adhesive spray I had on hand so I went for a new can I got from Hobby Lobby called Aleene's Crystal Clear Tacky Spray. It a permanent bonding spray and I did a test with a piece of scrap on some cardboard. Although it suggests that it's ready in a certain amount of time indicated on the can, an overnight wait is recommended. It' was forgiving enough to adjust while applying but after an overnight sit, it was bonded extremely well. I have no issues using this on the wraps at all. In fact, I was quite impressed.

Gary - Thanks for the info! There is a new Hobby Lobby near me and will look this up for sure. When applying the glue, Estes reccomends holding the can 24" from the wraps to prevent damage. Did you have to hold the can that far away when you applied the glue?

I actually stood about 2.5' away having already tested the spray on some scrap cardboard to know what kind of coverage I was going to get. It worked quite well but there was one issue after my application had dried. Apparently I didn't get enough of the spray adhesive on the edges where the wrap ends meet. I had started to seal the seams with the squadron putty when I noticed some separation at some of the seam areas. My guess is that I didn't get enough spray in those areas. Had to go back and re-glue them. They seem to be holding just fine though.

Because of the nature of things, I opted to suspend the wraps on a wall covered with some sheet polyethylene. This allowed me to get a better direct spray as opposed to a weird angle on a table or such, thus avoiding any accidental spraying on the opposite side of the wraps.

I used Elmer's Ultimate "All Purpose" Glue on my Estes Saturn V. I got the idea from someone else on one of the forums and it worked great. I kept a bottle of alcohol and paper towels to clean the glue as it expanded.

I just finished attaching the wraps to my Saturn using Zap CA with the small extended applicator tip. I DID test it on some extra to be sure it wouldn't melt the plastic. Line it up where you want it, use the glue sparingly in small sections and wipe off the excess immediately, worked great!

rosko_racer said:

I used Elmer's Ultimate "All Purpose" Glue on my Estes Saturn V. I got the idea from someone else on one of the forums and it worked great. I kept a bottle of alcohol and paper towels to clean the glue as it expanded.

Click to expand...

I did a combination of the two.

First I laid the wraps face down and put glue on the backs, just running the tip back and forth with lines of glue spaced about an inch apart diagonally over the entire wrap. Where there were flat places I also made sure there was some glue on those - just to be sure. I did NOT put any white glue on the edges.

Then I was able to position the wraps easily, sliding them into position and getting everything lined up. After that I used blue painters tape to tape across the seam and hold the wrap tight.

One more check to make sure everything is lined up correctly, and repositioning if needed.

When the wrap was perfect, I used odorless CA with the applicator tip and put CA around the edges, where it would wick under the wrap. Because the blue tape was across the seams I couldn't put CA on those until after letting everything dry overnight. The next day I pulled off the tape and ran a bead of CA down the seam where it quickly disappeared under the wrap.

Those suckers are glued tight and exactly where I wanted them.

***** CAUTION *****

To those of you that aren't 100% sure where the black and white areas on the Saturn V should go, let me share a mistake I made.

I'll admit here that I didn't realize (looking back I felt really stupid) when masking the rocket that the thick black and white areas that go up and down the body tube line up - either with the fin edges, or exactly in between them.

I started my masking and painting the black from the top down, and probably should have started from the bottom up.

The wraps on the middle section (the biggest wrap) have raised lines for you to mask onto, so you don't have to put tape down in between the raised lines. When I was looking for something to tell me where the sides of the black areas were supposed to be I saw that these lines were there for that reason, and followed them. WRONG. This resulted in different width black areas, and edges that didn't line up with the fins.

I finished it, and then was working on masking the bottom section - trying to line up the black areas - and realized the lines in between the black and white were supposed to be on the fin edges, and not where the wrap above was pointing them. So I did the bottom section correctly and then went back to redo some areas on the middle section so everything lined up correctly. It took a while but until now nobody knew because I was able to fix it.

But in the interest of helping my fellow man, I decided to share my mistake.

So, don't follow the raised lines in the middle wrap to determine the width of the black areas!!! The raised lines will run along the top of the white areas, but they either don't go far enough or they go too far. I know that might not make sense unless you're currently masking a Saturn V or you've made the same mistake I did. I would highly recommend starting your masking from the bottom and finish painting one wrap at a time before masking the next section.

I guess because I've used Contact Cement, wax paper method for so long it just seems easier and way less messy for appling vacuum formed or cardstock wraps. Particularly so on the BT-101 Saturn-V but works just as well on BT-60's and smaller. I tried a couple different spray adhesives with OK success but found more adhesive fingerprints with the spray stuff.

I just used epoxy to attach all the plastics....works well.

Gary Byrum said:

I was concerned about using the can of adhesive spray I had on hand so I went for a new can I got from Hobby Lobby called Aleene's Crystal Clear Tacky Spray. It a permanent bonding spray and I did a test with a piece of scrap on some cardboard. Although it suggests that it's ready in a certain amount of time indicated on the can, an overnight wait is recommended. It' was forgiving enough to adjust while applying but after an overnight sit, it was bonded extremely well. I have no issues using this on the wraps at all. In fact, I was quite impressed.

Click to expand...

What about over-spray? That stuff seems to float everywhere and makes everything tacky. (somehow, I even ended up with some in my hair!) I used a spray-on adhesive for the Quest FLV and it completely ruined the wraps. I tacked it to foam core (print side down) sprayed and ended up with a gooey mess. If the Crystal Clear is more forgiving and you can position things, I like that! The other was, if you came within proximity to the surface it seemed to leap onto it and adhere instantly. Lots of expletives, several F Bombs, and torn wraps followed.

SteveA said:

What about over-spray? That stuff seems to float everywhere and makes everything tacky. (somehow, I even ended up with some in my hair!) I used a spray-on adhesive for the Quest FLV and it completely ruined the wraps. I tacked it to foam core (print side down) sprayed and ended up with a gooey mess. If the Crystal Clear is more forgiving and you can position things, I like that! The other was, if you came within proximity to the surface it seemed to leap onto it and adhere instantly. Lots of expletives, several F Bombs, and torn wraps followed.

Click to expand...

Steve, I really don't like using spray adhesives unless I'm building a sign or something that needs a no-brainer approach to construct. I really frowned when Estes said to use it and honestly, this was my 1st take at putting this kind of plastic on a cardboard tube. I figured it wise to follow the instructions because I really would have gone with epoxy. I knew I would need to use something more forgiving than something like any instant adhesive that isn't. At least this adhesive allowed me to make adjustments before I taped the seams together.

I still have a few little tiny tack boogers I'll have to clean off but that beats having to apply these things having only 1 shot to get it right. There ARE no back up wraps in case you botch one. Yes, the spray will fly around somewhat and you will get some transfer to your hands applying these wraps. This brand, Aleene's Crystal Clear, didn't damage the wraps at all.