Dear Estes,

[[POW]Eagle159]

Estes is definitely offering some nice products and I cannot wait to by them. Here is the designer pack

LOOKS NICE!

[Marc_G]

Looks worthwhile, particularly at the Hobby Lobby or AC Supply Co discount!

Keep up the good work, Estes!

[DizWolf]

Estes is definitely offering some nice products and I cannot wait to by them. Here is the designer pack

Looks interesting. couple BT-60, a BT55 and a few smaller ones. the transitions are interesting. can't wait to see the build threads on this one

[KurtH]

Nice parts pack. I would also like to second the request for the pnc 80k I have been getting balsa ones from semroc but they are pricey.

I really appreciate the candid responses from Estes in this thread . Can you possibly post pictures of the upcoming motor retainers for the pro series 2 kits?

[JPVegh]

Nice parts pack. I would also like to second the request for the pnc 80k I have been getting balsa ones from semroc but they are pricey.

I really appreciate the candid responses from Estes in this thread . Can you possibly post pictures of the upcoming motor retainers for the pro series 2 kits?

Hobbylinc now has a picture of the pro retainers on thier site.

[KurtH]

oh nice Here is the link to the retainer on the hpbby linc site. I can save quite a bit of $$$ for my projects that do not quite warrant an aeropack.

http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/est/est9750.htm

[be69ar]

...here's am image of the new motor retainer. As can be seen in the image, this is an old beater rocket I've had for a long time. Motors were friction fit, but yesterday, I took a retainer set, roughed up the inside of the plastic thread ring and the OD of the motor tube and epoxied the works in place. I was even so motivated that I changed out the shock cord for new 1/2" cord. I was hoping to fly it today, but I lost one yesterday so I should go and look for that one first. I guess I just wanted to show what an easy replacement this can be for non retention rockets.
Mike

[SCIGS30]

Mike, Just curious but is Estes ever going to release the Sterling balsa airplane kits or is that a thing of the past? Also can we go back to the brown the body tubes?

[be69ar]

Mike, Just curious but is Estes ever going to release the Sterling balsa airplane kits or is that a thing of the past? Also can we go back to the brown the body tubes?

...as it relates to Sterling, since Hobbico purchased us a few years ago, I've not heard about any thoughts to bring it back. Toward the end of when we were producing Sterling, we were getting quotes on laser cutting and had thought to move along the same lines of what Dumas did. But kits sales were sliding off the face of the planet and no one was interested in chasing that market.
As for brown tubes vs. white...that's a wash...I have equal numbers saying they like white and others that want brown...I'm not sure I'll do anything unless costs rise significantly on one version or the other.
Mike

[SCIGS30]

Laser cut Sterling kits, man that would be awsome. I wish there was a way to get people back into the hobby. I figured I would try on the brown tube idea.

[Initiator001]

Mike,

Since you mentioned the Pro Series, will the kits be packaged in bags or boxes?

Thank you for taking the time to post on this forum.

[be69ar]

Mike,

Since you mentioned the Pro Series, will the kits be packaged in bags or boxes?

Thank you for taking the time to post on this forum.

...Pro Series kits will be bagged here in Penrose. The new launch base (PN #3552 - similar to the old NCR launch base) will be a boxed item (should be available by spring). Also, we will be updating (minor internal plastic changes) and repackaging the 2230 E Launch Controller in PSII packaging as exisiting print materials are used up...so probably sometime this summer. With the tubes as big as they are, boxes were going to add quite a bit more to the cost, so we went with 4 color panels in HD poly bags.
Probably last time I'll check this forum until next week...so a Happy New Year and thanks for your support (and questions and comments and requests).
Mike

[Marc_G]

Mike,

Enjoy your holiday.

When you get back, would you be open to some input/discussion about the 302231 Fin Alignment Guide?

Conceptually I love the design from a basic mass market perspective, but no matter how I wrap the central 13mm tube with label material or whatever, I can't get it to stay aligned in the hole in the base of the guide. It always wiggles a bit, making it unsuitable for use for any rocket that doesn't have a body tube flush with the base of the guide during fin placement (which is most of them!).

For myself, I solved the problem by getting a half-inch diameter lag screw and a proper nut for it, which when snugged down creates a 100% perfect non-wiggly base of operations. A wrap or two of tape and it is a perfect mandrel for BT-5, and with the supplied adaptors I can put fins on anything, basically, now that the vertical support is staight and non-wiggly.

It cost me I think $0.75 at Lowes for the parts; I'm sure plastic versions bought in bulk would be a couple cents per unit.

This would greatly improve the usability of the product without major design changes.

I'm happy to supply pictures etc. of the problem and my solution if you like.

Marc

[JTH28890]

Hate to ask you to highjack the thread but I would like to see some photos.

[DizWolf]

For myself, I solved the problem by getting a half-inch diameter lag screw and a proper nut for it, which when snugged down creates a 100% perfect non-wiggly base of operations.

I've had a few of these over the years. I've generally glued the 13mm in place. A bolt is a great idea I hadn't though of.

An entire jig made out of steel would be awesome, but I shudder at the thought of the cost. Lately I've been cutting alignment templates and sliding them over after tacking the fins, both with and without the jig. A set of stencils to trace on your own cardboard, in standard tube sizes and fin thicknesses wouldn't be a bad product idea.

[JStarStar]

Estes is definitely offering some nice products and I cannot wait to by them. Here is the designer pack

Hmmmm, that does look like a pretty good bundle of stuff to whip up a dozen or so rockets out of.

Thanks Mike for looking in on this thread and giving us some of the reasoning on what gets added and deleted from the current marketing lineups -- the process is a lot more complicated than we all think, we sit here and say, "dang I wish we had parts for the XXXX Rocket" but it isn't always that simple, you can't just snap your fingers and make custom-molded parts, etc etc, appear out of nowhere.

Estes definitely seems to be making a much better effort of late to address the hobby/craft aspect of the business. For quite a few years there it seemed they didn't want to be bothered with it.

Back to the topic of the Designer Pack, this one does look much more "logically" selected -- as Mike did indicate in one of his posts above, some of the "designer specials" they put out in the 90s or thereabouts were little more than a box of junk (I got one once at a clearance sale -- nose cones/adapters/motor mounts that didn't fit in the tubes, plastic payload tubes attached to nothing, etc etc ).

This collection looks like you could actually make some rockets out of it.

The 302231 Fin Alignment Guide?

Conceptually I love the design from a basic mass market perspective, but no matter how I wrap the central 13mm tube with label material or whatever, I can't get it to stay aligned in the hole in the base of the guide. It always wiggles a bit, making it unsuitable for use for any rocket that doesn't have a body tube flush with the base of the guide during fin placement (which is most of them!).

For myself, I solved the problem by getting a half-inch diameter lag screw and a proper nut for it, which when snugged down creates a 100% perfect non-wiggly base of operations. A wrap or two of tape and it is a perfect mandrel for BT-5, and with the supplied adaptors I can put fins on anything, basically, now that the vertical support is staight and non-wiggly.

It cost me I think $0.75 at Lowes for the parts; I'm sure plastic versions bought in bulk would be a couple cents per unit.

This would greatly improve the usability of the product without major design changes.

I'm happy to supply pictures etc. of the problem and my solution if you like.

Marc

Hokey smokes, I got an Alignment Guide for Christmas and I was kind of vaguely in my head thinking about the "wobbly mounting" problem and trying to dream up some way to work around it, this sounds like a pretty much perfect solution.

I guess maybe now I have no more excuse for the "fins askew" problem discussed in one of the other threads.

[GRIFFIN]

Hate to ask you to highjack the thread but I would like to see some photos.

Thread has officially been hijacked.....75 post later and I still have NO answer on the Phoenix question!!!

I like the input given though. Thanks Mike for "getting involved" I had no idea this thread would get so much attention. When I started this thread, I was just "venting" about another High price Phoenix on "Fee-Bay"

Jason
(who still needs another Phoenix)

[paul.nortness]

Thread has officially been hijacked.....75 post later and I still have NO answer on the Phoenix question!!!

I like the input given though. Thanks Mike for "getting involved" I had no idea this thread would get so much attention. When I started this thread, I was just "venting" about another High price Phoenix on "Fee-Bay"

Jason
(who still needs another Phoenix)

Seriously dude....it is the easiest kit to clone in the world. Just buy the parts on semroc, build it and order decals from sandman....end of story

[GRIFFIN]

Seriously dude....it is the easiest kit to clone in the world. Just buy the parts on semroc, build it and order decals from sandman....end of story

....I was just being funny?!?!?

[nukemmcssret]

I vote yes on these rockets. Rerelease them.

[jd2cylman]

Thread has officially been hijacked.....75 post later and I still have NO answer on the Phoenix question!!!

I like the input given though. Thanks Mike for "getting involved" I had no idea this thread would get so much attention. When I started this thread, I was just "venting" about another High price Phoenix on "Fee-Bay"

Jason
(who still needs another Phoenix)

I think it just needs some duct tape and a lick of paint and you'd be good to go

Adrian

[thobin]

OOOHHHH the humanity that crash looks brutal! I feel your Pain.

TA

[be69ar]

Thread has officially been hijacked.....75 post later and I still have NO answer on the Phoenix question!!!

I like the input given though. Thanks Mike for "getting involved" I had no idea this thread would get so much attention. When I started this thread, I was just "venting" about another High price Phoenix on "Fee-Bay"

Jason
(who still needs another Phoenix)

...Hi Jason...well I said I didn't think I'd post again until after the new year, but it is freezing cold and absolutely howling outside, so I'm chasing after some chores my wife has been asking me to do. As for your specific request, the issue is with Raytheon at the moment. We had developed a scale mini engine AAMRAM and when for permission to produce it...that was 6 months ago. Initial request looked like we could use other names as well...but at the moment, "no comment" has been their reply, so I don't know that we will be able to do either. So I wasn't dodging the question...its just an issue of us being pretty small potatoes when dealing with the big guns (OK, pun intended).
...now off to clean toliets...Mike

[GRIFFIN]

...Hi Jason...well I said I didn't think I'd post again until after the new year, but it is freezing cold and absolutely howling outside, so I'm chasing after some chores my wife has been asking me to do. As for your specific request, the issue is with Raytheon at the moment. We had developed a scale mini engine AAMRAM and when for permission to produce it...that was 6 months ago. Initial request looked like we could use other names as well...but at the moment, "no comment" has been their reply, so I don't know that we will be able to do either. So I wasn't dodging the question...its just an issue of us being pretty small potatoes when dealing with the big guns (OK, pun intended).
...now off to clean toliets...Mike

Thanks for that. I wish you and your loved ones a safe and happy new year. Looking forward to 2012 and a great year full of new products.

Jason

[Marc_G]

Hate to ask you to highjack the thread but I would like to see some photos.

OK, based on the interest this generated, I made a thread in Techniques:

http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?p=277884

This thread can now resume it's original hijacked status...

[FastCargo]

As in the case of the Classic Series we did a few years ago, I had an initial product list of 32 bring backs based on the "asked for" list. To say sales were less than what we expected...which could have been a function of not selecting the "correct" kits to bring back...but I used the total number of requests I had to justify those kits I did bring to the market. The lack of sales of that first dozen "classics" is the main reason I did not finish off the remaining kits as they were less popular from a request standpoint than the ones I did bring to market. And now, though there are some great suggestions here and in my folder, its a difficult sell to the company when we want to consider another bring back kit.

You know, this statement really is telling.

It didn't really occur to me just how small the hobby is much past the RTFs or near RTF kits/starting sets until I see things like basic 'Classic Series' kits not selling. Now, obviously this could also have something to do with timing...with the economy heading into the crapper in 2008, it couldn't have been especially good to bring out these 'new/old' kits back a few years ago.

I'm wondering how many of us would be truly shocked to see the number of kits beyond RTFs and near RTFs that are sold each year, and wonder if that will ever translate into a long term profitable model.

FC

[Initiator001]

Mike,

Concerning the Classic Series kits, I guess you could say that I would be both the best and worst customer for these products.

Best, as I am an 'old' rocketeer who fondly remembers Estes and Centuri kits from 30-40 years ago but I could not buy all of them at the time. A 'Classic Series' re-issue of these past kits would be something I would be very interested in buying.

Worst, as I would want these 'Classic Series' kits to be as much like the original versions of these kits as possible. Take the Centuri Phoenix Bird model. It had a plastic fin can and nose cone, self-sticking decals and could be assembled quickly. The 'Classic Series' version has balsa parts even though the plastic parts are available and being used in another kit (Eliminator). In the past, Estes has never shyed away from releasing multiple kits using the same parts.
I bought one of the 'Classic Series' Phoenix Bird models but I don't expect I will ever build it. Had the Phoenix Bird been released in it's 'original' form, I would have bought 3-4 of them.

Just my thoughts/comments on the subject.

[be69ar]

Mike,

Concerning the Classic Series kits, I guess you could say that I would be both the best and worst customer for these products.

Best, as I am an 'old' rocketeer who fondly remembers Estes and Centuri kits from 30-40 years ago but I could not buy all of them at the time. A 'Classic Series' re-issue of these past kits would be something I would be very interested in buying.

Worst, as I would want these 'Classic Series' kits to be as much like the original versions of these kits as possible. Take the Centuri Phoenix Bird model. It had a plastic fin can and nose cone, self-sticking decals and could be assembled quickly. The 'Classic Series' version has balsa parts even though the plastic parts are available and being used in another kit (Eliminator). In the past, Estes has never shyed away from releasing multiple kits using the same parts.
I bought one of the 'Classic Series' Phoenix Bird models but I don't expect I will ever build it. Had the Phoenix Bird been released in it's 'original' form, I would have bought 3-4 of them.

Just my thoughts/comments on the subject.

Hi Bob...you comment is noted...the PB should have had the molded fin can, but I was overrulled at that time by the owner of the company...who many remember and shall go nameless. However, since you brought up the fin can, I want to bring up the fact that we did supply the correct nose cone for the Alien Invader...which was no small feat and the rest of the line was pretty much the same except for laser cut parts...I don't think anyone misses die cut balsa pieces. And as it relates to the entire Classic Series...the sales of these across the board was very lackluster to say the least. Mike Dorffler was very involved with me on that project and he was usually pretty insistent about having the kits as close to origina status as possible. So while you make a valid point about PB, the other kits didn't do so well either...and let me tell you about all the requests we had for the re-re-re-release (I think that's the correct number of re's) of the Saturn V. Again, we spent money on the capsule tool, the vac form tool...added laser cut rings and held the retail to the last release price and after an initial shot of a few hundred pieces, it sat and sat and finally they chopped the price to move the balance. It will be a long time till that kit is seen again.
Anyway...good points...I welcome the imput....Mike

[SCIGS30]

Mike, You could have brought back the Classics with the exact same parts regardless if it was Centuri or Estes and the sales probably would not have been much different. So you would have had to bring back old Centuri tubes and parts and that would have cost Estes a pretty penny. I think what you are saying is the problem with Hobbies today including Model airplanes. People just do not want to build anymore. At my RC club almost everyone is flying RTF kits, even the old timers. I think there are 2 of us that still build. Lets face it, it is time consuming to build a rocket then take it out and fly it, if you are lucky to find a flying field. I have a feeling if the Saturn V was a RTF rocket more people would have bought it, but then yet us builders would not have been happy. So with the poor sales, does that mean the Saturn V and other Classic kits will no longer be produced by Estes? Is Estes going to go back to limited kits produced each year with more and more RTF rockets? I really appreciate what Estes has done over the last year and I buy every new kit Estes produces knowing darn well the kits wont last forever. All I can say is thank god for the small companies like Semroc that keep the dream alive for the few of us that are in the hobby for building. I am always thinking of a way to bring the hobby back, but just take a look at the youth today and their interests. All I ask for is.....get rid of the white body tubes Mike once again, thanks for keeping us up to date on the thinkings of Estes. I think there is always a spot in a BAR for the big E.

[Cosmotiger]

This thread reminded me... I should buy an Alien Invader while they are available. Replace the one I built, flew and cracked up up as a teenager. Looking back, I've realized that I did a nice job on some fairly complex kits for a 12 or 13 year old.