Dear Estes,

[be69ar]

Here's an idea.

How about just releasing the PNC-80K nose cone. That's pretty much all we need from you guys. Maybe the kits won't sell but those should do real well.

SEMROC can laser cut fins and I have the decals.

There, an easy fix!

...OK...as a general reply regarding nose cones, we have 7 nose cone assortment packs:

303160 NC-5 (5 pack)
303161 NC-20 (4 pack)
303162 NC-50 (5 pack)
303163 NC-55 (4 pack)
303164 NC-56 (4 pack)
303165 NC-80 (single)

...these are available at retail on online...is there something else you guys are asking for?

Mike

[be69ar]

@be69ar: I love and appreciate the fact that Estes still publishes catalogs. I can't tell you how much. Would you folks consider putting some descriptions back into the specs of your rocket line? A bit of "sell." No one would know of the MIRV's uniqueness unless they scoured the forums or bought the kit (just one example). I'd also like to see the rockets displayed in their relative sizes. When you enlarge or shrink a rocket to fit on a page with other non-similar (in size) rockets I lose their sense of scale relative to one another.

Just my thoughts. Keep up the good work.

...thanks for the comment and your suggestions...as it relates to adding more sell copy, we have adopted a "less copy" content format some time ago based on consumer input. Most catalog suggestions were for an image, specs and motor use of the product and how high it can go. I lot of folks told us they didn't care for the "marketing fluff" and just wanted basic info. So once again, we listened to what was being suggeted to us, perhaps it wasn't the right thing to do. I can tell you that the 2012 is almost done (a little later than planned this year) and should be available in February....Mike

[be69ar]

Any Ideas as to when the Pro Series will be available to ship?

Has Estes considered "other pro series models?"


They look sweet..

Tom

...Tom...we have a very nice Nike Smoke in 29 mm coming (new blow mold nose cone, injection molded fins, laser cut rings)...probably in the April/May time frame. As for other Pro Series kits...we have some thoughts for 2013, but we have to see how our efforts go for the this first round before committing resources to new PS II kits.
Mike

[Marc_G]

...OK...as a general reply regarding nose cones, we have 7 nose cone assortment packs:

303160 NC-5 (5 pack)
303161 NC-20 (4 pack)
303162 NC-50 (5 pack)
303163 NC-55 (4 pack)
303164 NC-56 (4 pack)
303165 NC-80 (single)

...these are available at retail on online...is there something else you guys are asking for?

Mike

Hi Mike,

We would like to be able to buy a specific type of nose cone rather than a random pack of cones for a particular BT diameter.

So lets say I want some Red Max cones. PNC-60AH if I recall correctly. Currently there's no way to order them separately. If I buy the pack of PNC-60 cones maybe I will get an AH but probably not. So please make packs of specific type cone types available.

There is a significant unmet need here. Balsa cones of all shapes and sizes are available from many sources but the plastic ones (that I often prefer) can't currently be specifically ordered except for a few of the most common ones.

So if you offered a two or four pack of for example PNC-60AH and the various other cones you would make us happy! I really want some extra mini honest john cones and some Vagabond cones!

If the packaging of these for distribution doesn't look profitable enough please consider selling them in bulk to someone that could repackage in small numbers and sell retail.

Thanks for listening.

Marc

[sandman]

...OK...as a general reply regarding nose cones, we have 7 nose cone assortment packs:

303160 NC-5 (5 pack)
303161 NC-20 (4 pack)
303162 NC-50 (5 pack)
303163 NC-55 (4 pack)
303164 NC-56 (4 pack)
303165 NC-80 (single)

...these are available at retail on online...is there something else you guys are asking for?

Mike

Yes! The PNC-80K.

[DizWolf]

Yes! The PNC-80K.

Same one I'm looking for. The current BT 80 sized cone available is good for cloning fatboys and super big berthas. The PNC-80K is currently only available with the Executioner. I prefer this style cone for scratch builds by far. It would also allow cloning Pheonix, optima, maxi alpha and other rockets.

It used to sell separately when I left the hobby in 1996. Came back recently and was shocked to see it missing.

These nosecones:

Also used on the phoenix:


I built the middle one after crashing the one on the right....Now I'm repairing the one that lawn darted, and searching for a new cone for it.

[sodmeister]

I can see now ,why kits like the maxi Pershing 1A and the V2 would probably not be re released.

A Space Shuttle full stack would be great !


Paul T

[be69ar]

Hi Mike,

We would like to be able to buy a specific type of nose cone rather than a random pack of cones for a particular BT diameter.

So lets say I want some Red Max cones. PNC-60AH if I recall correctly. Currently there's no way to order them separately. If I buy the pack of PNC-60 cones maybe I will get an AH but probably not. So please make packs of specific type cone types available.

There is a significant unmet need here. Balsa cones of all shapes and sizes are available from many sources but the plastic ones (that I often prefer) can't currently be specifically ordered except for a few of the most common ones.

So if you offered a two or four pack of for example PNC-60AH and the various other cones you would make us happy! I really want some extra mini honest john cones and some Vagabond cones!

If the packaging of these for distribution doesn't look profitable enough please consider selling them in bulk to someone that could repackage in small numbers and sell retail.

Thanks for listening.

Marc

...OK...so assortments of plastic/blow mold nose cones are not what you'd like...instead you'd like specific nose cones in small quantities (for the most part, packing singles would be out of the question...except maybe the 80 sizes)...well, I'll take that as a suggestion and see what we can do. However, be advised that it will take some time...I have existing inventory to dispose of and then there is the whole creating a BOM, quoting, ordering and shipping process to go through...it would be fall 2012 at the earlist and perhaps next winter before we could accomplish such a change...but I will look into it.
Mike

[Marc_G]

Thanks Mike for looking into it. Note the assortment packs you currently have don't need to go away... probably lots of people like the random effect. But serious builders want access to specific cones. And I understand single packs are impractical... reasonably priced 3 or 4 packs or whatever would be fine. I mean seriously ... who can build just one of their great design!!

I'm in marketing so I understand the lengthy product cycle. I suggest prioritizing special cones at the larger end of the spectrum... bt-60 and 80 plastic cones are the most different from the easily available balsa equivalents. Also the unique smaller ones like the mini HoJo cone. Biggest likelihood of demand.

Marc

[JPVegh]

...OK...as a general reply regarding nose cones, we have 7 nose cone assortment packs:

303160 NC-5 (5 pack)
303161 NC-20 (4 pack)
303162 NC-50 (5 pack)
303163 NC-55 (4 pack)
303164 NC-56 (4 pack)
303165 NC-80 (single)

...these are available at retail on online...is there something else you guys are asking for?

Mike

Yes, there are quite a few nose cones that you use in your kits that are not available in those assortment packs. We want them all. One of the great things about Estes in the sixties and seventies was that you catered to the scratch builder. Estes sold their cones individually and they were all available. As Marc_G pointed out the highly popular PNC-60AH is not available to us in those asst. packs. Sandman points out the need for the PNC-80K. I am very partial to the PNC-60RL, I can get this nose cone if I buy a Vagabond kit but it's not available to me even in the assortment pack. So yes there are more nose cones that we want to have available to us.

Those seven assortment packs offer only 12 different styles, just a fraction of the many nose cones Estes uses in their kits.

[Marc_G]

That RL style cone from Vagabond is awesome even if plagued by QC issues on the mold lines. A definite favorite!

[caveduck]

++ for individual NC type availability (fine with me if they are packaged N at a time for economic reasons). Once upon a time you could order just about any part Estes used in production; that was one of the grand things about the catalog. Now there seem to be some parts for which the only way to get an authentic part is to buy a whole kit. The random assortment packs of NCs per BT size also makes it very expensive to get a few of a desired specific type.

As a biz guy I understand the time/effort/$ required to generate new packaging, SKUs, clear old inventory, etc, but if it moves in that direction in the long run it would probably make quite a few people around here happy.

BTW thanks once again for listening to us hardcore types

[thobin]

Not just the standard nose cones the specialty ones like the interceptor and all the spaceship types that have cockpits those are what we can’t replace with the balsa cones out there today.

If we lose an alpha cone it’s no biggy. But when your interceptor nose cone floats away on an 18 inch chute and is now some were in Kansas. You only have one option, buy a whole new rocket. And your Nimbus nose cone explodes on impact on the side walk after a ejection malfunction. There is no option to fix that.

I hope you don’t think we are coming down on you. I think I can speak for all of us that we are thrilled that you care and are asking questions and really taking an interest in what we have to say, All of us grew up Launching Estes rockets, and we are looking forward to launching them till we die.

TA

[be69ar]

++ for individual NC type availability (fine with me if they are packaged N at a time for economic reasons). Once upon a time you could order just about any part Estes used in production; that was one of the grand things about the catalog. Now there seem to be some parts for which the only way to get an authentic part is to buy a whole kit. The random assortment packs of NCs per BT size also makes it very expensive to get a few of a desired specific type.

As a biz guy I understand the time/effort/$ required to generate new packaging, SKUs, clear old inventory, etc, but if it moves in that direction in the long run it would probably make quite a few people around here happy.

BTW thanks once again for listening to us hardcore types

...one final comment...as it relates to Estes of days gone by, it is extremely unlikely that we will ever get into the rocket parts business again...or more accurately, the individual parts business that was part of what made Estes "the" rocket company of the day. I can absolutely tell you that our parts business (before we stopped carrying parts) was terrible...not amounting to $5,000 a year in sales and we had a huge number of SKU's on the shelves. I know and understand its a loss to you guys, but the prior management just squashed the whole program and given the overall sales of "builders kits", I would have a hard time arguing that we should start to sell individual, small parts again...though assortments might be an option that I can look into, but while I hear you loud and clear, parts as most of you remember or would like to see again is probably not much of an option.
Have a great New Year and I do thank you for your comments and suggestions and I will continue to watch, read and respond when I can....Mike

[GRIFFIN]

...one final comment...as it relates to Estes of days gone by, it is extremely unlikely that we will ever get into the rocket parts business again...or more accurately, the individual parts business that was part of what made Estes "the" rocket company of the day. I can absolutely tell you that our parts business (before we stopped carrying parts) was terrible...not amounting to $5,000 a year in sales and we had a huge number of SKU's on the shelves. I know and understand its a loss to you guys, but the prior management just squashed the whole program and given the overall sales of "builders kits", I would have a hard time arguing that we should start to sell individual, small parts again...though assortments might be an option that I can look into, but while I hear you loud and clear, parts as most of you remember or would like to see again is probably not much of an option.
Have a great New Year and I do thank you for your comments and suggestions and I will continue to watch, read and respond when I can....Mike

Awwe-Parts-Schmarts......This thread was about the Phoenix. When will the Phoenix rise again!?!?!

J/K - Thanks for all the feedback and info. I look forward to ANY new additions to the Estes line up.

Jason

[caveduck]

...one final comment...as it relates to Estes of days gone by, it is extremely unlikely that we will ever get into the rocket parts business again...or more accurately, the individual parts business that was part of what made Estes "the" rocket company of the day. I can absolutely tell you that our parts business (before we stopped carrying parts) was terrible...not amounting to $5,000 a year in sales and we had a huge number of SKU's on the shelves. I know and understand its a loss to you guys, but the prior management just squashed the whole program and given the overall sales of "builders kits", I would have a hard time arguing that we should start to sell individual, small parts again...though assortments might be an option that I can look into, but while I hear you loud and clear, parts as most of you remember or would like to see again is probably not much of an option.
Have a great New Year and I do thank you for your comments and suggestions and I will continue to watch, read and respond when I can....Mike

Thanks for the perspective Mike. I always knew the parts business was never much to get excited about from a financial standpoint (even heard it once directly from Vern), but I didn't know it had gotten *that* small. It probably makes more sense to let the smaller players in the rocket ecology make parts for the remaining cadre of "true hobbyists". But every so often you guys make some interesting part that requires fancy tooling (think MIRV staging adapter, Odyssey NC, Saturn wrappers,...) and it gives us fits.

[Marc_G]

From my perspective, the parts business (engine hooks, centering rings, body tubes, balsa cones) is well-served with existing vendors so as a consumer I agree... stick the the relatively unique parts like the plastic nose cones particularly those not available from others!

Other than that, focus on in this order:
1. Engines!
2. kits, and
3. Nice tools like the fin attachment jig... though I've got a beef about its design!

[thobin]

I would be happy with the just replacement parts from the current kits. Like I stated before my Interceptor nose cone is some where in Kansas.

Thanks for insight. We love you and are glad to see Estes moving forward.

TA

[UrbanKnight]

...OK...as a general reply regarding nose cones, we have 7 nose cone assortment packs:

303160 NC-5 (5 pack)
303161 NC-20 (4 pack)
303162 NC-50 (5 pack)
303163 NC-55 (4 pack)
303164 NC-56 (4 pack)
303165 NC-80 (single)

...these are available at retail on online...is there something else you guys are asking for?

Mike

Even though they are mostly 4 and 5 packs, they usually only have 2 variations. I'd like to see a 4 pack that has 4 completely different nose cones.

Edit: I understand that it would be a poor business decision to produce nose cones just for that purpose, but if you already produce the nose cone for a kit, it can't cost all that much to just do a longer run and toss some of them in a bag with others... or can it?

[luke strawwalker]

...one final comment...as it relates to Estes of days gone by, it is extremely unlikely that we will ever get into the rocket parts business again...or more accurately, the individual parts business that was part of what made Estes "the" rocket company of the day. I can absolutely tell you that our parts business (before we stopped carrying parts) was terrible...not amounting to $5,000 a year in sales and we had a huge number of SKU's on the shelves. I know and understand its a loss to you guys, but the prior management just squashed the whole program and given the overall sales of "builders kits", I would have a hard time arguing that we should start to sell individual, small parts again...though assortments might be an option that I can look into, but while I hear you loud and clear, parts as most of you remember or would like to see again is probably not much of an option.
Have a great New Year and I do thank you for your comments and suggestions and I will continue to watch, read and respond when I can....Mike

I remember the builder's special, the box assortment of parts that was available for scratchbuilding. I can understand the hassle of maintaining a huge inventory of separate parts with little/no margin makes it not worthwhile when one considers the labor costs and overhead and time devoted to it, but the box assortments seems a good way to overcome most of the negatives you mentioned... say 3-4 (at most) assortments focusing on various genre's or something perhaps... say a "cockpit assortment" of cones and various tubes and spare parts assembled into a box assortment as a design-yer-own "sci-fi" rocket builder's special... maybe another one featuring all the Estes military missile cones and such, with some tubes and parts as a "military" builder's special, and another with the most popular large sport kit cones, perhaps a fourth focusing on small kit cones, both with appropriate tubes and various/sundry parts... I'm thinking just an assortment of rings/hooks/screw eyes, a couple parachute kits/streamer packs, etc... nothing particularly intricate... mainly enough to justify a profitable price point...

That would be nice to see and wouldn't seem to break the bank on inventory maintenance, time, labor, etc...

Later and thanks for everything yall are doing at the NEW Estes!

OL JR

[[POW]Eagle159]

...OK...as a general reply regarding nose cones, we have 7 nose cone assortment packs:

303160 NC-5 (5 pack)
303161 NC-20 (4 pack)
303162 NC-50 (5 pack)
303163 NC-55 (4 pack)
303164 NC-56 (4 pack)
303165 NC-80 (single)

...these are available at retail on online...is there something else you guys are asking for?

Mike

Yes, There are 4 that come in a pack....But, there only 2 different shapes for each body tube.
I would like see Estes sell nose cone packs of different nose cone shapes.(like many have said)
I love to scratch build my own rockets, but after 30 there is only like 4 different NC shapes.
Specifically, the Bt-55, -60, and -80 tubes!

[be69ar]

I remember the builder's special, the box assortment of parts that was available for scratchbuilding. I can understand the hassle of maintaining a huge inventory of separate parts with little/no margin makes it not worthwhile when one considers the labor costs and overhead and time devoted to it, but the box assortments seems a good way to overcome most of the negatives you mentioned... say 3-4 (at most) assortments focusing on various genre's or something perhaps... say a "cockpit assortment" of cones and various tubes and spare parts assembled into a box assortment as a design-yer-own "sci-fi" rocket builder's special... maybe another one featuring all the Estes military missile cones and such, with some tubes and parts as a "military" builder's special, and another with the most popular large sport kit cones, perhaps a fourth focusing on small kit cones, both with appropriate tubes and various/sundry parts... I'm thinking just an assortment of rings/hooks/screw eyes, a couple parachute kits/streamer packs, etc... nothing particularly intricate... mainly enough to justify a profitable price point...

That would be nice to see and wouldn't seem to break the bank on inventory maintenance, time, labor, etc...

Later and thanks for everything yall are doing at the NEW Estes!

OL JR

...your comment about the "builders special"...or designers special that we did for a long time brings up a new topic. Back in the day, a designers special was usually made up from a lot of left over parts from various production runs. Sometimes they were pretty neat, other times they sucked depending on what was left to stuff in there. I am pleased to tell you that PN 1980 a brand new "desingers Special" will be available in April. It was planned for the end of 2011, but we have been moving to tri linqual packaging on all our products and converting the Rocket Guide to 3 languages has taken some time (we want to get the text and images squared up). Now for the really good news, this box contains 110 or 113 speparate parts...not random left overs, but parts like green adapter rings, laser cut centering rings, an assortment of 18" body tubes, nose cones that fit those body tubes, couplers, engine hooks (standard and D), motor tubes, chutes, balsa sheets, some paper template sheets for shrouds...well, you get the idea...there is a lot of very usable material in this new set that I think will help fill the gap for some missing parts. If you look at just the body tubes, engine hooks, motor mounts, this set can build at 8 complete rockets. But if you look at the overall parts count and an individuals creativity, you could look at hundreds if not thousands of possible combinations. Bad news...won't be cheap...current retail is set at $79.99 and we are trying to hold that through 2012...but if you look at a cost per item, I think it averages out to about $.72 a part...which will be good for some things (nose cones, body tubes) and not so good for other parts...like engine hooks. I hope you can see the overall value and real changes that I/we made to the old "designers special" to make this a useful addition to your building materials...not just a hodge podge of left over crap (oops, sorry, shouldn't use such unflattering terms).

Mike

[DizWolf]

That's exciting news. Even at @$80, that's not a bad deal.

[Marc_G]

Just make sure Hobby Lobby picks it up! 40% coupon makes $80 list more attractive.

Mike- while you are at it, would you have any comment on what's going on at the Micheal's craft stores? I used to buy a lot of Estes stuff there, but all the ones near me in the Indianapolis area have done three things:
-Gotten rid of all Estes kits except for starter sets, offering only ready-to-fly rockets.
-Changed from the routine engine packages to engine flight packs containing wadding at several dollars more per pack than the regular engine packs; sorry, wadding isn't worth $2-3 per three-pack
-Dramatically reduced their engine selection: no boosters or 24 mm engines, and only a few 13/18 mm engine selections

For this reason I don't buy Estes stuff at Micheal's any more, which is a shame because I used to buy a lot of kits and engines there. I have several stores near me.

Other people report some areas of the country have Micheals that still carry the complete line. Compaining to Micheal's corporate or store managers has not yielded either an explanation or positive change...

Marc

[be69ar]

Just make sure Hobby Lobby picks it up! 40% coupon makes $80 list more attractive.

Mike- while you are at it, would you have any comment on what's going on at the Micheal's craft stores? I used to buy a lot of Estes stuff there, but all the ones near me in the Indianapolis area have done three things:
-Gotten rid of all Estes kits except for starter sets, offering only ready-to-fly rockets.
-Changed from the routine engine packages to engine flight packs containing wadding at several dollars more per pack than the regular engine packs; sorry, wadding isn't worth $2-3 per three-pack
-Dramatically reduced their engine selection: no boosters or 24 mm engines, and only a few 13/18 mm engine selections

For this reason I don't buy Estes stuff at Micheal's any more, which is a shame because I used to buy a lot of kits and engines there. I have several stores near me.

Other people report some areas of the country have Micheals that still carry the complete line. Compaining to Micheal's corporate or store managers has not yielded either an explanation or positive change...

Marc

Hi Marc...well, the bottom line is Michaels felt that a smaller, E2X/RTF rocket selection was better for their customer and adjusted their business model accordingly.
Mike

[Marc_G]

Bummer, but understandable. Thanks for the reply. It's great having you here, by the way

[UrbanKnight]

You say that it can build 8 rockets, which would come to $10 per rocket. Not bad at all for a variety of scratch built fun.

It's a shame that a craft store would find it better to stick to finished or almost finished products, but I have noticed that they keep putting more and more finished crafts "handmade in (insert 3rd world country here)" instead of parts and instructions. That's the world of instant gratification we live in.

[F=MAn]

Please cancel the maxi alpha 3 it (is a piece of junk.) 1 F79 and all the fins fell off????? And reinstate the phoenix.....

[Marc_G]

You say that it can build 8 rockets, which would come to $10 per rocket. Not bad at all for a variety of scratch built fun.

I think when it comes out, it should kick off a contest where each person gets to craft rocket(s) using the parts in the box and must use ALL parts, with no parts other than what's in the box...

[SCIGS30]

Estes is definitely offering some nice products and I cannot wait to by them. Here is the designer pack